Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
  • Steel frame disc road bike bike, or upgrade current one…?
  • butcher
    Full Member

    I’m unsure what to do…

    Currently have a steel framed ‘winter’ / do-it-all road bike. Cheap and cheerful, but has served me well. However, it’s now done well over 10k miles. Paint is peeling off the carbon forks and corrosion is a worry. Slightly concerned about rim wear even though hubs are running ok. Chain is starting to slip, so needs chain and cassette at very least. And if I’m spending money, a few other bits could do with refreshing too…

    To be honest, it wouldn’t cost a whole lot to refresh the bike in its current state with rim brakes, and I could have it running like a brand new bike with wheels, fork and groupset for around £300.

    However I’m not a fair weather rider, and regardless of the few times they’d be needed there have been times when discs would have been a huge benefit. So I’m thinking if I go that route I have two options:

    1. A ‘mullet’ setup, running a disc up front only.

    The problem with this is sourcing a cheap wheelset with disc hubs and rim brake compatible rims, as well as a reasonable priced fork. I’m struggling to find either. So it strikes me that it may be worth looking into option 2.

    2. Buying / building a complete bike.

    More than likely the most expensive option. The thing is I like the geometry I’ve got. For example the Kaffenback frameset is going very cheap at the mo, but by all accounts it is not an exciting frame. And having a number of bikes I have no interest in introducing something that doesn’t inspire me to ride it. So unless there is something out there genuinely fun for not a lot of money, I think I will be going for option 1.

    Just looking for any ideas on what to look out for really. Any good deals, etc.

    This would be an Audax style bike. Comfortable for all day riding, but still nimble enough to feel quick, even if a little heavy (I don’t mind carrying the weight, so long as geometry is good).

    Riksbar
    Full Member

    Genuine question, why do people use steel for winter bikes, when the roads are covered in stuff which corrodes steel, surely these days carbon makes more sense?

    butcher
    Full Member

    I’ve probably seen alu corrode worse than steel in the winter tbh, and carbon…well, I’m sure it doesn’t corrode in the same way, but I personally think it’s more vulnerable to accident damage and potential catastrophic failure. You know where you’re at with steel. They may corrode, but it will take many years of horrendous weather.

    And I like the look 🙂

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    gfrew88
    Free Member

    I have a 2016 Genesis equilibrium disc for sale. It’s an XL £450.

    butcher
    Full Member

    Would be after a small or medium depending on bike! Probably small.

    tobymc
    Full Member

    Mango Point AR?

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Depending on budget, my Condor Fratello Disc is still a thing of joy and beauty. Not light, not cheap, but comfy.

    iainc
    Full Member

    My Croix De Fer fits that bill for me, setup with 105 group, and comfy tyres. It is not much slower than my carbon defy over a local hilly route.

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Sorry to be the luddite/downer here, but think very carefully if you want discs. I’ve been on a bit of an anti-disc campaign recently because the discs on my commuter are horrendous in the wet, squeel like banshees! So much so that I just hate to ride the bike in the wet now and take out a cheaper bike with rim brakes instead.

    A previous disc road bike did the same (Salsa Vaya with BB7s) and my dad just doesn’t ride his new be-disced Giant because of the brake noise, although in his case I suspect contamination from leaky seals.

    The sort of consensus I have gleaned from complaining about it here and elsewhere is that

    A) Yep, some brakes just do that
    B) If you regularly get some heat into them (i.e. hard braking on big descents) they might improve.
    C) Shimano RS785s don’t do it, apparently.

    But for me life is just too short to try and find the holy grail of quiet disc brakes, so my next do-it-all, all weather steel road bike will be non-disc 8)

    atlaz
    Free Member

    My road discs squeel in the cold for about the first second after I’ve pulled the brakes whilst they warm up and only then if I’m braking hard. If I’m just slowing slightly for a corner they’re fine.

    reggiegasket
    Free Member

    so my next do-it-all, all weather steel road bike will be non-disc

    are you on drugs? Really? For day-in day-out riding the idea of suggesting rim brakes is just nonsense. Discs perform better, are more consistent, are safer in terms of braking performance and rim wear, cheaper to run, easier to maintain. In every single measurable way they are better.

    UrbanHiker
    Free Member

    iainc – It is not much slower than my carbon defy

    I’d be interested in more info on these timings? I’ve been trying to quantify different bike speeds for some time, but struggling to get info. Best so far was road.cc (i think, could have been GCN though) did a piece on youtube, comparing a £250 halfords job with a £sky’s the limit set up. Over 10miles difference was 17% if memory serves.

    iainc
    Full Member

    ^^^^ over a 25 miles hilly loop from home, I am on average 1hr 20 mins on summer road bike (Defy Advanced Pro 2 with 25c GP4000’s). Same loop on CDF with 35c CrossSpeeds averages 6-7 mins slower, so about 8%. If I swop to 28c road GP4000’s that comes down to closer to 5 mins slower than the carbon summer bike.

    UrbanHiker
    Free Member

    Great, ta. That fits right in with my thinking, which is that roughly speaking one road(ish) bike to another makes <10% difference.

    Of course the real problem is that although 10% doesn’t sound like much, that could be over an hour in an all day road ride.

    Sorry for thread hijack.

    Stevet1
    Free Member

    Sorry to be the luddite/downer here, but think very carefully if you want discs. I’ve been on a bit of an anti-disc campaign recently because the discs on my commuter are horrendous in the wet, squeel like banshees!

    Why should road discs squeal more than any others? Is it the road grime? Or maybe new-to-discs users are more likely to contaminate them? My commuter has BB7’s fitted which are great – stop on a dime, hardly ever squeal, need the occasional tweak to balance the pistons due to the design but 100x easier than fiddling with rim brakes getting the toe in right etc etc.

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    are you on drugs? Really?

    Sadly no, perhaps if I was stoned I wouldn’t care quite so much about the horrible noises my bike was making when I braked. Could get my dad stoned too and then maybe he would stop phoning me asking how to stop HIS brakes making horrible noises all the time 😀

    There seems to be an element of ‘Emperor’s New Clothes’ about some people defending discs, either you think I’m making up a bunch of problems, or that I somehow have some sort of agenda against an inanimate bike component? I loved discs on my MTB, would never have gone back to rim brakes.

    For day-in day-out riding the idea of suggesting rim brakes is just nonsense.

    True, for genuine, day in, day out, rain or shine, 1000s of miles a year type riding, the benefits of discs probably do outweigh the disadvantages. But I don’t do that, and I’ll bet the majority of people don’t do that. For two or three times a week, 45 minutes there, 45 minutes back, commutes on the flat, I would suggest discs are *possibly* not the answer. Even for weekend warrior, 60miles a weekend type riding, they maybe aren’t the answer, although at least at the weekend I would be riding somewhere with hills that might actually warm the brakes up…

    Discs perform better, are more consistent, are safer in terms of braking performance

    Funny that, I did the Bealach Mor and the Fred Whitton sportives with 105 calliper brakes, in the pissing rain. I also did the Bealach Mor the following year with disc brakes, in the pissing rain. The only difference was that with callipers, I had to drag the brakes a little going into steep descents to dry the rim off and achieve good braking. With the discs, I had to drag the brakes a little going into descents in order to warm the discs up and prevent ‘the squeel’.

    As an aside, isn’t it supposed to be dangerous to drag disc brakes too much on long descents, as the pads glaze and/or the fluid overheats? Sounds safe.

    cheaper to run, easier to maintain.

    Not if you’re replacing pads all the time because they’re getting contaminated. And easier to maintain? I’d agree perhaps they require less maintenance, but not easier. My own SRAM Level Brakes and my dad’s Shimano M355 brakes are impossible to align correctly, and I’m using an alignment gauge, and they’re relatively new brakes. So both of us are putting up with rubbing brakes (audibly rubbing, I’ll concede they’re probably not slowing the wheel down much). Also, despite not braking much on my usual commute, one of rotors has a big enough wobble to rub the pads. If it was a buckled wheel it would be simple to fix, five minutes with a spoke key. But wobbly rotors require far more pissing about with adjustable spanners and guesswork (mind and degrease the spanner first so as not to contaminate the pads! 🙄 )

    In every single measurable way they are better.

    How about ‘joy taken in riding bike?’ as a measure? Because despite having this wonderful new (to road bikes) technology, I take far less pleasure in riding my bike with disc brakes than I do in riding my bike with rim brakes.

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Steve, I don’t know, I think it’s more because the braking that I do on my road bike is infrequent and not very hard (flat tow paths for the most part). I guess if I was doing proper rides, i.e. with hills etc, the brakes might be a bit better because they got properly used. But even then, there would be miles in between the hills where they didn’t get used, and the actually big descents might not actually demand any hard braking if there’s no junctions or traffic.

    Also on an MTB they get coated in gritty mud more often, and probably heated up way more often.

    This is why I’m not saying ‘all discs on all bikes are awful’ I’m just saying that people are maybe a bit quick to say that discs are the solution on every bike.

    deepreddave
    Free Member

    I’ve shimanos hydraulic discs on my HT, they squeal.
    I’ve bb7s on a 29er, zero squeal.
    I’ve trpspyres on a new road bike and they were silent in the dry but squealed first time out in the wet and modulation felt poor.
    2 out of the 3 occasionally rub audibly and need the brake to be pulled to recenter whilst all 3 rub at the front under cornering/out of the saddle pedalling.
    I’ve just accepted they have their issues.
    PS I’ve seen a few Genesis Equilibrium 30s from 2016 at c50% rrp. The last one an ex display at ukbikedepot in small but think it sold last week. Pretty good price for steel, 105 and full shimano hydro. Might be worth hunting one down.

    flange
    Free Member

    I agree with 13thfloormonk and started a thread on the very subject recently. Given a choice I’d not go discs again, although I’ve just ordered some 785’s to replace the TRP’s on the GT in an effort to fix the poor braking and horrendous maintenance that they require. Ironically, the rear caliper on the new brakes seems to have a fault and 785’s are currently out of stock with Madison so I had to use a rim-braked bike this morning to commute in on. It was SO much nicer to ride…

    If I were the OP I’d be inclined to spend the money on a new group set, wheels and forks.

    djglover
    Free Member

    Ridden almost 3,000 miles this winter on a Mason Definition. I wouldn’t go back to rim brakes on a winter bike. I would also highly recommend the bike, including the longboard guards, it keeps you and the drivetrain clean and dry. All Ive had to do is swap to a new chain and the bike looks like new still. I would expect it to be just about thinking about replacing the transmition components and brake pads at 10k miles.

    Not cheap, but I figured I was riding so much in winter I would rather do it on something nice

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Good example from djglover there, I doubt I’ve managed 3000 miles in the last two years! 😳 Would probably be happier maintaining disc brakes with that sort of mileage rather than rim brakes.

    I also suspect that if you’re dedicated enough to put in 3000 miles over the winter you’re probably less likely to get disgruntled by creaks n’squeeks or just aren’t the sort to get annoyed by them in the first place!

    Again, horses for courses.

    Back to the OP though, Butcher – if you’ve done 10k are are only slightly concerned about rim wear I would take a massive guess and say maybe you aren’t braking much/often/hard/in wet gritty conditions, otherwise your rims would be much more worn. Suggests to me (but I’m biased, see above!) that maybe you wouldn’t use the discs hard enough in grotty conditions to see the benefits.

    Or maybe you could get lucky and buy one of the miracle sets of RS785s that don’t leak/squeek or need any maintenance…

    drofluf
    Free Member

    I’ve got an Open Pro rim on a disc hub and a Cotic Roadhog fork sitting idle that I may be persuaded to part with

    djglover
    Free Member

    I would also add, that living in the dales, my rides are generally very hilly, c100ft per mile, so disc brakes get a good workout every ride. On the occasions I’ve been out on the flat, especially when there has been salt down, there has been squealing. But I’ve never noticed any degradation of performance. The other massive benefit is that I can run lightweight aero rims in winter. Although that may be negated with the longboard guard and a 28c GP4S 😀

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    I know I’ve said this before but commuting in Edinburgh would result in my BB7s getting a little loud and slow to react. A fortnightly ride down a hill on the way to work and getting them hot for 10-15 secs sorted it every time.

    butcher
    Full Member

    Back to the OP though, Butcher – if you’ve done 10k are are only slightly concerned about rim wear I would take a massive guess and say maybe you aren’t braking much/often/hard/in wet gritty conditions, otherwise your rims would be much more worn. Suggests to me (but I’m biased, see above!) that maybe you wouldn’t use the discs hard enough in grotty conditions to see the benefits.

    Second set of rims so far… Most of my local riding is at least 100ft per mile with steep technical descents on grotty country roads. The brakes see plenty of use so I don’t think that’s an issue.

    I do totally get the noise thing though. I have a disc braked CX bike, which has the occasional squeal, but even just a little dirt in them, and the constant rubbing… It’s not something I fancy on long road rides, but I’m hoping the brakes will generally run cleaner and quieter on the road.

    I’ve got an Open Pro rim on a disc hub and a Cotic Roadhog fork sitting idle that I may be persuaded to part with

    Ideally hoping for a matching wheelset and a carbon fork. Unless of course it was a massive bargain.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

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