Steck attacked on Everest

Edit, say there is a weather window, does that mean indy climbers have to sit back because a commercial company is fixing rope for “their” summit day?

I’d expect that rope-fixing would normally need some sort of weather window. Just seems to be convention that people hold fire for a few days while the face is rigged. You’re right though, the interests of the commercial expeditions do come first, which isn’t exactly spot-on with the ethics of mountaineering. But that seems to be the Everest way. If indy climbers are not happy with these conventions and timetables, there are plenty of other faces and challenges on other peaks.

Here’s a summary of the way the big commercial trips view Everest, and what led to this from Jon Griffith, which also goes some way to explain why they were on the face when they “weren’t supposed to be”:

A very influential character (sorry no names right now) has asked the Ministry of Tourism to have written on every permit that climbers are not allowed to climb before the fixing team. If this happens it means the only way you can climb Everest is by climbing in a nice big track and on fixed lines with tons of people. It also means that any teams who want to climb something (in alpine style) apart from the Normal Route will not be able to acclimatise in advance before their ascent. It is insane, but it shows the attitude towards this mountain.

But that seems to be the Everest way. If indy climbers are not happy with these conventions and timetables, there are plenty of other faces and challenges on other peaks.

I’m still not quite clear what right the big commercial expeditions have to dictate terms to independent climbers who’ve also paid their permit to be on Everest. I mean you could equally say to the people going on the commercial trips that there are plenty of other mountains to climb.

the pro climbers view…tim emmet

“I’m pretty shocked by the Everest saga with Jon Griffith Ueli Steck and Simone Moro. Jon and Ueli are very good friends of mine and respectful people. Simone is considered to be one of, if not ‘the’ most experienced Himalayan climber in the world, he has visited Nepal 43 times, he is a helicopter pilot and offers free rescue flights to climbers on Everest and the surrounding mountains. Together they have more experience in the Alpine environment than anyone other team I have come across. Moving quickly and efficiently without disturbing others is an integral part of Alpine climbing, especially when climbing without ropes. A skilled climber can climb ice without knocking any down, most other can’t. I totally support these guys and I strongly believe that they were courteous to the Sherpas while climbing near by. Just the fact that they were there, climbing solo, next to the Sherpas who were using and fixing ropes, triggered this outrageous reaction.

In the past, I have heard a few stories of wealthy westerns who have invested large sums of money in hope of reaching the summit of the Highest Mountain in the World. Unlike many other situations in life, here money can not ‘buy’ your way to the top. Unsuccessful ascents have resulted in abusive behaviour and bad language towards the Sherpas, where clients ego’s are bruised and money is lost when the ‘goal’ is not achieved.

Out of all the climbers I know, none would do this. Understanding when to say no, taking responsibility for your own actions and making calculated decisions are the key to climbing longevity. It seems the unexperienced ‘want to be’s’ don’t know how to respect the mountain and the people that live and work there. I think these people form an integral part of the problem. Ueli, Jon and Simone just paid the price for it.”

Seems it’s one rule for the big commercial entities and another for the small guys.
You really do get the feeling that they consider it their mountain at times.

I can’t tell which group of people you’re describing as the “small guys” – the local Sherpas or the celebrity climbers.

Trouble is, the only things anyone can see now are the accounts of those who were there.

From the last page, shame we are only getting about half of those reports out.

A skilled climber can climb ice without knocking any down, most other can’t.

Makes me smile, a skilled climber can, but cannot control everything – it’s not the matrix…..

Sounds like this will run and run on climbing forums like wheel size and trail centres do in here.

It seems the unexperienced ‘want to be’s’ don’t know how to respect the mountain and the people that live and work there. I think these people form an integral part of the problem. Ueli, Jon and Simone just paid the price for it.”

Seems a bit unlikely that the superrespectful mountain gurus people would be the target of a Michael-Douglas-in-Falling-Down brainmelt caused by disrespectful wannabes abusing Sherpas, and that all of the Sherpas simultaneously would irrationally lose their minds.

I mean, you don’t have to convince me that a bunch of Nepalese local yokels are going to be more or less rational than my own accursed bunch of heather-botherers, but that cod-psychology explanation from someone who wasn’t there seems a bit unlikely, don’t you think?

No

Folk popping up as “character witnesses” aren’t really adding much to the debate. Lots of folk thought Jimmy Saville was a really nice guy.

The difference here is that folks are popping up to give their experience of whether the climbers involved were capable of climbing without causing a danger to others and how they interact with the Sherpas. I didn’t see too many character witnesses giving their personal experience of how Jimmy behaved when left alone with young girls (at least not in a positive sense).

Anyway, isn’t bringing Jim into it covered by the extensions to Godwin’s?

whether the climbers involved were capable of climbing without causing a danger to others and how they interact with the Sherpas

were/could/can/might
Speculation, not wanting to come down on either side but the full story doesn’t seem to be out there. If you weren’t there then you probably don’t know. Maybe someone should get the sherpa’s on twitter

I’m only a lowland climber but from what I’ve read, the crux (pun intended) seems to be that Steck / Moro /Griffith didnt attend the expedition briefing where the tourists expeditions agreed with the sherpas not to climb while they were setting the lines.

Steck’s team weren’t required to, they werent one of the tourist climb teams but independent. As others have said they are clearly some of the most capable climbers on the planet and need very limited support from Sherpas. So they climbed and then the events unfolded and it all exploded.

Reading between the lines the fight here is really the control the sherpas have over the climbers on Everest. They dont control/input to independent teams that havent engaged them.

The government issues climbing permits. If anybody should co-ordinate the tourist season then this is where it should happen. Some coordination seems sensible in such a death zone.

Just commenting on the validity of character witnesses in this case, mike. From all I know of these climbers (not people I know personally, but I know people who do) some of the suggestions of how they behaved really don’t ring true.

Everett is a sacred and dangerous place that needs respect on both counts. Perhaps it’s time to rethink the balance with the commericalisation of the place?

Kenny Everett a sacred and dangerous place – theres likely some truth in that typo 🙂

+1

I can’t tell which group of people you’re describing as the “small guys” – the local Sherpas or the celebrity climbers.

Anyone trying to climb independently (i.e. not with the big commercial groups) is a small guy IMO.

I know how daft it sounds calling Steck et al “small guys” in a mountaineering context, but in terms of weight/clout on Everest, they are out gunned by the commercial entities.

I think that footflaps version of events sounds the most plausible 🙂

I’ve just watched an interview with Steck on ntv. They also showed some footage of a several commercial expeditions and had Messner to comment as usual. They panned the classic route and the reaction of my family was the same as Messner: increasing disbelief as the pan went down and the ant line became ever denser to the point it was a solid traffic jam over several hundred metres. They showed Steck’s film footage from just before “the incident” – textbook technique with no more than a bit of ice dust being raised by the front pointing.

Steck came over very well, Messner too, the commercial expedition types had a mobile phone in one ear, a radio in the other and came over as estate agents trying to sell the last house in a chain. If I had to choose one balanced, reasonable human being to climb a mountain with from those shown on the programme it would be Steck.

There’ll make it worse if this happens…

Ladder on Everest to make it easier..

That sounds great. Once they get an elevator put in I might give it a go myself 😀

Well the Chinese ladder was there for over 30 years… Only got retired in 2008

Not putting a ladder in might discourage people and keep the numbers down, and therefore make it safer, of course…

went to Steven Venables lecture recently on Everest…….wonderfultalk but Everest has become a commercial nightmare, unsure how Nepal will develop, seems to have missed some critical points.

Commercial companies and the base camp trek is a cash cow/yak…..as for the sherpas, great folk on the whole but as with all countries had an issue with one or two who tried to rip us off.

Overall on the side steck on this one.

Purely by accident I came across an exhibition of photos from the 1953 exhibition while wandering along the south side of the Thames this afternoon.

Well worth a visit if you are in the vicinity – a stark contrast with the stories we’re used to seeing now.

Its in a gallery at the bottom of the Oxo tower : http://www.coinstreet.org/whatson/exhibitions-and-events/film-club-january.html