Stopping turkeys voting for Christmas

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  • Stopping turkeys voting for Christmas
  • Premier Icon manvstarmac
    Subscriber

    My student daughter has a friend in a low paid zero hours job. She rents her house and struggles to pay to keep the car she needs to get to work on the road. She feels she’d be better served by a Johnson government and is planning to vote conservative.

    The EU referendum saw plenty of similar stories where people’s votes appeared to be ‘turkeys voting for Christmas’

    My daughter is desperate to get her friend to understand the choices she has. Is there a ‘best way to explain’ that can sway people whose views seem entrenched or is it simply a waste of my daughter’s time?

    Premier Icon eddiebaby
    Subscriber

    Have you considered she may have a valid point and it is her right to have it?

    IIRC Labour have a better (compared to Tories) policy on zero hour jobs in terms of conditions, plus they have a better minimum wage target. Labour also want to scrap tuition fees IIRC. Not sure on their respective housing stance.

    daveylad
    Member

    No-one likes a preachy leftie. If they wish to remain friends then she should respect her views.

    I’m not going to comment on whether uour daughter’s friend is right or wrong, because like so many other turkeys, I just don’t know enough, and what I do know is probably influenced by the articles I read and the friends I keep.

    And I think that will always be the problem, current day politics needs to be a mandatoru part of the school curriculum, kept as impartial as possible and teaching people to discen between facts and spin.

    In the adult world newspapers somehow need to be policed to control fake news etc. and television media needs strixt controls over balance and impartiality.

    But all this is impossible to achieve because it needs to come from the top down, and it strikes me that no politician would want an educated populace being presented with the actual reality of what a crowd of shits, charlatans and shysters we have in power!

    Point out the Conservatives have been in charge for 10 years and she is in the state she is in with them in charge. What is gonna change with a compulsive liar in charge that seems to have found the contents of Fort Knox somewhere.

    Premier Icon cynic-al
    Subscriber

    If they wish to remain friends then she should respect her views.

    WTF happened to discussion?

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Johnson has a cheeky smile & a can-do attitude

    For some people that’s enough.

    It’s obvious that his big headlines about easing austerity are just pre-election lies

    It’s obvious & well documented that Johnson has a long history of lying and breaking promises to his own MPs, his constuents, the electorate etc etc

    It’s obvious that so far Brexit has caused inflation that’s hit the poorest hardest, taking £bns from the economy & £1000s from the pocket of every family

    It’s obvious that Johnson is prioritising a US trade deal that will benefit educated graduates in the service economy at the cost of our agriculture & manufacturing, and that his MPs have specifically said they want to use Brexit to remove EU protections from agency & gig economy workers

    But he has a cheeky smile & a can-do attitude

    He will win.

    Premier Icon stumpyjon
    Subscriber

    I’m not convinced she’d be a whole lot better off under Labour if we still come out of the EU. The EU is probably key here, it will help protect her employment rights (anything Jezza brings in can be reversed or watered down later and Labour is more interested in Unionised workforces rather than individual gig economy workers) and if the economy tanks after Brexit, and it will, she’ll be one of the first trying to survive on benefits which will be being cut.

    I’ve noticed people saying educated graduates won’t be hit so hard by Brexit, they are the people most likely to benefit from freedom of movement (apart from Sun reading expats on the Costa Del English and they generally deserve what’s coming), wages will reduce and so will the number of opportunities. Ok they might be still more likely to be in work but with a reduced income and prospects. There are very few who will genuinely benefit from Brexit and that’s Boris and his destructive mates.

    Premier Icon Rubber_Buccaneer
    Subscriber

    My daughter is desperate to get her friend to understand the choices she has. Is there a ‘best way to explain’ that can sway people whose views seem entrenched or is it simply a waste of my daughter’s time?

    Is it your daughter, her friend or both that have the entrenched views that need swaying?  Or is it you?

    taxi25
    Member

    My student daughter has a friend in a low paid zero hours job. She rents her house and struggles to pay to keep the car she needs to get to work on the road. 

    Does the friend see this as a permanent situation ? People often see the Conservatives as being the best party to meet their asperations. Labour might raise the minimum wage but people are hoping for much more that that. Whether they get it or not is another matter.

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    It’s obvious that his big headlines about easing austerity are just pre-election lies.

    TBH didn’t May announce she was getting rid of it 🙂

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I’d want to know why she thinks that. She might have a valid reason. But valid or not you can’t change someone’s mind without knowing why they think what they do, it’s like trying to give directions when you don’t know where the person is

    dudeofdoom

    Subscriber

    TBH didn’t May announce she was getting rid of it 🙂

    2 different tory governments including Johnson’s have declared that it’s already over.

    brownsauce
    Member

    I dont understand why the Op & daughter think its their job to change the political leanings of someone they know because it differs from their own view ?

    I certainly wouldnt interfere with the voting intentions of any persons in my life out of simple respect for the individuals own beliefs

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    Tell her that Farage is a true patriot and vote for him.

    Split the hate vote.

    Premier Icon ajaj
    Subscriber

    Ignore politics. If someone you know was considering investing in the Woodford Patient Capital Trust would you advise against it because it’s not in their interest?

    Would that be considered preaching? Would it be trying to change their mind? Is that a bad thing?

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    I dont understand why the Op & daughter think its their job to change the political leanings of someone they know because it differs from their own view ?

    I certainly wouldn’t interfere with the voting intentions of any persons in my life out of simple respect for the individuals own beliefs

    I find that quite sad. Politics Is about normal people talking/debating/arguing with each other. Politics is just another term to describe the big and small picture stuff all around us that makes a difference. It is not just about ‘professional’ canvassers selling their ideology to us.To discuss any of these things when there are possible options and different parties vying for power (be that local or national) have known different takes on what would be best for all of us is going to in effect be an attempt to ‘interfere’ with someone’s voting intentions. So you are not prepared to talk about (or debate if you will) economics, defence, education, the health service or event the frequency of bin emptying with anyone ever? Because that is what you are saying. If that is the case however do you come to a meaningful point of view of your own?

    I find it a quite simply pathetic attitude and one that says pretty poor things about the state of society and also the backdoor from which some very dubious folk have snuck into power. It’s beholden on all of us to discuss these things amongst ourselves and challenge muddle head thinking whatever you believe that to be.

    If you are ever going to change the political allegiance of an individual is entirely different!

    taxi25
    Member

    . Politics Is about normal people talking/debating/arguing with each other.

    Not for most people, in many ways politics is increasingly becoming a personal matter, much like religion is in this country. The last thing they want is evangelistical politicaly active people preaching at them. Certainly with brexit in particular it’s becoming a taboo subject.

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    Not for most people, in many ways politics is increasingly becoming a personal matter, much like religion is in this country. The last thing they want is evangelistical politicaly active people preaching at them. Certainly with brexit in particular it’s becoming a taboo subject

    You are not wrong – but I think this is a dangerous path. I think the problem is that was have lost the art of debating without taking it personally. And that views have to be black and white when in truth grey is probably the right response. Brexit for example – only the daft would hold the opinion that everything about being in the EU was preferable or everything terrible. But parody politics has taken over.

    brownsauce
    Member

    Discussion & debating is one thing , but thats not the case here as its clear from the O.P. that he is setting out with the sole intention of changing how someone may vote because he/she thinks they know whats better for the individual concerned.

    Thats a million miles away from idle chit chat in a works canteen or internet forum.

    brownsauce
    Member

    So you are not prepared to talk about (or debate if you will) economics, defence, education, the health service or event the frequency of bin emptying with anyone ever? Because that is what you are saying. If that is the case however do you come to a meaningful point of view of your own?

    I didnt come close to even infering any of that so stop making crap up to embellish your own non argument.

    Premier Icon manvstarmac
    Subscriber

    In response to the post two above this one, it’s not me, but was a question posed by my daughter.

    And it’s not her desperate to change her friend’s mind. In my original post I phrased it as “ My daughter is desperate to get her friend to understand the choices she has.”

    The headline is mine, so it’s probably fair to read into that that I don’t think she’d be best served by another Tory government, but my daughter simply wants to try and get beyond her friend not considering any other parties’ policies because “Corbyn is a communist” and “the Liberals don’t ever get in”

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    I didnt come close to even infering any of that so stop making crap up to embellish your own non argument.

    You did. ‘I certainly wouldnt interfere with the voting intentions of any persons in my life out of simple respect for the individuals own beliefs’ to me smacks of being too frightened of confrontation to discuss or debate any subject that could be construed as having a political angle because it might offend. Which is a bit crap.

    brownsauce
    Member

    You did.<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>‘I certainly wouldnt interfere with the voting intentions of any persons in my life out of simple respect for the individuals own beliefs’ to me smacks of being too frightened of confrontation to discuss or debate any subject that could be construed as having a political angle because it might offend. Which is a bit crap.</span>

    Purposefully twisting my words way beyond original intent , well done you

    and how you’ve extrapolated “being too frightened” from a clear position of taking a respectful and non-interfering stance sounds like straw clutching.

    but knock yourself out if you believe that ,.makes no difference to me

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Anyone who isn’t landed gentry or funnelling their millions of pounds in earnings through dodgy tax havens, who votes Tory deserves everything they get.

    It’s basically a stupidity tax. Like Brexit.

    TheBrick
    Member

    Is she voting for bo Jo and co or against Cobin?

    Personally I am not voting Tory but I also couldn’t bring myself to vote for Corbin as he is pie in the sky not a realist. You daughters friend maybe someone who is as much as voting for someone votes against someone else. This is unfortunately a common thing in UK politics, and not helped at the moment by Corbin being so crap.

    I reckon the title of this thread is spot on. Can’t believe people on minimum wage zero hour contracts could vote Tory. Must be the Daily Mail or BBC news influence on folk that Corbyn can’t be trusted.

    I think the best thing to do is not preach just drop in some facts about minimum wage policies, universal credit, zero hour contract policies etc to break through the media brainwashing.

    These things shouldn’t be taboo it’s just a discussion no need to get emotional about it. Though sometimes that’s easier said than done.

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