After many years of finding jazz annoying in the extreme, Cerys Matthews played some John Coltrane on her Sunday 6Music show the other year and I’ve started regularly listening to it on the internet. Unsettlingly, I like it, and some of the other stuff that various algorithms throw-up. I hate trad, which I see as a good sign.

So where should I go from Coltrane and Davis to dip my toe further in?

No hardcore, super self-gratifying stuff, please – I have not grown a goatee yet 😉   And definitely no trad!

I’ve recently let the Mattson 2 into my life, seems like they started a little retro-surf, but have recently released a version of A Love Supreme. Well worth a look.

Generally can’t stand it myself, if I was going to listen I’d go for new stuff like Badbadnotgood, Glenn Astro, Jun Kamoda… but nah.

Erm Jazz? Or Jaaaaahhhhzzzz?

I’m no fan of the Jaaaaaahhhhzzz style, but can recommend some cool stuff in the more “song/mellow” stylee..

Twin Danger (sax/guitar player from Sade and a sublime Jazz singer)

For modern stuff, I’m quite enjoying GoGo Penguin, Neil Cowley Trio, Brad Meldhau, Esborn Svensson Trio, the Bad Plus and so forth.

From Davis and Coltrane I’d try Charles Mingus, Herbie Hancock, TS Monk, Charlie Parker, Ornette Coleman, Sonny Rollins, and to bridge the two try Wynton Marsalis, Joshua Redman, Pat Metheny, Freddie Hubbard etc etc.

A few names there to get you started!

A recent compilation that may provide some paths:

Jazz on the corner.

Not a trad fan either – I was in part brought up by my grandfather who grew up during, and was a massive fan of, the big band/swing/bop era, so in large part that’s the music of my childhood.

Personally I graduate to the later stuff – not “modern jazz” as such (mostly wankery IMO), but a lot of the names mentioned above.

Jim Hall is one guy I’m a massive fan of. Highly respected but very understated. Beautiful music, irrespective of style. I saw his last UK gig before he died – a little old man shuffled onto stage on sticks and in comfy slippers, was helped into his guitar and suddenly transformed into a musical icon who captivated and commanded the audience by playing possibly the quietest set you’ll ever hear – but it worked – nobody dared make a sound. End of the gig, he was helped out of the guitar again and turned back into somebody you wouldn’t expect to see outside of an old peoples home.

Trio, Big Blues and the collaborations with Bill Evans and Paul Desmond are all excellent albums.

From Davis and Coltrane I’d try Charles Mingus, Herbie Hancock, TS Monk, Charlie Parker, Ornette Coleman, Sonny Rollins…

I think Jakestar has made great suggestions here and will take a listen to the others.

When people say the don’t like traditional jazz, what specifically do they mean? Some early jazz is very good. Fats Waller, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Louis Armstrong to name a few.

Thelonius Monk solo piano stuff is my favourite flavour

I think Jakestar has made great suggestions here

I like that – I’m going to nick it!

When people say the don’t like traditional jazz, what specifically do they mean?

I think they mean the Dixie/ragtime stuff AKA ‘trad’ – chaps in boaters and stripy shirts playing banjos and clarinets played by old buffers in slightly racist pubs in the shires. 😉

Nice

When people say the don’t like traditional jazz, what specifically do they mean? Some early jazz is very good. Fats Waller, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Louis Armstrong to name a few.

Yeah, that stuff 🤣

It’s ok in small packets, in amongst other stuff but it’s all a bit too noisy for me.

That and the banjo stuff 🤮

You mean The James Nance Quartet aren’t Trad Jazz? Dammit

I’ve always liked a bit of bebop/Blue Note stuff – Jimmy Smith in particular.

I was around for the Giles Peterson/BazFeJazz led ‘revival’ of latin/Funky/Bepop jazz in the clubs and weekenders – loved it.

(sorry, someone had to)

Dave Brubeck, Oscar Peterson, Buddy Rich

I found Herbie Hancock’s Fat Albert Rotunda to be a particularly effective gateway drug to all that sort of thing.

Nice

I think they mean the Dixie/ragtime stuff AKA ‘trad’ – chaps in boaters and stripy shirts playing banjos and clarinets played by old buffers in slightly racist pubs in the shires. 😉

Ah, can’t argue with that – I’m not sure that’s really jazz though.

Highly recommend getting hold of the Ken Burns series on Jazz (it’s on PBS on Amazon I think).

It can be a bit po faced but great pictures and music with some brilliant interviews. Covers most of the big names up to the fifties

Also gives you a sense of why Armstrong/Ellington/Basie etc meant so much.

You may like this, Origami Harvest by Ambrose Akinmusire,

Coltrane and Parker.

Brad Mehldau The Art of the Trio and Keith Jarrett might be of interest.

Gato Barbieri and Stan Getz for some South American rhythm.

Then revisit Frank Zappa and the Hot Rats Band. Jean-Luc Ponty and Sugercane Harris together hmm nice.

Then re listen to Astral Weeks.

What goes around comes around.

Jazz that is not too trad or free that I enjoy are,

Dexter Gordon

Chet Baker

Charlie Parker

Dizzie Gillespie

Dave Brubeck

Lester Young

Bill Evans

Such a big genre and quite a personal one but well worth being open minded and exploring.

Try anything on blackjazz label

Sun Ra

Leon Thomas

Etc

Turn on, tune in, drop out

Giles Peterson has a jazz special this Saturday on 6 music from Maida Vale if you’re interested? Niiiice.😀

Thanks STW. Plenty of avenues to explore there.

Oscar Peterson and Benny Goodman are worth a try too.

Some good suggestions up there. It is of course hugely personal.

I’d recommend,

Medeski,Martin,Scofield and Wood

Courtney Pine

Art Pepper

Lester Young

Herbie Hancock

Lee Konitz

Kenny Drew

Once you get into it there’s SO much to explore!

Isn’t this what all the young, hip, beard wearers are groovin to these days?

It was on a rap site I go to. But it ain’t rap.

Within the last week this middle aged unhipster has been enjoying listening to a bit of Kamasi Washington and reminiscing listening to Method Man on Tim Westwood R1. The young hipster lines are more blurred than you think DezB.

The Kamasai Washington stuff is great – the Epic is a fantastic album but really needs some serious listening.

I’ve also been listening to his bassist Thundercat (Stephen Bruner)’s solo stuff – REALLY weird but there are some great tunes in there as well.

The young hipster lines are more blurred than you think DezB.

Actually, they’re not. It’s just a personal thing.

I love this album –

But without the vocals, just can’t listen to it.

Considering going to see Saul Williams on Monday. He’s backed by the Dave Murray Quartet, who make my toes curl on their own. Can’t help it, it’s just what my ears tell me.

Yeah, Thundercat’s another one. Actually makes me laugh how bad I find it. 😀

+1 traditional jazz is not jazz

+1 Jazz is pretentious otherwise it is not jazz.

Evidence?  Easy:

Rock is raw (article 1a)

Jazz is jizz (article 1b)

If still unconvinced of the veracity of this argument then further evidence can be found in the following documentaries:

‘Jazz Club’ – The Fast Show

‘Spinal Tap’ – the movie

Case rested.  Next weep:  Rap is Real

^^ Anyone?? 🤨

I think I have it all covered 😉

OP don’t forget afrobeat.  Where the jazzle meets the shizzle.  It’s poppin’, and I ain’t mockin’!

I found a jazz/hip hop crossover (I think) that I like. Malvern will be impressed 😆

Gorge innit

Thanks DezB (I think), will try it out later on the cans.  BUT… if it turns out to be some generic and uninspiring trip-slop hastily assembled with looped samples on Garage Band by a boredroom committee of ironic beards and a macbook pro, late one afternoon in a West Coast suburban coffee shop…

…then I will find you. I will cut tyres.

#fordebussy

Tyres are bloody expensive these days!