There are a few cholesterol and statin related threads on here, and there are certainly some enthusiasts in favour of statins. I am not one of them 🙁

I’m keen to know how people have gotten on when having conversations with their doctors about side effects. When docs are little more than well-intentioned, legalised dealers these days, I wonder how best to combat the inevitable pushback?

My experience is that the statin that I’ve been on for circa 2.5 years has progressively:
*Made me stupid
*Killed my ambition
*Capped my fitness, which I’m now finding very difficult to regain
*Obliterated my T/libido

I’m looking forward to getting off it and trying to get some vigour back. Reassure me 🙂

Eat more Brazilian nuts as that might help.

docs are little more than well-intentioned, legalised dealers these days,

My experience is that the statin that I’ve been on for circa 2.5 years has progressively:
*Made me stupid

i think you might be confusing cause and effect.

I would strongly suggest that you take a look at Dr Malcolm Kendrick’s blog and read his books too.

Funny, I recently had some blood test results which showed a TC (total cholesterol) at 6.7, and a risk score of just over 10, so just inside the WHO guidelines for statins. Doc (GP) wanted me to go on them without so much as a consult.

So I asked to talk to someone about it, and have just this evening seen the practice nurse who does not share the doctors blasé view, and recommended trying dietary changes first, and we’ve made an appointment to re-do the bloods at the end of March, to see what difference there is.
Her comment was “you really don’t want to go onto statins unless you cant avoid it – they’re horrible and the side effects can be quite nasty”.

Most interestingly, she has high cholesterol herself, so knew an impressive amount about it.

So… you trust the nurse, rather than the doctor? I can see a way of making a huge saving in NHS budgets.
FWIW I don’t think the side effects of statins include all those things the OPs mention. Perhaps he is in someway unique?

A good point, but it doesn’t feel like it’s about trust. More that the reading I’ve done in the intervening period seemed to suggest that statins are not risk-free, and don’t work for everyone, which is at odds with the doctor not even wanting to see me, and glossing over the risks, whereas the nurse had a more considered approach.
All just in my own opinion, and I only have a sample size of 1, of course.

I’ve been on statins as well as other medication for a good few years now..
It might sound a little blase but never once have I looked at what possible side effects any of my prescribed pills might have as I’m a firm believer that subconsciously you play up to them..but that’s just me ..and I feel no different whatsoever from how I felt prior to taking them ..just a little bit older ..

A good point, but it doesn’t feel like it’s about trust. More that the reading I’ve done in the intervening period seemed to suggest that statins are not risk-free, and don’t work for everyone,

No drugs are risk free. Some people do have side effects, but millions of people take statins with no ill-effects whatsoever. The nurse describing them as ‘horrible’ doesn’t sound terribly professional to me & seems pretty emotive. Having said that: I am surprised the GP doesn’t even want to see you, especially with a score of 10 which makes you pretty borderline. That doesn’t sound terribly professional either. FWIW I’m on low dose atorvastatin which I went on after my wife read the literature (surgeon) & chatted to her cardiologist friends who were on them and described them as a life-enhancing drug. (Don’t spend your life anxiously worrying too much about what you can eat)

Statins do have significant sideffects and I believe these are quite common. However they are also significant lifesavers

Different ones suit different people

In you position I would be having a conversation with my gp

For what it is worth I refused them at moderate risk. Many folk would think that stupid

When docs are little more than well-intentioned, legalised dealers these days

Possibly one of the most offensive things I’ve heard in a while.

BTW my Pops ignored his (and my – I’m a doc if you’ve not guessed from the above) docs advuce about statins for his high cholesterol for any number of reasons he could find. He had a massive heart atrack 3 months ago with 2 of his 3 main coronary arteries blocked off when an unstable plaque ruptured. He’s exceedingly lucky to still be alive. Oh, and hes taking statins. And several other drugs now too as a result of the acute event and the stents they had to put in him.

You make your chouce and you live with the consequences

Statins do have significant sideffects and I believe these are quite common.

Depends how you define common. If you measure side effects as a percentage of people taking them, they’re a remarkably safe drug that get a terrible press for no good reason. I see loads of people who take statins and lots of people erroneously attribute non-specific symptoms to their statins. A much smaller number actually do have side effects. Interestingly, people are always quick to blame the statins, even when they’re on a whole host of other tablets which are often far more likely to be culpable for a specific side effect. I blame the Daily Mail.

That said, because millions of people take them, the burden of side effects is relatively high across the population so it pays to be vigilant.

Statins for the primary prevention of heart disease (that is, in people who have not had a cardiovascular event of some description) are fairly contentious and the number of people needed to treat to prevent one heart attack is pretty high (of the order of 70-100). So I’d be quite relaxed about people in that lower risk group deciding not to take them – although only if they’ve given it proper thought and aren’t just put off by scaremongering news stories. But if you’ve had a heart attack or a stroke or are very high risk for another reason, please give them a try!

Just wanted to say welcome to the forum op.

This forum comes up on Google on the most diverse of subjects doesn’t it.👍

Op
Also look out for loads of misinformation and woowoo about statins

Take your information from good souo

Possibly one of the most offensive things I’ve heard in a while.

It’s the internet where keyboard warriors abound – where I did go wrong with my deliberately provocative statement was in failing to qualify it. Not all docs are like that, and not all people suffer side effects. I’ve been lucky and had some great gps, and I’ve also had some shockers (I’m old and have moved around a lot).

What is a real and troubling issue is the way doctors are educated to rely upon patent formulas, and without deep training in fundamentals… like say, nutrition.

Or take another example – menopause. Study med at Oxbridge and go on to become a GP and your exposure to menopause training and study will be approximately 45 mins as an undergrad – but you’re good to go and start prescribing hot which may (or may not) have serious side effects. (This is actually a fact that I had to validate recently for a business pitch).

I’m sad that the Daily Mail infantilises the mass population, and that as a consequence it’s hard to have a informed conversation. Even with trying to go private it’s been nigh-on impossible to get a detailed breakdown of what my LDL is composed of – a or b? And because my cholesterol was slightly elevated on a binary scale I still don’t know that I am at any risk, having incredibly low inflammation markers. Do I have arterial build up? Nobody knows.

It’s against that background of rationalist dogma that I get frustrated with the inability of people to look at nuance and consider the individual. So, yeah, I like to be a provocative, asshat on the internet.

And final thought, as most drugs are so-ineffective and rely upon the placebo effect to work, is a reverse placebo effect of side-effects so hard to accept?

“Possibly one of the most offensive things I’ve heard in a while.”

you need to get out more!

I stopped taking statins about ten years ago when I suffered joint and muscle pain while taking them. I was also on a raft of other drugs with potential side effects I may or may not have been experiencing: Ace inhibitors – aggression, Beta blockers – Renal impairment, kidney stones and gout developed whilst on them and the gout continued for ten years until I took up Yoga…
GPs do have a tendency to over prescribe on some drugs without really giving the patient’s lifestyle much thought. They often don’t understand diet and they dismiss alternative therapies out of hand.
I am now of the conclusion that if a middle aged, white, English male doctor approaches me I shouldn’t just walk away, I bleedin’ run! (Not even said in jest!)

And are the drug companies any better? Viagra has the potential to be one of the most effective cures for period pain, yet the profits are rolling in and another series of trials just isn’t worth the effort…

SAS are clinically important. Statin-associated muscle symptoms (SAMS), the most common statin side effect, are reported by 10% (1) to 25% (2) of patients receiving statin therapy.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109716016922

similar levels quoted elsewhere in the literature. I’d call that common.

I will defend GPs because they have to have a huge breadth of knowledge which makes it difficult to always be up to date and also to have sufficient depth of knowledge but I do believe especially with statins they often over prescribe.

However do not lose sight of the fact that statins are a proven lifesaver with huge positive effects

Alternatively:

https://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.g2151?ijkey=73e15eb1e23cfdb1905086587fb41cddec52cdad&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

The issue with statins is that they are given to large numbers of people who are completely free of symptoms. It will prevent serious cardiovascular events in a relatively small number of these, so the trade-off between side-effects and benefits isn’t clear-cut for most people taking them, and the threshold for ‘acceptable’ side effects has to be much lower.

OP – I take it you’ve spoken to your doc about changing your statin or even reducing the dose? If side-effects are seriously affecting your quality of life, then the discussion should be had.

as most drugs are so-ineffective and rely upon the placebo effect to work,

*applauds* Chapeau sir. Really, well done.

Never taken statins but the OP’s description exactly mirrors what a colleague experienced; within weeks he lost drive and energy, gained weight and felt terrible. It took him a big effort to wean himself off them but six months later he was back to his normal healthy vigorous self. I believe it’s statins that are affecting my poor old neighbour Geoff who has gone in a few months from relatively healthy and fit golfer to tired, sedentary depressed old man.

Why would someone join a bike forum to sow doubt, in US english, about prescription of statins?

(oh yeah, and post #4 points to the website and un-peer reviewed book of a marginal cholesterol denialist. I’m not even going to start.)

Plenty of sensible people on here, otherwise I’d not want to give this the bump.

in US english

I’m not sure; the OP managed to spell ‘vigour’ correctly.

And they did also use the term ‘Daily Mail’ in it’s correct, hysterical, context.

Needs more evidence. A bit like statin issues…

you’re right. Though it was

ow people have gotten on

which sounds v american to me.

It took him a big effort to wean himself off them

What dosage are these people on?!

My cardiac consultant has me on 20mg, which I presume is a pretty low dose as my cholesterol wasn’t high, but he said it sill needed to be kept down – But not had any side effects – no idea what T/Libido is, but libido is as it ever was (as far as i’m prepared to go with that one!)
As for the other side effects mentioned
*Made me stupid – no change (still stupid)
*Killed my ambition – no change (still none)
*Capped my fitness – Yes, but I believe this is down to the arrhythmia rather than the drugs prescribed to combat it. Beta-blockers maybe had some effect, but again, low dosage.

Been on them 6 months now. Don’t religiously take them, as I forget. Low dose 20mg Atorvastatin. Cholesterol was 7.5 before and down to 5 within 3 months.

Absolutely no side effects, other than going to the loo for a number 2 a little more than before.

Mine appears to be genetic as my diet is good, exercise regular, very low risk on assessment, but 7.5 is way too high – even I know that. Both my folks are on statins, no side effects on Atoravastatin either. My mum had to try a few before she found one that didn’t cause side effects.

If you have side effects look to change or stop. A few folk have mentioned other medication above, it could be interaction also.

I had a mate drop dead recently – early 50’s cycled every day. Heart attack on the bike, whizzed in for a couple of stents, back home within a day, dropped dead a week after the original heart attack.

Have you had full blood tests to check values, especially testosterone ?

T can lower by age, but you’d normally expect a reading of 15-20 nmol (full range is 10-30) so somewhere in the middle.

Without wishing to be rude OP, is it possible that some of the side effects are just symptoms of ageing? Maybe add provocative asshat to that list as well?

provocative asshat

Is this a euphemism for this:

Absolutely no side effects, other than going to the loo for a number 2 a little more than before.

?

Ha. No, I was quoting the OP’s own description

*Obliterated my T/libido

Cool any excuse to get my hands on some legal teste patches like the pros 🙂

I’ve been on 40mg and now on 20 of Atorvastatin for years the initial side affects were interesting – ie multiple sharts for 3 days.

I’d look at your family history as well, my dad having an unexpected triple bypass (its heartburn i don’t need to see the doctor scenario) sorta ended up with me be dragged in and dosed up on statins.

Turns out most of the males in my line snuffed it with heart issues and weren’t lazy porkers.

…it’s possible to access this info in written form:

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/14/905?ijkey=615df69a4b1d130c57ad7ec9d037fb6e94de6c7b&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

I think the above is open access. This isn’t but covers the same ground:

https://www.bmj.com/content/367/bmj.l5674

Points:

Eligibility for statins has expanded over the past two decades
Uncertainty remains about the benefits of their use for primary prevention
Absolute risk reductions for low risk patients are small and patients may not consider that the absolute benefits justify taking a daily medication or the risk of adverse effects
Better data on harms and low risk populations are needed to facilitate shared decision making

My take (just so this isn’t post link and run as per above): deaths from heart disease have gone down significantly and something’s done it. https://www.bmj.com/content/354/bmj.i4609 though there’s a lot of it about (two reasonably close active, fit, outdoorsy mates have died suddenly of heart attacks which strikes me as worse than possibly feeling tired). So I’d probably take ’em if advised.

I dont want to give this thread too much bump nor the original troll oxygen but I also want to make the observation that statins effects appear to extend beyond simple cholesterol reduction and do have actions on arterial plaque, acting to stabilise them so further reducing cardiac risk.

Also as has been said above if you do have side effects then doses and statins can be changed. Specific lipid clinics exist where GPs need further assistance for patients.

Co-enzyme Q10 may help some with muscle aches but is a little contentious.

Thats me done.

My experience is that the statin that I’ve been on for circa 2.5 years has progressively:
*Made me stupid
*Killed my ambition
*Capped my fitness, which I’m now finding very difficult to regain
*Obliterated my T/libido

That doesn’t sound like the side effects of Statins, more like the side effects of ageing. It happens to us all.