Bought a 2013 Kinesis Decade Virsa for £80 just to mess about on wasn’t expecting much but absolutely love the thing although favourite steel ht was my old Charge Duster least favourite was the Inbred – back is still recovering from that one !!

cheers guys, in truth i think a full susser is rhe right tool but i dont want to shell out the best part of 3k for what effectivley could only be around 12 rides per year.the rest of the time im on the caad or my road or cx bikes.

ive never rode anything less than a 70degree head angle and skinny ish tyres (all xc bikes)

so im hoping something slack, 130ish forks, a dropper and fat trail tyres would be great for the lakes (without spending a small fortune)

so im hoping something slack, 130ish forks, a dropper and fat trail tyres would be great for the lakes (without spending a small fortune

This is what I’m looking for. Though not just steel, I’ve been looking at the orange p7 or clockwork 120/evo or the two cotics. I want something to go up and down, but something that can be punished, I’m a big guy and not that good a rider! This has been a good thread for me!

Bird zero is in that ballpark!

being a tart mine needs to have steel tubing.

trying to figure out the stanton range of bikes.

cant seem to link to instagram for the pics, but @dialledbikes
couple of pics of the 2017 Alpine – due Feb
pic of the PA in testing

ok, so mike is now in the usa, but…

Sharkattack
Slightly offvtopic, that one tidy workshop, garage or tidied for photo shoot 😀

Pipedream Sirius 631 with 140mm dual air revs

hmm, never seen these before: last bikes http://www.last-bikes.com/archive/fastforward-flow-29.html

whats the differences between the Stanton bikes?

Stanton Sherpa, good for just about anything. Steep, rooty, enduro style trails or long xc style days out. Got mine built up with 29″ wheels, but will take 650b+ as well.

For anyone not fussed about steel, the current Crush is a mint trail bike with geometry and kit sorted for the Lakes. If it has to be steel, P7.

Am I correct in thinking the sherpa doesn’t have rack mounts?

Sefton

Do a range of three bikes that can be had in steel and ti variants. Well apart from slackline at the moment.
All designed as hardcore fun bikes that are pretty slack and designed to be fun down hill but still capable going up or trail riding. They do have a bias.
So most gravity orientated is the switchback, most xc is the Sherpa and the slackline sits in the middle. Give them a call as they’re happy to discuss your needs and advise. They do have a chart on the website per model that highlights the attributes.

Hope that helps.

whats the differences between the Stanton bikes?

As above really.

The Sherpa seems to be a cracking bike (I know a couple of people with them and they love them). I’m a big fan of my Ti Switchback even if it is in reality a bit too hardcore for what I do on it.

The new Slackline is supposed to be a 27.5 trail bike being a tad steeper than the Switchback with slightly longer chainstays. The 853 frameset is really nice to ride – it’s light, springy and very comfy. If I’m totally honest it’s probably just as nice as my Ti frame to ride. Dan lent me one for two weeks and I was very very taken with it. It climbed better than my Switchback but was still fun descending with (I didn’t like the plus tyres though, it was nicer with standard tyres).

But yes, as pointed out, you will have to pay to use the Reynolds name. However on small batches of bikes it’s probably more cost effective to to this than to develop a custom tubeset. If Stanton go on to conquer the world I’d expect to see a cheaper Slackline made by the hundreds with custom-butted 4130 tubesets and costing under 400 notes, but until that day I’d still say that they represent reasonable value for money.

But equally, plenty of very high end builders use ‘unbranded’ tubing. Curtis used T45, Last use 4130 ing the fastforward, Chromag make no claims whatsoever about what their tubing actually is for the Surface beyond ‘custom drawn’ and that’s a £1050 (+tax) frame!

I’d actually argue that pound for pound an unbranded tubeset may well be better, an XL frame is going to leave a lot of wasted material in the butts if you have to make it from stock reynolds tubing that has to work in XS frames too, likewise the XL bike may benefit from a tweeked tubeset anyway to gain stiffness.

Still, it is horses for courses. If you want a cheap-as-chips hardtail with decent numbers then On-One have you covered.

Still think this hits the nail on the head though, the way the tubes are stuck together has far far more impact than what those tubes are.

Which is why I’m slightly disappointed that On-One seem to have gone off the boil with new frames. There isn’t a Stanton / Last FF / Chromag Surface equivelent in their range and that seems to be where hardcore hardtails have gone.

There isn’t a Stanton / Last FF / Chromag Surface equivelent in their range and that seems to be where hardcore hardtails have gone.

doesn’t the deedar fit that brief? it’d suit me albeit its got a too-long seattube for my tastes

My old Mk2 Cotic Soul cost £485 in January 2010. In June 2015, its replacement – a Cotic Soul 275 – cost £499.

Since Brexit, the cost has gone up to £549 (10%) for an equivalent Soul, with some minor changes – or £599 for the version with a rear thru axle.

Given the context, that seems fair to me.

What about rim and tyre widths for general Lake/trail centre stuff? I run 2.1″ on the caad but this is for racing.

whats a good all-round tyre (tubeless) (like the racing ralph is safe bet for racing xc)

Since Brexit, the cost has gone up to £549 (10%) for an equivalent Soul, with some minor changes – or £599 for the version with a rear thru axle.

So the same as Stanton who were described as overpriced… Their frames are in the same ballpark as others. With inflation etc steel frames have become more expensive.

What about rim and tyre widths for general Lake/trail centre stuff? I run 2.1″ on the caad but this is for racing.

whats a good all-round tyre (tubeless) (like the racing ralph is safe bet for racing xc)

I’m running Easton ARC30’s (30mm inner width) with Maxxis Minions (2.3) on my hardtail. Not the lightest but seem tough enough and are not too draggy.

I’m looking at the DeeDar at the moment, as my Patrol is out of action until a spare part arrives from Windwave.

i’m 6ft 2 and ride an XL Patrol with 35mm stem so would have to go for the 19″

I came off a large Transition Scout with 50mm stem and the geo seems pretty similar to that.

Its a shame they don’t do an XL equivalent size, but for £233 its pretty well priced for a second bike!

I’m hoping they drop the 19″ to £144, like they’ve done with the smaller sizes (matt black colour scheme) as that would make it even better value!

I’d actually argue that pound for pound an unbranded tubeset may well be better, an XL frame is going to leave a lot of wasted material in the butts if you have to make it from stock reynolds tubing that has to work in XS frames too, likewise the XL bike may benefit from a tweeked tubeset anyway to gain stiffness.

The problem there is you don’t actually know what you’re getting. As in the above example, it could be an incredibly well thought out and spec’d custom frameset. Or it could be done using bog-standard 4130/T45 tubes spec’d by one of the Tai companies, which then sits firmly in the quandry you describe. I suppose at that juncture it comes down to whether you trust the company specifying the frameset. Going back to Stanton, Dan claims to talk to Reynolds a lot – I’d hope that means he’s getting good advice.

I’d also argue a decent builder should be spec’ing tubes to fit the bikes being built, to avoid excess internal material around the butts (and to increase/decrease tube diameter if applicable). This can be done with both off the peg generic and branded tubes. Now call my a cynic, but I assume most companies will try and squeeze everything they can from a product to maximise the bottom line – in terms of buying a bike frame, this means unless I learn otherwise I assume that the bare minimum has been done to hit the product description. Therefore if a frame is ‘custom butted 4130’ I assume that it’s either single or double butted 4130 – which is a great material – but is ultimately a relatively basic frame, unless there’s some obvious fancy gubbins going on to increase tyre clearance or make more vertically compliant stays (which obviously costs to set-up and construct). Compare that to True Temper, Reynolds or similar where you can find out the exact spec of a tube, I appreciate the added level of transparency and details on material. However this privilege does cost.

Still think this hits the nail on the head though, the way the tubes are stuck together has far far more impact than what those tubes are.

I think the benefit of better tubing is subtle, but there. I think the size of the tubes probably has a greater effect on the ‘feel’ of the bike, because obviously the bigger the tube the less it flexes. Saying that, having owned a fillet brazed frame in the past I’d never own another – by all accounts it’s a far stiffer method of joining than TIG welding, and the frame had all the spring of a brick. Probably great for a TT bike, less so for a steel hardtail.

However, as with all these things I think it’s the sum of parts – there’s compromise everywhere and you have to decide what compromises to make based on your requirements.

Easton Arc 27s with 2.3 Maxxis on my P7. I put a biggish ding in the rear rim but it’s held up ok – no leakage from the tubeless tyre. Really no point having weak rims or lightweight tyres on the back of a hardtail like that, especially in the Lakes and Pennines. Back wheels get properly hammered.

Saying that, having owned a fillet brazed frame in the past I’d never own another – by all accounts it’s a far stiffer method of joining than TIG welding, and the frame had all the spring of a brick. Probably great for a TT bike, less so for a steel hardtail.

I’ve never, ever heard that one before. And never experienced it in real life. Apart from long head tubes, a frame is almost made up of perfect triangles – you could pin joint the corners and they would still remain triangles, so I can’t see how having a bigger fillet made of less stiff material (brass is about 1/3 that of steel) is going to make them significantly stiffer.

Tube size makes a difference. As does shaping of the tubes. On my kids frames, I make the seatstays out of tiny 12.7mm tubes, “snake” them quite a lot around the tyre, and also don’t fit any kind of seat stay bridge. That s-bending then allows the tube to “compress” slightly (it is actually mainly bending / buckling rather than compressing). Even then I’d be sceptical about how much it can be felt – a long, small diameter seat post probably makes more difference. In reality I’m using the small tubes just to save weight because kids will never break them or trouble it in terms of pedalling stiffness.

No idea if people are really using different butt lengths in XS / XL off the peg frames. I usually buy different length down / top tubes if I’m making kids bike vs CX bike vs susp. forked 29er, but there are maybe at most 3 lengths available in a given tube and inevitably some overlap.

Same for off the peg tube sizes – a 14″ Inbred still has massive 35mm top and down tubes – mainly so it will pass the fatigue tests just in case someone heavy and short fits a huge fork to it….. I’ve seen a number of custom builders that specify the chosen tubeset / design is only warrantied for the original person they made it for.

Cotic Bfe here. Done natural lakes rides, trail centres, xc and commute most days and its the best bike I have ever had. Had a Canyon Spectral previously but full suspension just doesn’t do it for me as an all round bike.
Its light, fast and cheap. Built it up for around £1350 with 140mm revelations, Sram 1×11, xt brakes, dt swiss spline tubeless wheels (not pictured) and a reverb all new or nearly new parts. Highly recommended.

for a real budget bike (you might find it outdated but i love it, fun, nimble and cheap)
buy a merida matts tfs/hfs trail frame or a bike
get a decent kit on it:
rs revelation/pike/suntour aion/ x fusion velvet/sweep
shimano new drivetrain and brakes in sale price (deore/slx 1*10 or 2*10)
find a used, good wheelset with a proper inner width
add a gravity dropper

result: very cheap fun bike

45650b

Love it

yeah its not from Uk and not steel but worth a mention
(reply for my post about the merida)

Mmmm

again clearly not UK but just because……

Got the Ragley Piglet 2 frame on offer from CR, put together with random bits cobbled over the years. Nice low centre of gravity, good fun 🙂

Mk1 853 Prince Albert in the shed, not ridden in a while as I gave it to my son who isnt riding it, will need to take it out 🙂

Mk1 solaris bought off here last year as an upgrade to an inbred. Its very similar in some ways but i reckon a couple of gears lighter. 6’2″ on a large with 70mm stem, i keep looking at the mk2 and the sherpa, but might settle for 120mm forks on this (currently 100mm rebas). Very capable bike gets more use than the fs down here (sussex). I can’t imagine doing all day lake district rides on it though, i need more skill compensation for when i get away from the soft rolling south.

Stanton Slackline MK2 here and it’s an absolutely brilliant little beasty 🙂 such a blast to ride .