Spendy softshell experience/advice

I’ve been looking for a Goldilocks 3 season-ish everyday coat.

A bit warm, but not too warm (I’ve got pretty warm/waterproof and very warm/waterproof jackets… in fact, I have quite a lot of jackets!).  I’m sweaty, so somewhat breathable  – where the “pretty warm” jacket has been too much for me recently.  Windproof as I spend time most days wondering across high/open ground with the dog. I live in Wales, so a bit waterproof, enough for constant drizzle, or maybe a 15 minute quick hack back to the car in heavier stuff – I have hardshells and the warm jackets for long duration, expected, proper rain.

I was looking at ski jackets, but nothing grabbed me (most seemed likely too warm), and I started to think that I really just wanted a thin fluffy layer under a waterproof… just like a softshell. My Rab Kinetic Alpine jacket with a bit of insulation inside and maybe pit zips could be just the thing. A bit of research found softshells can be had in what sounds like reasonably waterproof form. So I’ve been trialling the idea with a cheap’n’nasty softshell I picked up a few years ago in TK Maxx as a (very effective) windproof, and I expect it’s fairly waterproof too, as I think the membrane layer is a bin bag! It’s been working quite well as it’s not warm enough to see me sweating much (or is  more breathable than I give it credit for), and does indeed hold off the drizzle.

In the meantime, I just had a decent Christmas bonus, so I can suddenly consider the top end jackets 😉

Ones I’ve been looking at include the Arc’teryx Gamma MX, Mountain Equipment Vulcan or Mission, Rab Scimitar and maybe a couple of others I’ve forgotten for the moment. There’s also the usual bunch of makes I’ve not really  heard of (lots by Hannah?) on SportsPursuit at more budget friendly prices… I care very little for fashion, so happy to have 2 or 3 year old colourways.

Also due to living in rural Wales, it’s a PITA to get anywhere to see/feel/try any decent range of these sorts of things, so here I am asking for any experience/comments/suggestions/etc so I’m poised with my card ready for the new year sales 😉

Rab VR.
Choose how warm from light to medium to thick.
Job jobbed.

Edit: I should add I go for the lighter weight one and just add an extra baselayer or thin fleece if needed. I’ve a shiny new one wrapped up under the tree at the moment…

If you’re looking on Sportpursuit I have a Fjern Breen jacket that I love. It’s my most worn jacket. It’s only £49.99 just now which is a proper bargain.

I recently bought a revolution race soft shell, the hiball, only had it a few weeks but it looks very well made.  It was half price in their sale but currently back to a full rrp and rather spendy it seems. I’ve also got a Solomon that was a charity shop bargain and it’s clearly well made,  no idea what the real price would be though. 

My wife has a mammut that came via tk  maxx and has been superb.

3 brands to consider. 

ME Vulcan looks really nice but probably quite niche. Nearly 800g, sounds like the sort of thing you put on and commit to wearing until your return.

I think in own a mountain equipment Mission. I got a price match in Cotswold that knocked a chunk off the price. To me it’s an autumn spring coat. It’s quite good on the mtb in winter

But it’s not water proof. It’ll a survive a shower between the car park and work

I’ve had a ME Vulcan jacket for a few years and it’s brilliant.  The material was branded Goretex Infinium then – I believe it’s now branded Windstopper.

It’s a genuine 3 season coat  – too warm for summer, but only just.

Has everything you say you want:

– Completely windproof

– water resistant (I’ve been caught in heavy rain in it, and it’s not come through.  Can take a while to dry out though, if fully soaked).

– thin fleecey lining, which helps on the colder days

– Pit zips which help on the warmer or more active days

– really adjustable hood (adjusters / tighteners at the front and at the back of the head.  In really foul weather, you can properly batten down the hatches!)

I’ll typically wear it over a t-shirt and fleece top in winter, just a t-shirt / single layer in autumn and spring.

I’d definitely replace it if anything happened to it (funds permitting!).

Only thing to watch out for is it’s quite an athletic fit (it’s slightly stretchy fabric, so I guess its designed to be a relatively close fit).  That just helps it to be windproof though  – you don’t get the bottom hem flapping around or lifting in high winds.

@bikesandboots is right about leaving it on: it’s got a decent weight to it, so has a little bit of bulk to stow or carry.  Unless temperatures swing very wildly while you’re out, you’re unlikely to want to take it off anyway.

I’ve got the Arcteryx one and it’s brilliant. I’ve used it from everything between dog walking and biking softshell. Really nice cut, well made and has lasted (so far) over a decade.

My Rab Kinetic Alpine jacket with a bit of insulation inside and maybe pit zips could be just the thing.

With softshell, it’s always a balance between water resistance and breathability. The Kinetic is waterproof and also decently breathable, Gore Infinium or Windstopper are close, maybe a little less breathable subjectively, but tend not to have taped seams, so not technically waterproof. Lightly insulated Windstopper would maybe work, but will, eventually, leak from the seams.

Non membrane softshells – usually double-weave are less water resistant, but more breathable. Basically you need to decide how water resistant you want to be. 

What’s stopping you from simply using the Kinetic with a warmer mid-layer? It’s good stuff, but tends ime, to wet out faster than a conventional waterproof fabric. 

At some point someone will suggest Paramo, which isn’t a bad call tbh, and Buffalo stuff, which is basically a sack made from pile and Pertex with a couple of tubes for your arms to go through. 

I bought a Rab VR a couple of months ago, I have only worn it twice as its quite warm and it hasn’t really been all that cold.

I have to say its very light and it breathes extremely well, which is good as my body tends to run warm.  I got it in a sale for about 90 quid, overall I have been impressed so far.

My softshell is a Costco own brand and it’s been brilliant, an earlier version of this but no hood. It’s become my go to for outdoor work too, seems tough as old boots. Sorry about the low price.

https://www.costco.co.uk/Jewellery-Accessories-Clothing/Clothing/Mens-Clothing/c/cos_3.13.1?q=:price-desc:brand:Kirkland%2BSignature

I’ve got Montane (not sure which). Never off unless it’s good weather or super cold. Great jacket, not listed as waterproof but it’s kept me dry in some bad situations. It was 100 quid in the sale. Only down side I’m lanky so would prefer a slightly longer body, but sleeves are nice and long.
Also Have 25 quid screwfix one for garage. Fit and tailoring is chalk and cheese, but that’s to be expected.
All brands above will perform as you need, it’s about how it fits.

I’ve had a ME Vulcan jacket for a few years and it’s brilliant. Has everything you say you want:

Yep, it’s very high on the list – glad to get a real thumbs up for it…

I’ve got the Arcteryx one and it’s brilliant. 

Choices, choices… 😀

What’s stopping you from simply using the Kinetic with a warmer mid-layer?

This is aimed as an everyday coat, so I just want it right for throwing on over whatever I’ve been wearing in the house (either t-shirt or t-shirt plus jumper, we don’t keep the house boiling hot) rather than having to consider changing layers around. The Kinetic does that job well in warmer months if rain is even vaguely predicted; but it’s not enough in the colder half of the year. When I am getting serious and layering in winter, it’d probably be my Berghaus GTX-pro hardshell as the exterior choice anyway. (And yes, I’ve got more jackets again for riding 😉 )

And I take back the bit about it being hard to see these jackets in deepest Wales – I was thinking I might be able to make a trip to that there Bristol for some quality shopping – hardly any of the shops there seem to have any of this sort of stuff available either, so looks like it will be ordering them to try.

Have you considered something a bit different? Similar price, made in the UK of natural materials (wool).
A McNair mountain shirt.

I started to think that I really just wanted a thin fluffy layer under a waterproof

What you describe is a fleece, not a softshell. The “shell” is your outer layer, hence the name. A waterproof does this well or, if you’re not expecting rain (or are expecting to sweat a lot) pertex or similar. A softshell is a windproof outer layer that has insulation of its own.

Fleece is super cheap and a lot more breathable than a softshell. The idea is that your insulation layers transport sweat away from your body and the outer layer can transport it outside. Fleece is really good at this, even the cheap stuff. Think of it like a jumper.

Trying to buy one jacket for every occasion is futile, and a range of jackets for every possibility is expensive and inflexible. What you want is layers, each of which does one job. Then you can mix and match accordingly. It’s much cheaper and more flexible since if you get warm you can remove just a layer – or vice versa.

Layering doesn’t need to be a serious endeavour. It doesn’t take long to change a jumper before you put your jacket on. It’s what I do.

So do you want a softshell (very little insulation, I have an old Norrona in twin weave Schoeller fabric, fantastic in cold , dryish as an outer) or something a bit warmer, as a straight softwhell will suck as an everyday jacket.

Patagonia nano puff – . or an R2.  . Not a nano air, zero windproof by design

I’ll take on the ambassador role for recommending Paramo, but a niche recommendation even by paramo standards…

Paramo Bentu Plus

It’s a fleece, that you can wash in Nikwax to make it drizzle proof, yet remains warm, breathable and quick drying

I’ve used my paramo velez light smock for 10 years and love it, but i now wear my paramo Bentu plus fleece more, it is exceptionally soft to wear as well

The phrase softshell covers many different designs. I have 4 or 5 jackets which could all be described as soft shells. They are all fairly different. And how you view them depends very much on how hot or cold you run. I have a Buffalo mountain shirt which only gets worn on pretty foul weather days. But as I said earlier it’s the Fjern Breen which gets the most use as it’s so versatile.

Coming back to this, turns out as soon as it’s much above freezing, I do sweat in the TKMaxx special!

So I’ve finally bought a Marmot ROM at a hefty discount from SportPursuit.

It’s a bit thinner than I was imagining, but the gore-tex does seem to work magic you’d hope it would in a £300 jacket; tested this weekend in storm force winds with just a t-shirt underneath and it’s good 🙂

The Nukeproof softshell is my main walking jacket now.

Then put a buffalo lite over the top in v bad v cold weather or proper waterproof.

Breathes really well, Fairly water proof. Esp after a bit of spray on waterproofing.

Warm and just have a single baselayer underneath to 5/6 °C when walking.

Hood not that good/ close very well though.

The waffle lining inside is the key factor I think.  I have other softshells (expensive ones) they are not as breathable I found.

But very impressed with the  as jacket overall and suits a wide range of temperatures ,some softshells get cold once u stop moving .

Marmot ROM

I had an old Helly Hansen waterproof and fleece in exactly that colourway.

In 1992.

😎

Sweet.

Buffalo, Shirley? The Special 6 would be a bit much, but the regular ones, or the Windshirt over a lightweight fleece would cover most bases, with a cheap Peter Storm packed away in case of heavier rain – the PS one will block the worst of the rain, the Buffalo will just get a bit damp.
That combo worked for me through several winters of ten-twelve hour days outdoors, until we got some fairly decent breathable hi-viz work jackets.
I’ve got one of the ex-military Buffalo analogue jackets, £30 off eBay, and frankly it does the job for less, with the same cheap waterproof over the top if it rains. Its only downside is it’s a smock top, but long side zips for ventilation. And one colour choice, olive drab.

But £30…

I’m not sure ‘soft shell’ as a term is very helpful tbh. It covers everything from fully windproof and functionally waterproof – they leak at the untaped seams – membrane stuff like Gore-Tex Infinium / Windstopper, through to non-membrane fabrics like double-weave soft shell stuff.

A lot comes down to how hot you run and how fast you move, but basically the more wind and water resistant the fabric the less breathable and comfortable the garment gets as you build up heat inside.

You can stretch that comfort envelope with zoning – some strategic areas insulated or windproof or not – and with venting, but  ultimately it tends to be a person-specific solution.  If I wear Buffalo, I pretty much vaporise instantly as soon as I move around unless it’s around -10˚C, which doesn’t make Buffalo bad, but means it’s not ideal for me.

Rab VR stuff is great for breathability. Gore Infinium is great tor wind and water resistance. Unlined Pertex Equilibrium, if you can still find it was a fab mix of just enough wind protection and enough breathability for people who run hot enough to struggle with standard issue, windproof Pertex. Ditto good double-weave softshell, used a lot for mountaineering shells and legwear by the likes of Rab. Arc’teryx, ME etc.

TLDR: you’re always balancing weather protection against breathability / moisture vapour transfer / comfort and where you fall on the comfort / absence of discomfot scale is very personal and varies with the conditions too.

ME Vulcan +1, I have one and I’d buy another tomorrow. I’m fortunate to have the build for it though, I can imagine it not fitting a lot of people.

As @badlywireddog says, soft-shell is a pretty much meaningless term.

at one end you’ve got something like the Rab Borealis which is only windproof through dint of a tight weave, has no membrane and not the slightest bit waterproof.  Brilliant winter riding outer layer in the dry. But I see they’ve dropped the ‘tour’ hoodless jacket and theres now a ‘cycle specific‘ version that looks like a backward step to me.

Looks like the RevRace Hiballs are half price again – surely a bargain as their stuff is killer value at full price

I’ve got one of their Whisper jackets (also half price right now) and very impressed with it. that’s a ‘quiet’ shell fabric as well.

i’ve been eyeing up a ME kinesis for a while.

So I’ve finally bought a Marmot ROMat a hefty discount from SportPursuit.

How’s the fit? I’m tempted myself.

ME Kensiss for me in winter. Rab VR Alpine for the other seasons.

Both are light, warmish, wind proofish, shower proofish, layer well under a shell, breathable and comfortable.

They also wick the sweat/rain away from your skin with the micropile magic so you feel conformable. A true goldilocks layer.

Got an Arc’Teryx Gamma LT off of Marketplace a couple of years back. The jacket was mint but the lining was seperating from the cuff and hem so I fixed it. Super comfy. Windproof. Bit stretchy. HUGE hood to accommodate a climbing helmet. Best bit was, it was 30 quid.

Also got an OR softshell, little heavier than the Arc but warmer as it has a thin fleece lining. Also under 50 quid.

Check out marketplace.

@chakaping : I’m 6’4″, long in the back rather than the legs, 42-44″ chest, 38″ waist… I bought an XL and it’s a little large, and even a little long (rucks up to use trouser pockets), on me. However wife, who has some training in this sort of thing, says it fits me nicely across the shoulders and is the right size. Otherwise, I might have been tempted to swap it for a large. I’m getting used to the length now… I think it doesn’t help that I’m far more used to jackets being a smidge short thanks to my back length. The extra size does allow a thick jumper under, which will extend its usefulness, doesn’t seem to create cold draughts either which I was worried about to start with.

I think it’s a good buy if you don’t mind the (as pointed out!) very retro colours; there’s a beige/blue version for £30 more (or, even more cracking value £54 for a black one… if you’re Small!).