STW 2017 EU in/out referendum thread

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  • STW 2017 EU in/out referendum thread
  • ohnohesback
    Member

    I expect the SNP to let Cameron stew in his own juice.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    What and not campaign on such an important issue for Scotland 😉

    The SNP made much political capital out of Labour siding with the Tories. TBH I am not sure the Tories are that unhappy with the SNP surge as it plays very much into their hands so they may not wish to do anything to weaken them

    Pigface
    Member

    Why would you vote out?

    dbcooper
    Member

    I’ll be voting IN. Only a fool thinks the EU has been bad news for us.

    Premier Icon ads678
    Subscriber
    Premier Icon DaRC_L
    Subscriber

    dbcooper +1

    Premier Icon grizedaleforest
    Subscriber

    In. It’s beyond me why people think we’d be better out.

    In. But I’d rather we were a proper whole hearted participating IN rather than the one the fringes moaning about everything IN that we seem to be currently.

    Ro5ey
    Member

    Note sure how any of the OUT posters can be pinning their colours to the mast yet.

    The whole point of an EUref is for it to be used as a bargaining tool for renegitiation within the EU

    Our German friends will buckle and the UK will get better terms.

    Then you can make your decisions

    mlbaker
    Member

    I’ll vote IN as I can’t see any negatives of our current situation. Can an OUT voter explain their reasoning for that choice?

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I think the British people will follow the Scottish model;

    1) Vote to remain in the Union

    2) Overwhelmingly elect a separatist party at the next available opportunity.

    lemonysam
    Member

    Can an OUT voter explain their reasoning for that choice?

    I’m pretty sure it was something to do with Romanians and podiatrists last time it came up.

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Subscriber

    Can I change my vote for IN, but with Greece OUT.

    I’d like a return to cheap Greek holidays please! 😀

    Premier Icon andytherocketeer
    Subscriber

    In, but I’d have to give up making good use of the rights we have as EU citizens to return home to be eligible to vote.

    Given that shedloads of other member states have also elected significant numbers of candidates on the basis that something needs to be reigned back a bit, I’d hope Cameron can lead the renegotiations.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    Why would you vote out?

    EU Tax treaties not fit for purpose, huge abuse by Ireland and Luxembourg with Junker rewarded for personally diverting many billions in EU tax revenues offshore with top EU job

    Stunning political cost overhead with totally unnecessary EU parliament and bureaucracy

    Very clear the ultimate aim is for an EU superstate, the euro has proven that this will be an absolute disaster. EU Army 😯

    EU Human Rights act not fit for purpose, we are unable to deport criminals.

    Open borders, freedom of movement. We are only as secure as the weakest link and that’s very weak.

    Premier Icon irc
    Subscriber

    Out. Save the net 11 or 12 billion per year we pay. Get control of our borders. Stop UK courts being second guessed by European Courts. Get control of UK waters for fishing.

    Premier Icon mintimperial
    Subscriber

    Well, on a purely selfish level, if we left the EU my business would fold pretty much instantly. So: in.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Stop UK courts being second guessed by European Courts

    How often do you think that happens, out of interest?

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    Really looking forward to seeing Cameron and Salmond together on the same platform on this issue, it really is Better Together. Perhaps the campaign will be called “Better In than Out” 8)

    2 years to go, so how long till the first opinion poll ?

    I’ll be voting out but expect the result to be in.

    teamhurtmore
    Member

    No point until we see implications of Grexit

    We could be dealing with a very different animal

    EU based on its freedom pillars – tick
    EU based in common currency – cross

    Debate will miss the core issues. If cameron is sensible he will go glacial on the whole issue. Tories only ever self destruct on Europe

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    @mintimperial – they would be trade agreements, Germans still want to sell us cars etc

    @tmh, there won’t be a Greek exit as there will a further fudge, again proof the super state will be a dogs breakfast.

    If Cameron is smart he will attack EU sponsored tax evasion, very hard for Merkel and Hollande etc to argue against. Add in some border controls and he’s golden.

    Further out reason, no VAT on food. It’s inevitable the EU will pressure the UK to follow the lead of most other EU members and have no VAT exemptions. 7.5% VAT on food seems to be about the average and out 20% VAT rate is 1%-2% lower than most

    Premier Icon hatter
    Subscriber

    As somebody who works in international trade, IN. The costs are outweighed tenfold by the fact that goods and services here have easy access to the largest free trade area in the world.

    If we flounce out do you think we’ll be allowed to keep that access? The central EU powers will have a distinct interest in making our lives harder to deter others from doing likewise.

    Whilst we may eventually get some kind of agreement it will be neither guaranteed nor permanent, hardly the kind of thing to commit to a major investment on.

    When the US and EU finally put ink to paper on the TTIP we’ll be even more isolated.

    It’s going to be painful, very painful.

    Sadly I suspect the debate will be informed more by the flag waving hysterics of the Daily Mail than carefully considered economic conclusions as these aren’t nearly as much fun when it comes to writing lurid headlines.

    hora
    Member

    I’ll be voting IN. Only a fool thinks the EU has been bad news for us.

    WHEN Greece exits the EU who do you think is going to pay for the subsequent EU crash and all the quantitative easing thats already been injected and will be again?

    EU is a very sick puppy. Healthy its a no-brainer to stay in. This way and the way it expanded taking in alot of dodgy members – do you really want us to be ‘in’?

    P-Jay
    Member

    In,

    There are some sound, good economic reasons why the EU is good for us, but…

    Let us never forget they paid for a big chunk of Bike Park Wales too!

    mogrim
    Member

    muppetWrangler – Member
    In. But I’d rather we were a proper whole hearted participating IN rather than the one the fringes moaning about everything IN that we seem to be currently.

    This. And as an ex-pat in Spain I’d be an idiot to say otherwise. And I do think the UK would lose a massive amount if it decided to leave, both politically and economically.

    munrobiker
    Member

    In. There are practically zero benefits to leaving.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    If we flounce out do you think we’ll be allowed to keep that access? The central EU powers will have a distinct interest in making our lives harder to deter others from doing likewise.

    The big EU countries export more to us than we export to them, the economics are stacked towards them accommodating us, it’s inevitable IMO

    @mogrim, people would still live and work in Europe and Europeans would still do so in the UK. We’d just have to fill in some forms first. The Spanish economy benefits from UK tourism and people buying property there. We have never been at the centre of the EU, we joined late and we stayed out of the Euro. Its run by the French and the Germans politically, always will be.

    jekkyl
    Member

    Shake it all about.

    donald
    Member

    The SNP would like the rUK to vote to leave and Scotland to vote to remain.

    The union would then be over.

    How they position themselves on the referendum will be very interesting.

    mogrim
    Member

    @mogrim, people would still live and work in Europe and Europeans would still do so in the UK. We’d just have to fill in some forms first. The Spanish economy benefits from UK tourism and people buying property there. We have never been at the centre of the EU, we joined late and we stayed out of the Euro. Its run by the French and the Germans politically, always will be.

    Always will be if the UK just sits there whining from the sideline. The French and (particularly) the Germans aren’t that popular in the EU, they’re leaders by default. There’s no reason the UK couldn’t also be at the head of the table.

    Premier Icon hatter
    Subscriber

    The big EU countries export more to us than we export to them, the economics are stacked towards them accommodating us, it’s inevitable IMO

    Three points:

    A: It’s not inevitable, remember the “well screw them” attitude that many in England were displaying in England last year when it looked like Scotland might leave. The political class of the central powers is likely to have a very similar attitude towards us if we go. Heads may cool in time but initially it’s going to be very frosty.

    B: Any trade treaty will meed to be negotiated and renewed, it is not set in concrete for the foreseeable like EU membership, if I was planning a 30 year investment (building a factory for instance) would I want to rest it’s success on a treaty that is either still being negotiated or may no longer be in affect by the time the factory opens? Investment hates uncertainty and this arrangement enshrines uncertainty.

    C: Whilst the UK is indeed a major EU export market, if the EU sign the TTIP free trade agreement with the US we’ll be frozen out of the largest trading block in history and keeping us sweet will be somewhat of a minor detail in comparison. Especially if we continue to be a pain the in rear for the EU politically.

    konabunny
    Member

    EU Human Rights act not fit for purpose, we are unable to deport criminals.

    Jesus wept, not this rubbish again.

    1) There is no EU Human Rights Act.

    2) Do we really have to go beyond 1) or can we just assume that the person who made the statement was apparently too distracted by Teresa May’s shoes to pick up anything more from her speech than something about a cat and a murderer?

    mogrim
    Member

    we are unable to deport criminals.

    Not to mention this bit is untrue, too – the last time there was a big fuss about this it was because the criminal in question had small kids who also have rights. If he’d been single he’d have been deported without any fuss.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    @mogrim, the kids can leave with their parents or not, their/their other parent’s choice

    @kona if what you say is true then you can win that argument during the referendum, up till now there have been far too many examples which show otherwise.

    munrobiker
    Member

    2 examples? Is 2 examples of human rights being upheld in cases where someone was going to be sent to be tortured when they were really, really bad people that horrific compared to the many, many, many times the Convention has been used for good in keeping families together, not overworking people, preventing people from being tortured, executed or similar?

    I am staggered at the cruelty of people who think the Convention is a bad thing.

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