Morning all,

I’m about to build my fist set of wheels, I’m hoping to use Stans Crest rims for this, but was wondering about the spokes and cross pattern.

Ordinarily, I’d specify DT Revs and either a 2X or 3X pattern depending upon use. Will these be too flexy for a 29er wheel?

Spokes would be silver DT Rev 1.5s at 284mm length.

Cheers,

Ive always used Sapim Race (2.0-1.8-2.0). 3x usually.
Never had a problem.

Pretty sure my TN719’s on Surly ss wheels are on Revs. No issues here. 3x by the way.

Excellent. I’ll go with the Revs.

Cheers fellas.

I’d really recommend not building Crest 29ers using Revs. They will almost certainly be too flexy. Crest 29ers are a fairly flexy rim in the first place (not bad for their weight but …) and Revs will definitely not help. The weight saving is so small (circa 30g over Supercomps or 60g over Comps) that the loss of stiffness is just not worth the saving.

I’d go with Supercomps as a minimum really but would suggest Comps as the better option really. I would stick with 3 cross too although there’s not really a huge difference with going 2 cross (not much advantage though either)

Takisawa’s wheels probably are ok but the Mavic rims will be stiffer than a Crest to start with and SS wheels are usually stiffer too as they have less dish in the rear wheel.

Hope that helps,

Matt

P.S. This comes from having built somewhere in the region of 1000 wheels on Stan’s rims just as an idea of where I am coming from

Dont forget to go to rosebikes for your spokes!

beyond all the above advice, I highly reccomend not using revs on your first wheel build – much better to learn on plain gauge or db and learning the basics before getting into the intricacies of building with revs.

Thanks Matt, I appreciate the advice. Would you recommend a different Rim? They’re going to be used on a disc CX bike if it makes a difference. I was considering the Iron Cross rim, but no one seems to have them.

JRA have the iron cross in stock

http://www.justridingalong.com/stans-notubes-ztr-iron-cross-32h-black.html

beyond all the above advice, I highly reccomend not using revs on your first wheel build – much better to learn on plain gauge or db and learning the basics before getting into the intricacies of building with revs.

I’m sorry, what?

I’d use Sapim CX-Rays, although they’re a bit on the spendy side.

Id love to have a go with CX rays but they are soooooo expensive.
Do you use the proper tool for holding the blade SDB, or do you improvise?

And as an aside, why do I always feel in a minority by liking Sapim spokes over DTs? Not that I really have anything against DT, just not sure why Id pay more for them.

Do you use the proper tool for holding the blade SDB, or do you improvise?

I only laced the wheels, chap I work with finished them off and used the proper tool (I work in a bike shop). I know what you mean about the price, they are silly money. Very happy indeed with the build though.

And as an aside, why do I always feel in a minority by liking Sapim spokes over DTs? Not that I really have anything against DT, just not sure why Id pay more for them.

Not sure why I’d pay more for them either. Sapim spokes are excellent.

I’ve used Crests (29) with DT Revs in a 3X pattern on both my bikes. Not noticed them to be any more (or less) flexy than the wheels they replaced. Just a damn site lighter! 🙂
I guess it depends a bit on your weight and style of riding but for general trail duties I find them perfect.

I’m sorry, what?

revs wind up a lot more during build, particularly at 29 spoke lengths, which can lead to uneven tensions and a weaker build. You don’t need to worry so much about wind up on heavier spokes as they don’t suffer anything like as much.

Hence easier for a first time build not to use revs. Or lasers for that matter.

ah, cop out 🙂

I still want to treat myself to a Park tools tension meter one day. Might be a bt more accurate than my “ping it with an allen key and listen for the tone” technique. 😀

i had the wind up when building with revs. i don’t think i’d bother with them again and wouldn’t use them on crest rims anyway. they are light and fairly fragile rims to start with.

I agree with the comments about not using Revs for your first build, and the reasoning why. I’d suggest not building with CX-Rays (or DT Aerolites etc.) for similar reasons – whilst you can see the wind up so it’s a lot easier to get rid of it, they wind up a lot more than even Revs or Lasers, and it can be quite a pain to get them up to proper tension for that reason – at high tension they can wind up enough to get plastic deformation. The special tool might seem like a good idea, but has it’s own problems, as the spoke will just wind up from the end of the tool, which if you’re not careful when reaching high tensions can result in a permanent kink there (if you’re not having problems with that, then you’re almost certainly not getting tension high enough). I own the special tool as it seemed like a good idea, but don’t ever use it.

Sapim Race spokes they are quite cheap. £0.45 in most places (ailver) including my own althogh black cost more.
These are perfect for many 29er builds using light rims.

Sapim do the laser spoke which is the same gauge as the DT rev but cheaper in the U.K. So I would se those. I build road wheels allt the time with them and so long as you lubricate the spoke threads they don’t wind up. At least I never get an issue.

Thin gauge spokes are fine for many but if you are unsure then use race spokes as the build will be stiffer which suits some more than others.

I’ve got no preference for DT over Sapim, but there seems to be more choice in the DT range and they’re easier to get hold of.

Will have a look at some DT Supercomps and the Iron Cross rim (Thanks CP, that didn’t seem to come up in Google) for my first build.

Sapim do the laser spoke which is the same gauge as the DT rev but cheaper in the U.K. So I would se those. I build road wheels allt the time with them and so long as you lubricate the spoke threads they don’t wind up. At least I never get an issue.

Either you’re not putting much tension in your spokes or you’re just not noticing the wind-up you get. Do you find your wheels make noises when you first ride them and you have to tweak them after first use? Even normal butted spokes (Sapim Race etc.) wind up significantly when brought to high tension, even if you lubricate the spoke threads (I always put oil on my spoke threads, which is probably better lube than moat people use).

Hi Daffy,

I’m Matt from 18 just using my own login today as I’m not in the shop.

Are you planning to use the CX wheels with road tyres at all? If you are then I would definitely not use Crests as road tyres are very very difficult to get on and even worse to try to get back off. TBH, I reckon for a CX build then the Iron Cross would likely be a better option anyway. I’ve built a few pairs of wheels on them and they work really well with tubeless CX tyres but also work well with tubed road tyres. They won’t handle road tubeless though so don’t try that. If you’re planning to use the wheels with only CX tyres and not with road tyres then the Crest would certainly be good option as they are a little wider than Iron Cross.

We usually carry stock of the Iron Cross rims but, due to being at home today, I am not sure whether we have them in at the mo. We can definitely get hold of them for you though if you wanted to go that way.

With either rim, I would still suggest not using Revs as the tiny weight saving (that you’d never notice except on the scales) really isn’t worth the loss of stiffness (which you definitely would notice) unless you’re planning on using them for quick racing (and even then I’d be dubious about using them). I also agree that Revs are a good bit more tricky to build well than their heavier gauge alternatives due to the wind-up.

A build on Crests or Iron Cross (heading the tyre info above) with Supercomps or Comps (or their Sapim equivalents) would be a really nice and yet still pretty lightweight set up that should see you right.

If you’ve got any more questions on the build or how to build then feel free to ask here or you can email me at the shop (info@18bikes.co.uk)

Cheers

I know how to tension a wheel and properly tension, no no pinging noises when the wheel is first riden as I troughly releieve stress. I am not joking either. I use Lasers at lot when building road bike wheels. I do lubricate the spoke threads with 3 n 1 oil and this must reduces it. If there is no oil then I would get wind up. Maybe it is the way I tension. Turn the nipples one turn stress relieve then apply more tension and stress releive some more and so on and so on, it takes time but it works. The wind up I get is minimal as when I stress releive there is little pinging.

I build commercailly week in week out with Lasers and never had any problems. I do know what I am doing 😉

The op is free to e-mail me too at my shop with any questions on workshop@thecycleclinic.co.uk

I also carry Sapim Race spokes in all lengths. As I have said Laser are not best for a 29er build. Race spokes are good and D-light spokes possibly depending on rider weight, power output e.t.c. The other spoke that would work is a the ACI alpina DB which I will probably start using more of as they cheap light and good quality. Sorcing these is easy as well.

The nice thing about race spokes is that if the lengths you need are between 288 and 298mm they come in 1mm increments in silver. This makes building quicker as less time is spend dishing the wheel.

Glad I read what folk have said about the Revs. When I built mine I was swapping out some XT hubs & used the same spokes. About to order some spokes for a 26″ build, but not looking to spend a lot so might give the Sapim ones a go.

Yes give them a go. They are better as they are cheaper.

Maybe it is the way I tension. Turn the nipples one turn stress relieve then apply more tension and stress releive some more and so on and so on, it takes time but it works. The wind up I get is minimal as when I stress releive there is little pinging.

Ah – so you do get wind up, just that you get rid of it by stress relieving rather then the more normal method of over-rotating the spoke key and then backing off. Doubtless your method builds really good wheels, but it does sound like an awful lot of effort to me compared to the method I use. As I mentioned I also use oil to lubricate the spoke threads – it seems unusual to find somebody else doing that.

Nice 🙂

I’m a big fan of aci spokes , they don’t seem seem to fail and are far better value than other
But I’m always drawn to revs for my own wheels due to the weight
They can be a pain to use if you want the proper tension though