Stans ZTR Arch Ex or Flow EX

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  • Stans ZTR Arch Ex or Flow EX
  • Goldigger
    Member

    I have a Anthem x 2009 that currently has Hope Pro 2 with XM 719 rims..
    I’m looking for a 2nd set of wheels as I’m Fed up with changing tyres for different conditions, Punctures from thorns or pinch flats.
    So I’m going tubeless.

    I’m 95kg without kit, ride a lot of XC, some trail centres…
    Like to bomb it down downhill descents.

    Am I best of going with the Arch EX? If so what’s the max tyre size the Arch can take?
    Tyres I currently have are
    Racing Ralphs 2.25 TL
    X King ProTection 2.2 TL
    Nobby Nic Evo 2.25

    Is the flow more geared for bigger sized tyres due to the wider profile of the rim?
    I was under the impression a wider rim was better to avoid tyres burping and loosing air.

    I’ve read numerous times ZTR rims and max rider weight but cannot find that info on the Stans site, where did these figures come from?

    glasgowdan
    Member

    Arch ex will do you. I’m lighter but use mine for a fair bit of dh. Using 2.35 intense tyres at 20-25 psi

    Premier Icon yoshimi
    Subscriber

    95kg kitted up Orange 5 riding rocky lakes trails, arch ex are fine

    Slogo
    Member

    Got a lovely set of hope hubbed arch ex rims, they’re awesome im 93kgs naked. 8)

    Goldigger
    Member

    Arch EX it is then, thought flows are probably overkill for me..
    Thanks for your replies

    What tyres are you guys using and any issues? Assuming your running tubeless?

    Just get the flows… seriously. theres only a few grams in it and the flows aren’t the toughest rims as it is! can’t see the Arch’s holding up to too many cases.

    Im running tubeless and it was very easy to set up with the supplied tape and valve.

    Premier Icon yoshimi
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    Rubber Queen ust 2.2 front and Spesh Purgatory 2.3 2bliss rear, both go on dead easy with a track pump if you leave a tube in overnight when you first get them, then inflate with the valve core removed.

    It’s true tho actual weight of a Flows is slightly less than advertised and Arch slightly higher. Not massive weight diff between them.

    Premier Icon yoshimi
    Subscriber

    One more thing, they’re quite sensitive to spike tension. After you’ve done about 100niles or do get them
    Re tensioned and they’ll last you a lot longer

    I would also second using the Arch rims. I built up a 29er singlespeed bike up in spring this year with flow rims and I managed to ding the rear rim so badly that I can’t run ut tubeless any more. Never happened before after using UST rims for years. I’ll be replacing it with an Arch after the winter/when money allows.

    Premier Icon lesgrandepotato
    Subscriber

    I’ve gone with crests on hopes for similar usage. Xc in the lakes on Scott spark.
    So far (1 week) they don’t seem to be made of cheese. Time will tell i suspect !
    They go well on the climbs 🙂

    Premier Icon lesgrandepotato
    Subscriber

    Am I doomed to a pretzel shaped death?

    Goldigger
    Member

    Which out of the arch or flow ex is comparable to XM719’s?
    My 719 have been bulletproof since 2009, only thing I’ve noticed is the spoke tension needs some tweaking now..
    I don’t use any tyres bigger than a 2.25, not sure if that’s a factor in choosing between the arch or flow?

    Premier Icon nuke
    Subscriber

    Which out of the arch or flow ex is comparable to XM719’s?

    Had 719s myself…fairly XC/Trail rim with a 19mm internal diameter; I replaced mine with 355 rims which had the same internal diameter of 19mm. They have stood up very well but are now discontinued, replaced by the Crest at 21mm. The Arch EX is almost the same as the Crest in dimension terms (Still 21mm) but with an additional internal arch. Flow EX have a 25.5mm internal width. Of the two, Arch EX or Flow EX, I’d get the Arch EX to replace 719

    nosedive
    Member

    OP – ive been using the older style stans arch and flow for a while. the easiest tyres i have set up tubeless are spesh butcher control. a steal at £60 a pair from freeborn

    nosedive
    Member

    and non-tubeless maxxis seat ok then explode dramatically on the smallest drop. UST maxxis work well though

    Roter Stern – Member
    I would also second using the Arch rims. I built up a 29er singlespeed bike up in spring this year with flow rims and I managed to ding the rear rim so badly that I can’t run ut tubeless any more. Never happened before after using UST rims for years. I’ll be replacing it with an Arch after the winter/when money allows.

    but the flow is the tougher of the Flow and the Arch…. so if you dinged a flow you’ll destroy an Arch.

    Premier Icon nuke
    Subscriber

    but the flow is the tougher of the Flow and the Arch…. so if you dinged a flow you’ll destroy an Arch.

    How is the Flow EX tougher? 😕 Its wider but its the same rim profile as the Arch EX

    If someone was dinging Arch EX rims, it would be better to look first at tyre choice and air pressures over whether a Flow EX would have prevented them

    alexdudley
    Member

    What about the new mavic 821, should be fairly bulletproof.

    but the flow is the tougher of the Flow and the Arch…. so if you dinged a flow you’ll destroy an Arch.

    How is the Flow EX tougher? Its wider but its the same rim profile as the Arch EX

    It’s wider, it’s deeper and it’s thicker where the spokes join. And with the same tyre and pressure it’ll be less prone to bottoming out thanks to the better sidewall shape and greater air volume. Otherwise you’re quite right! 😛

    If you’re not battering through rock gardens or casing jumps frequently and worry about weight then get the Arch EX.

    Goldigger
    Member

    Alexdudley,
    You’ve thrown a spanner in the works!
    I’ve only ever used mavic rims, those EN821’s look good!
    But I’m assuming the 450grams is without the mavic pre nipples? so it will end up being heavier than an arch ex.
    I think the pre nipples add another 50-60grams..

    alexdudley
    Member

    For sure, but do you need to add rim strips to the Stan’s so might not be too much in it! Thinking of the mavics myself, they look good too with the machining so appeal to the engineer in me. And besides, who wants to do the sheep thing for a couple of grams?

    james
    Member

    “Anthem x 2009”
    If it were me (about the same weight) I’d be deciding between crest or arch EX, just depends if you really want the stiffness. If you’re on QR forks for eg I’d be looking at crests

    “seriously. theres only a few grams in it”
    790-800g/pair or 980g/pair? rotating weight as well, so its hardly just a few grams

    Stans Claim the BST2 make the 21mm internal arch EX (and crest) make it equivalent to about 25mm with a standard rim wall

    “flows aren’t the toughest rims as it is! can’t see the Arch’s holding up to too many cases”

    Going from XM719’s to Arch EX’s one of the most noticeable things for me is how I’ve gone from a serial rim dinger and pinchflatter even with DH tubes and 30psi+ on the tall-rim-walled mavic’s to virtually never rim dinging on the ArchEX’s. The BST2 means its not pinching the tyre the same, so my rim walls are still good where the tougher mavics have had to have the adjustable spanner treatment a good many times

    “Which out of the arch or flow ex is comparable to XM719’s?”
    Neither, I think all stans rims right down to the XC race ones are wider than 719’s. Flow and FlowEX are similar weights. Not sure on toughness to rim ding’s though

    “non-tubeless maxxis seat ok then explode dramatically on the smallest drop”
    With the Arch EX with the BST2 they might be awful to seat (compressor job for me) I never had them burp in the alps.

    Also a cursory skim-read of that pinkbike article has me thinking their ‘theories’ (okay I only really looked at the pictures), don’t apply the same to Stans, the low rim wall height on a stans mean it doesn’t pinch the tyre quite the same as the pinkbike diagrams

    “but do you need to add rim strips to the Stan’s so might not be too much in it”
    Only on older Stans Rims? Flow, Arch, 355 etc
    Newer Crest, ArchEX, FlowEX just need tape (lighter than a rim strip for tubes) and a valve

    Goldigger
    Member

    Only problem is I can’t buy the EN821 with Pro 2’s off the shelf..
    Not listed under CRC’s custom wheel builder or merlins!
    probably going to be more expensive compared to a set of hope hoops..

    alexdudley
    Member

    Hmmm, think they have only recently been released so should filter through soon I guess. When you look at the price of rims they are no more expensive than Stan’s so no reason for them to be more built up. Give them a call as might not have updated their website.

    Crests will be fine and will suit the Anthem, I weigh 95kgs and ran them on my Turner Flux at trail centres and didn’t kill them.

    I now run Arch Ex’s on my Yeti and 355’s on my Tinbred. I also have two further sets of Crests on a 5spot and a Stiffee.

    All run with either Hope Pro 2 Evos or with Hope Pro 3’s

    Crests on an Anthem

    winch
    Member

    Regarding rim “strength”:

    I’m not convinced that the construction of one rim makes it significantly more resistant to “dings” than another. Sure, some rims have more material in them than others but I doubt the difference is significant once an impact of the necessary magnitude to do damage occurs. Alloys used also vary but again I’m doubtful the differences in compressive strength are significant.

    I’d consider that to reduce “rim dinging” you should heed chiefgrooveguru’s advice regarding wider rims:

    with the same tyre and pressure it’ll be less prone to bottoming out thanks to the better sidewall shape and greater air volume

    Choosing tyres with a decent thickness sidewall, particularly at the area just above the bead should help absorb some of the energy from an impact and also give the best chance of avoiding pinch flatting your tubeless tyre.

    Obviously the most important factor in avoiding rim damage is finding the right tyre pressure, which will always be a compromise.

    Golddigger – I’d go with the Flox Ex’s on anything but a race bike for the above reasons and to avoid rolling/burping during hard cornering. You sound more XC orientated than I seem to be at the moment which perhaps explains why you’re sticking with relatively narrow tyres. If you decide you want to bias your bike a little more towards

    bombing it downhill

    …then I think you could do worse than to invest in some wider tyres as well (assuming they’ll fit in the back of your bike).

    Disclaimer – I have been drinking.

    Goldigger
    Member

    Winch..
    I think 2.25 is about the limit in my anthem..
    here’s some pics of the clearance I have with X King Protection 2.2, which come up smaller than nobby nic 2.25’s

    Premier Icon nuke
    Subscriber

    It’s wider, it’s deeper and it’s thicker where the spokes join. And with the same tyre and pressure it’ll be less prone to bottoming out thanks to the better sidewall shape and greater air volume. Otherwise you’re quite right!

    Yep, got it’s wider, deeper/thicker fair enough but irrelevant to the rim being ‘tougher’ when it comes to dings. Where you get the dings, on the bead socket on the rim, there is no difference between the two rims bead sockets…so the Flow EX is not ‘tougher’, maybe less prone to dings because of the extra width but, tyre choice and pressure, come in to that as well.

    All I was going off really is the fact that Stan recommends the flow ex for DH and the Arch he doesn’t…

    james
    Member

    “Stan recommends the flow ex for DH and the Arch he doesn’t… “
    However:
    “I have a Anthem x 2009”
    Which is the other end of the giant spectrum of full sus bikes to a DH bike?

    Premier Icon bigjim
    Subscriber

    crest or arch

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    I think the thread has gone a bit off topic, and a bit strange.

    Bringing it back to the OP’s question, which is ‘What rim for my Anthem, when I ride XC, and some trail centers’.

    The simple answer, if you asked Stan himself would be the Crest.

    I ride pretty technical stuff in Scotland and use a Crest on the front and an Arch EX on the rear. I only changed the crest because I mis-timed hopping a drainage ditch, and a normal knee-jerk reaction was to go for the stronger rim, I doubt the Arch would have survived either.

    As long as you run the right pressures, you’re unlikely to have any issues running Crests for all trail centers in the UK – Laggan and the Ben Nevis DH would be perfectly fine.

    If you’re going to destroy a Crest, you’re going to destroy an Arch.

    They’re wide, so the tyre profile is great, rolling weight can never be underestimated in how much it affects a bike’s feel. Something like an Anthem is meant to be built light, so it floats over stuff, rather than plowing through it, a Flow to me, is going against that logic – it’s an XC bike, not an enduro/AM/trail bike.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    This thread is mental. It’s an Anthem X, it’s going to get a 2.25 XC tyre on it, and people are saying things like “Arch won’t stand up to many cases” 821s FFS!

    rickon said it all. This is the job Crests are for. Or if you’re a serial rim-dinger perhaps an 819, they’re heavy and skinny and generally showing their age but they’re tough as old boots. Though it’d be better to just pump up your tyres.

    Goldigger
    Member

    Northwind
    How many people ride bikes in conditions that are not what their bike was initially designed for? My anthem is my first full suss bike..if I had the choice of buying it now, I’d go with a trance.
    If money were no object I’d have a different bike for the different trails I ride. One thing I do believe is that flows aren’t really at home on my anthem..but I don’t agree crests are the rim for the job here.

    The reason why I don’t think crests are the answer is I’m 95kg naked and not the smoothest graceful rider.
    Some of the hits I’ve encountered on my anthem I don’t know how the 719’s haven’t buckled..

    Don’t 821’s weigh the same as 819’s?

    Personally I think the arch EX is the best bet for me..

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    “non-tubeless maxxis seat ok then explode dramatically on the smallest drop”
    With the Arch EX with the BST2 they might be awful to seat (compressor job for me) I never had them burp in the alps.

    I must try some more of the smallest drops, over 2m and no issues yet

    “but do you need to add rim strips to the Stan’s so might not be too much in it”
    Only on older Stans Rims? Flow, Arch, 355 etc
    Newer Crest, ArchEX, FlowEX just need tape (lighter than a rim strip for tubes) and a valve

    719’s go with just yellow tape too (just for some balance)

    lol… oops did the OP do a sneaky edit to include the Anthem? 😉 Classic case of reading the words I wanted to I reckon. ignore me and carry on 🙂

    Premier Icon nuke
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    The reason why I don’t think crests are the answer is I’m 95kg naked and not the smoothest graceful rider.

    Exactly…and you said it in your first post and that’s why I didn’t suggest Crest. Arch EX all the way 😀

    Premier Icon ddmonkey
    Subscriber

    I have a set of both Flow and Arch EX, both running Maxxis Ardent 2.4 tyres – ride both fairly hard and I have had no problems with either so far, I am sure that Arch EX are fine for all-around use.

    Goldigger
    Member

    Nuke, you and others have hit the nail on the head..Arch EX it is..thanks for the help guys.. 🙂

    Is there a reason why the hope pro 2 evo SP only come in black? Black isn’t bling 🙁

    flow ex are overkill on a anthem, if you have an anthem with flow ex’s on you have the wrong bike!

    at a push arch ex, but if you relatively light weight and the bikes being used for what its designed for, then crests all the way

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Goldigger – Member

    The reason why I don’t think crests are the answer is I’m 95kg naked and not the smoothest graceful rider.
    Some of the hits I’ve encountered on my anthem I don’t know how the 719’s haven’t buckled..

    But, they haven’t, which is the important thing. Most folks underestimate the strength of wheels, or think that because they dinged them on a rock the whole wheel’s likely to fail. The crest isn’t the strongest rim in the world but it’s no shrinking violet either.

    Bikes are just the sum of their parts, Anthems are brilliant but your choice of tyres says as much too, if you fit really burly wheels you’ll just be making something else a weaker link.

    IMO of course 😉

    Oh, 821 weights- we need to see what they actually weigh as Mavic claimed weights can’t be trusted, the published weights don’t include the ferrule things required to build the wheel. But if they don’t weigh more than the 819 I’ll be amazed.

    Goldigger
    Member

    Can I get a muddy Mary 2.3 on arch EX? Or is it a bit to large in profile to avoid burping running tubeless?
    Secondly is a 2.3 to large to run on my anthem? Nobby nic 2.25 fit, but some tyres come up smaller/larger than others..

    http://r2-bike.com/schwalbe-muddy-mary-26-x-235-fr-2a

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