surely common sense should prevail?

… which is where it all goes wrong.

My local 24h Tesco has, for reasons best known to itself, maybe thirty disabled bays taking up two almost full rows in front of the store. I once parked in one at silly o’clock to go get a bottle of milk or something, when there was only a handful of vehicles in total in the car park. Got out and was met with a full-on English passive-aggressive scowl of disapproval from some woman who was walking past. There may even have been some tutting.

Now, I appreciate that I shouldn’t really park there and I would never dream of doing it during the day, but come on, are you expecting a sudden rush or something?

Scapegoat – Member
I lived in Italy in the 80s. Virtually every public toilet was a squat type.

I had to use one last week at the Oval in Turin! For any other traveller faced with such a contraption, there is a useful Wiki guide on use here: How to use a Squatty Potty

Wow, I didn’t think this was worth such nastiness. I’m asking a question because I really don’t know. I don’t know why you (nealglover) are being so nasty to someone who just wants to do the decent thing.

And just to clarify, I was only talking about using the disabled loo in offices where I’ve worked for a while, and where I know there aren’t any wheelchair users in that part of the building. I have never used a public one.

Not everyone is obviously disabled.

This is very true, and sadly I know a few people in exactly this situation. Plenty of people have the attitude of “well, you don’t look ill” which really doesn’t help.

That said, I’m struggling to think offhand of a disability which would necessitate use of the accessibility features of the disabled loos, but would still be a ‘non-obvious’ disability. Unless you need to go and the regular toilets are all engaged, I guess?

I know there aren’t any wheelchair users in that part of the building.

I’m sure you realise this but of course they’re not just intended for use by wheelchair users, despite what the logo would have you believe.

It’s like a car driver using an ASL as he can’t see any cyclists in it.

So longs you didn’t overtake anyone in a wheelchair molgrips who was currently heading that way I reckon your fine 😉
But in all honesty I don’t see an issue with it in a private office block.

I’m sure you realise this but of course they’re not just intended for use by wheelchair users

Yes of course. But one would assume that if you are able to move about normally but have some other concealed kind of disability that you could use the normal toilets? I mean deaf people are disabled, but should they use the disabled loos?

This is why I asked the question. It was not a rhetorical one. I don’t have much experience of disability, so I was hoping someone who does could help me learn more.

It’s like a car driver using an ASL as he can’t see any cyclists in it.

To be fair, I expect that the majority of drivers who ignore ASLs do so because they passed their test before ASLs existed and don’t actually have the first idea what they’re supposed to be doing with it.

I mean deaf people are disabled, but should they use the disabled loos?

Do the disabled loos have a visual indicator for the fire alarm perhaps, where the regular ones don’t?

No cougar, not required under regs.

They usually have a bell for room service.

Do all the other rooms in a building have visual fire alarms for the deaf (not being sarky either, just never noticed such a feature).

I use our disabled loo for changing in (and general ablutions). I’m not aware of anyone sharing the same office floor who would need the enhanced space and access facilities provided by said toilet. And, the alternative is to use a toilet which is minging 🙂

Noisy areas within factories etc have them but in standard offices its smokes, with heat detectors in canteen areas then just sounders when the alarm kicks in.

Many years ago I needed a number 2 at Paddington station. Each cubicle door was half glazed with frosted glass and the attendant walked up and down checking that there was nothing untoward going on in each cubicle. A bit off-putting but when a man’s got to go…………

I also work in an office where there is nobody who looks as if they have a disability that requires the use of the disabled loo. As our only shower cubicle is out-of-bounds I get changed in the disabled loo. I really can’t see as it is a problem……….

I would say that if there where showers in the disabled toilet they expect able bodied people to use them for showering purposes.

My shower at work is in a disabled toilet, in fact all the toilets in my building have disabled facilities in them, and there are no disabled people in my building.

I worked with a chap for quite some time and knew that occasionally he’d be off work for a while with a recurrent illness, but knew no more. I’d known him for the best part of ten years before I found out (he told me) that he’d had an ostomy. This is not the kind of thing you can easily deal with in shared loos, but not the kind of thing that’s an “obvious” disability

having said that in our building all the “disabled” loos (one on each floor) are also the ladies loos, as we have only a few women working here and far more men. And I still use the ladies/disabled looks for changing when I cycle in as it’s more convenient to do so in terms of physical space and there’s only usually one or two other people in. Wouldn’t use it during normal office hours

Do all the other rooms in a building have visual fire alarms for the deaf

My logic was that in most other places you’re likely to have other people around you so that if you are so stone deaf that you can’t hear a fire alarm then the mass exodus of everyone else might tip you off. OTOH, if you’re on your break and nicely settled in with the Times Crossword whilst you wait for nature to take its course, you don’t usually have company (unless, seemingly, you’re in Paddington Station).

Though thinking about it, a) it’s a pretty fringe situation to start with and b) if you were unfortunate enough to be so profoundly deaf, then relying on others to give you the Team America signal is probably unacceptable from a H&S point of view irrespective of whereabouts in the building you are at the time.

My brother-in-law had some ‘personal issues’ and had to give a semen sample. He was expecting to be shown to a private room with perhaps a magazine or a few films but instead had to perform in the disabled loo (in which someone had just taken a dump). Not the most inspiring environment.

Can’t imagine it being wholly pleasant for the next disabled person to have to use the facilities for their intended purpose there either, TBH. I hope his aim was good.

Wow, I didn’t think this was worth such nastiness. I’m asking a question because I really don’t know. I don’t know why you (nealglover) are being so nasty to someone who just wants to do the decent thing.

How was I being nasty ?

You asked a question and I explained a perfect example of what you asked for.

And I am amazed that you needed to ask the question at all, as I said.
,

You said…..

I use disabled loos whenever it’s expedient. Am I wrong?

No mention of a private office area, toilet never used by disabled people etc.

you made it sound (intentionally?) like you do it all the time, wherever you happen to be.

And I responded accordingly.

And as I said before, do you actually know what “expedient” means ?

Because possibly by using that word, you made it sound very different from what you intended.

Whilst lay on the MRI scanner at a nice private hospital I had a little snooze, music gently playing away in my ears. I awoke to the stop of the table sliding back out and the operator frantically waving to me at the viewing window to get out. On removing the headphones I could hear the fire alarm. Cue the fastest get change in history!

I’d have no issues whatsoever in going for a ‘luxury poo’ if the mood took me.

I believe the correct term is “a handicrap” 😆

(and yes I’ve made guilty use of the disabled loo at the office on occasion, when the stalls of the main loo next door are occupied. But I’m not too concerned as it is mainly used as a Cleaning Supplies cupboard and you have to move mops and buckets out the way to get to the seat!)

How on earth can you wear headphones during an MRI? Do they have special non-ferrous ones?

If it’s inconsiderate to use a disabled bog in case an incontinent person is desperate to use it, why does that make it any better for the desperate one if it’s a disabled person in there?

Equine Altitude Sickness prevails.

I’d imagine they might use special “air tube” headphones which don’t have wires or metal in them – they just modify the pressure of the air.

at my work they are called the VIP toilets.

How on earth can you wear headphones during an MRI?

http://www.scansound.com/mri-music/pneumatic-mri-headphones/mri-noise-reduction-headphone.html

molgrips – Member

And just to clarify, I was only talking about using the disabled loo in offices where I’ve worked for a while, and where I know there aren’t any wheelchair users in that part of the building. I have never used a public one.

Cougar – Moderator

That said, I’m struggling to think offhand of a disability which would necessitate use of the accessibility features of the disabled loos, but would still be a ‘non-obvious’ disability.

Gentlemen. 🙂
Please don’t take offence, but this is the root of the problem.
You both come across as intelligent people who are happy using your judgement and acquired knowlege.
And you’ll usually find that your judgement is correct.

Sadly, this can cause issues when you are dealing with a seemingly illogical situation of which you have little experience.

There are many situations where someone with a non obvious disability would need to use a disabled loo.
Please, just take my word for it. 🙂

molgrips – Member

Wow, I didn’t think this was worth such nastiness.
It’s not nastiness Molgrips.
It’s frustration that some people just can’t seem to accept that things are the way they are for a reason that may not always be apparant at first sight.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
You don’t always know best.

This is why all the public disabled loos in Caderdale have to have locks on them.
Because seemingly intelligent people can’t understand that their (usually self determined) impeccable logic could ever be wrong.

So please.
Don’t use disabled loos unless you have to.

We have one loo at work. It’s been converted so that disabled people can use it . The hand rails are covered with clothes and samples, there is in fact a rather fit bloke getting changed in it right now ( fire suit sample fit and photoshoot) there’s some sweaty palms amongst the girls and Simon

I need a wee though

Don’t use disabled loos unless you have to.

wouldn’t it be easier for all to differentiate? Have disabled only and disabled shared use variants? The work showers are in a disabled loo, presumably I’m allowed a tinkle before/after I’ve showered. The male bogs on our floor were converted to a single occupancy disabled toilet, the sign on the door is the standard disabled one but on the lifts/building map there are male and disabled toilets advertised on our floor, but they are one and the same. So our employer (who are normally right on, equal opportunities, PC gawn mayyyd types) certainly seem happy with shared use in some cases.

D0NK – Member
wouldn’t it be easier for all to differentiate? Have disabled only and disabled shared use variants?

But that’s what we do have:
Disabled only & shared use.

Edit – do you mean that normal loos should have disabled facilities too?
I can see what you mean, but it’s often not easy to maintain someone’s privacy and dignity when trying to share a loo.

The work showers are in a disabled loo

Really?
That’s ridiculous.

The male bogs on our floor were converted to a single occupancy disabled toilet, the sign on the door is the standard disabled one but on the lifts/building map there are male and disabled toilets advertised on our floor, but they are one and the same. So our employer (who are normally right on, equal opportunities, PC gawn mayyyd types) certainly seem happy with shared use in some cases.

Your employers sound like a bunch of muppets, tbh. 😀

There are cultures where it is considered wrong to touch a toilet with anything other than the soles of your shoes

My brother has to routinely fix the bogs at Gatwick sorting office as certain sections of society insist on standing on the toilet rather than sitting.
Wonder how many people fall off?

zippykona – Member
Wonder how many people fall off?

One foot in the gravy?

Edit – do you mean that normal loos should have disabled facilities too?

nah, I meant: In building A we have limited space and must have a disabled loo so there is a shared use one. In building B we have lots of space so there is male and female and disabled only
type of thing.
The Loo/shower thing is a wet room, disabled spec toilet to one side, curtained off shower to the other.
The male/disabled loo maybe an error and it’s actually supposed to be disabled only whoever did the “toilet advert” signs may have got their wires crossed. It’s an old building soon to be demolished, several things appear to have been crowbarred in ad hoc recently.
But like I said dunno how these things are supposed to go.

I’d imagine they might use special “air tube” headphones which don’t have wires or metal in them – they just modify the pressure of the air.

Ah, I know the things. They used to have them in aircraft a few years ago.

Sadly, this can cause issues when you are dealing with a seemingly illogical situation of which you have little experience.

There are many situations where someone with a non obvious disability would need to use a disabled loo.
Please, just take my word for it.

You misunderstand, I think. I wasn’t trying to justify their (ab)use, it was a genuine question as I couldn’t immediately think of a scenario. I could take your word for it, or you could just give me an example or two of these “many” situations? The ‘ostomy’ example given by someone earlier, for instance; they don’t need the modifications per sé, but they do need more privacy than afforded by conventional ‘shared’ facilities.

I’m well aware of difficulties and prejudice faced by people who don’t “look” disabled; my partner is thusly affected, for a start.

certain sections of society insist on standing on the toilet rather than sitting.

Some societies use squat toilets so that is how some folk are used to using them.

All you need is a sign explaining the correct position on a Western toilet:

heres some maths:

each floor in my office has a seperate loo for the disabled.
each floor then has another disabled cubicle in the usual toilets.
note: assuming theres one in the womens too.

that means each floor has 3 disabled loos.
the total number of toilets is 7 per floor.

I have never seen a wheel chair in the building and even given that some people may have a more discreet disabiltiy surely thats way more disabled toilets than needed? Or do the powers alocating numbers expect us all to get a disability sometime soon?

zippykona – Member

My brother has to routinely fix the bogs at Gatwick sorting office as certain sections of society insist on standing on the toilet rather than sitting.
Wonder how many people fall off?
My Aunt was Dean of a college and this situation was the subject of a whole raft of memos from the caretaker, most of which complained that the “forrin” students’ acrobatic skills were not matched by their aiming techniques.

Good debate..

The Internetz is alive & kicking 🙄

Good job you’re here to move the discussion on with your insightful contributions then, hey?