Hi there all! Looking to get my first road bike, and toying it up between these. I want to do mainly road with 20% offroad hence considering the AWOL. I went to my LBS and really like the Crux and the Diverge but the carbon is out of my budget and I really don’t want aluminium. Then I saw the Planet X offerings that look really similair but 1/3 of the price. Anyone know if they’re any good?

Was looking at this one:
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRVICXDP/viner-super-prestige-dcx-carbon-cyclocross-frameset

And this one:
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRTOMO/tomac-montezuma-carbon-adventure—gravel-road-frameset

I can get the AWOL frameset for £600.
Would really appreciate some input, thanks! 🙂

AWOL vs On One Carbon Cyclocross

Comparing apples and oranges there really, apart from both being bikes with 700c wheels there’s not a lot of other similarities!

Need a bit more info on your actual requirements, 80/20 road/offroad is fair but when you say road do you mean sporty road, like occasional sportives, club runs etc, or just using the road to get to places?

Intending to carry much luggage? soft or racks and panniers? etc.

The AWOL is a brilliant bike/frame (I say that as an owner) but it’s very much a combo of a touring bike with an injection of 29er MTB, rather than a ‘road’ bike with some offroad capability. It’s great at what it’s great at but I wouldn’t recommend it as a first road bike if that makes sense?

The Diverge on the other hand, and similar style bikes no doubt, is also very good, and much more of a road bike which wills till handle occasional detours off the tarmac.

Are you set on building form frame or is a full bike an option? Sometimes, especially when venturing into a new genre, it can be bettter to buy an off the peg bike setup how ‘most’ people would set up a bike of that type, see how it works out for you and then work out if you want or need to tweak and change things, rather than trying to build something up while not actually knowing much about what’s goingt o work for you yet.

Fortunately for you the market for these kinds of bikes is massive at the moment with both niche and bi-market options available, so you’re bound to find something but be very clear about what you’re after and go and try some if you can.

Wow, thanks for all the detailed advice! I was actually looking to do long distance riding on it, minimum 40 miles a ride and I’m thinking a light carbon frame might feel a lot better than a steel frame after that distance, the steel frame might feel deadish after riding long? And I kind of wanted to ride say from London to Brighton but be able to go offroad a bit when I get there if that makes sense?

I do intend to carry luggage but I’m thinking I can just strap bikepacking bags, so panniers isn’t necessarily a requirement.

I totally get what you mean, ooh you have one? What do you think of it for longer distance riding?

And well the AWOL spec is so low, I could buy a 105 groupset and a better set of usedish wheels and have a much better bike for the same price, but I’m easy either way. I was actually looking at the Specialized Ruby which looks like a fantastic buy at £1400, carbon frame and hydraulic disc brakes, plus I can get £200 off too! I tried a women’s Dolce Evo in a 51cm and it was perfect, a men’s 52cm was much bigger and too big!

Thanks for the advice, I’m really grateful! And like I said I’m not too sure exactly, I just want something to fly on for long distances, I’m thinking a featherlight carbon bike would be much better for this?

OK, so to answer in order:

I was actually looking to do long distance riding on it, minimum 40 miles a ride and I’m thinking a light carbon frame might feel a lot better than a steel frame after that distance, the steel frame might feel deadish after riding long?

Material has very little to do with it regardless of bike type, it’s all about the design and application of that material and intended purpose.
Have a look at what gets used in events like Paris-Brest-Paris and other long Audaxes, it’s a mix of everything, and there are some supremely comfy steel frames out there, as well as harsh, likewise with Carbon alu etc. it’s all about how it’s actually put together.

Pay attention to the geometry too, CX bikes are often steeper, higher BB, and shorter wheelbase than an actual gravel/adventure bike, and tourers will be longer and slacker and lower. There are a LOT of blurred lines in this genre at the moment though and people interpreting things differently so just have a look at the geo sheets, make notes and if you can try some different bikes out, preferably ones that are different enough for you to see the +/- points of each approach 😉

I do intend to carry luggage but I’m thinking I can just strap bikepacking bags, so panniers isn’t necessarily a requirement.

That opens up a lot of options then if you don’t need rack mounts at all, but I will just throw a word of caution about strapping abrasive soft bags (that will move and rub) to Carbon, you cna do a surprising amount of damage very quickly with a bit of movement and friction, I’m not trying to put you off the carbon here, jsut make sure you heli-tape the hell out of any areas that are going to see that kind of interface, same goes for carbon bars and seatposts!

ooh you have one? What do you think of it for longer distance riding?

I do yes, it is awesome…at what it’s intended for.
It is very very comfy, very stable on the road, and handles offroad very well as well. It is a bit of a barge and will steamroller a lot of stuff, but that’s 80% down to the weight of my build and the fact I rarely ride it without some weight strapped to it somewhere, the lat 20% is down to geometry, long front centre (for a road bike it has a long TT and runs with a short stem) and longish chainstays. It’s also well equipped for panniers/guards, cages etc.

It regluarly does 20-30-40 mile round trips with me, and I wouldn;’t hesitate to ride it for longer BUT I wouldn’t and don’t deliberately use it for longer fastish road biased rides (75+ miles), I have a faster audax bike for that kind of thing. Touring is another matter as it would swallow up thousands of miles doing that, and if I were intending to also head offroad I probably would take it, but I’d also probably have built it up a bit differently with lighter components and wheels. The AWOL frame is not that heavy, but it quickly builds into a heavy bike if you don’t pay attention as it is more touring biased in my eyes.

And well the AWOL spec is so low

No argument there, the base spec model on paper is not great, ‘only’ having Sora etc. But the frame is excellent, and Sora is functional, cheap to run and very robust, again this is showing it’s touring leanings rather than sporty road or audax.

It is a great bike/frameset, but I’d struggle to recommend it for what it sounds like you’re talking about.

like I said I’m not too sure exactly, I just want something to fly on for long distances, I’m thinking a featherlight carbon bike would be much better for this?

Sounds like what you want is a road bike that takes big tyres, not really an adventure/gravel bike as such.

Diverge is a great option, as is the Trek 720, Giants offerings, Mango AR, PX London Road and many others etc. They are all road bikes with less aggressive geometry and will swallow 32mm + tyres easily which is fine for a bit of light off tarmac action if you’re careful. There are literally hundreds of bikes out there like this now so I suggest doing some more research and if you can try some of those kind of bikes, probably easier to look at the big brands stocked in shops here, even if you dont eventually go with one, but will give you a feel for how they ride.

Don’t get hung up on one material or another, when you do the maths it makes very little difference, decent carbon road frames are ~1kg, ‘heavy ‘ steel is ~2kg, so worst case is 1kg (2lb) difference overall on a bike, which is nothing once you have few bags and bottles strapped on, and also pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Comfort really comes from design and execution, not the material itself. Not to mention other factors like fit, contact points and tyres (massively!)

amedias that post deserves a pat on the back.

and if you can try some different bikes out, preferably ones that are different enough for you to see the +/- points of each approach

Great advice

Wow, I honestly can’t thank you enough for taking the time and effort to write all that up! I’m actually in awe. You seem incredibly knowledgable so thank you so much for sharing that with me!

Unfortunately I’m only more confused now. I’m really really confused because I really did think it was much simpler. I have no idea what to get now at all.

My LBS is a Specialized so I really wanted to get it from them as they can knock a fair bit off list price for me (£200ish!) and help me fit it. Unfortunately they don’t have much in my size at all. I did try a Dolce Ladies in a 51cm (I’m 5’5”) and it felt perfect, a Roubaix in a 52cm felt too big weirdly enough. Trying them and comparing them is a brilliant idea but I honestly don’t know if it would be possible. I don’t really know enough about geometry or what works for me to just compare it on paper, though I wish I did! Aggressive doesn’t sound good for all day riding

I am still liking the idea of the AWOL as a go anywhere bike, but mainly for road but you find it slow for longer rides? I do want to do touring on it, that is the idea I guess. I need to carry lots of water minimum 2liters as well unfortunately!
I’m really liking the look of the Spesh Ruby as well?

Thanks again! Wish I could buy you a drink 🙂

If you haven’t already watched them, I’d recommend these videos – you’ll see the AWOL is much more than a boring traditional touring bike.

A good review here too: http://www.bikepacking.com/bikes/specialized-awol-review/

I’ve got the Comp version (same as the frameset) and it’s a truly great bike, really versatile and the reason my mountain bike hardly gets ridden these days!

There’s nothing in that link! But that review really really really makes me want to get an AWOL! I might just get it instead of spending hours and weeks and months researching and then if I don’t like it just swap the frame? 🙂

Whoops, must have made a mistake – but if you go on youtube and search “melons trucks and angry dogs” it should bring up the videos by two guys that designed the AWOL and used them for the Transcontinental Race. About an hour in total but well worth a watch!

Mrs flap_jack has a Ruby. I have a Diverge. Both carbon, superficially they look similar. The Diverge has much more ‘heft’ about it though, which I hope means it’s stronger.

Mrs flap has done light off-road on the Ruby and found it fine, and it flies on-road.

You can’t attach racks to either.

Finally, why wouldn’t you want a smart-weld aluminum Diverge? You can attach rack/luggage to that…

I’ve just watched the beginning of this and I now want an AWOL too!

If you haven’t already watched them, I’d recommend these videos – you’ll see the AWOL is much more than a boring traditional touring bike.

absolutely agree with that! It is not boring or traditional, and it goes place offroad that it really shouldn’t, it’s just not as road biased as some of the other options you were looking at and how your initial description of what you wanted sounded, but it’s sounds a little as if you’re still either not 100% sure what you wan, or you want it all, which is no bad thing, just harder to cater for 😉

but mainly for road but you find it slow for longer rides?

I wouldn’t call it slow, it is slower* than my road bikes, but as I hinted at earlier that’s more to do with my build, if I took all the racks off, had built it with 105/Ultegra and put some faster tyres on it (note, fast, not necessarily small) then it’d be on a par with most normal road bikes, obviously not race bike fast but you’re not after that.

FWIW, a 105’d AWOL with lightish wheels and decent finishing kit will probably come in between 22-24lb, I’m sure you could go lighter if you tried, but that’s a ballpark. (The stock Sora build in small is about 26lbs off the peg)

One thing I will say is that I’ve not yet met or spoken to an AWOL owner who has been disappointed, I know of a few who’ve bought one, realised it wasn’t exactly what they wanted, but have kept it anyway and adjusted/expanded their riding to suit the bike, and at least one went and then bought another road bike to fill his fast bike needs but still kept the AWOL, so that’s a pretty good sign.

If you’re anywhere near Devon you’d be welcome to come and try mine, it’s a small as I have little legs so should fit, although I note they do a XS AWOL now too, that wasn’t available when I got mine, they are long in the top tube, but run with a short stem so fit is not typically road like, much more MTB with drops style.

A friend of mine has a Diverge/Secteur (XL though) which is also an excellent all rounder, I wouldn’t hesitate to have one if my offroad usage was less, as it is the AWOL suits me better.

Tricky position you’re in I can appreciate as you don’t want to get it wrong, and you’re trying to figure out what you need, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and go with the option that excites you most, as the most ridden bikes are the ones that you really like, as they are the ones you will want to ride.

*to put some figures on that, a regular post-work solo 20-30 mile road ride I do with a pair of panniers on normally averages at 15-16mph on the AWOL, on an unloaded road bike that same ride would be 16-19mph. The actual numbers are irrelevant as that’s me not you, but it illustrates the difference, but bear in mind I’ve never ridden that loop on a road bike with luggage, or on the AWOL without…

To echo/agree with the above principle (all below refer to road rides):

I’ve got a Cannondale Synapse 2*10 Carbon bike with Ultegra, 28mm premium tyres (8.4kg) which is my “fast” bike.
Steel Salsa Fargo 3*9 with Sora/XT mix, with luggage rack and 2.2 nobblies (14.5kg). Definitely feels slower than the Synapse and on a flat route which I do from time to time it is 15% slower than the Synapse on measured speed (surprisingly close). I don’t have any other direct comparisons. Hilly routes would be slower again.
Steel Salsa Fargo with nicer wheels/38mm slicks/racks and full mudguards (not sure of weight.. probably around 13.5kg). Feels way more comfortable than Synapse, able to keep up on the winter rides with my mates.
Titanium Salsa Fargo with 1×11, 35mm slicks (9.2kg). Same speed as Synapse. Supremely comfortable. Way more enjoyable. Less fatigue on longer rides, and faster on longer rides (perhaps as a result)

I’m 70kg, ride both Fargos with flat shoes, clip in with stiff road shoes on the Synapse. So on paper the Synapse rides should be faster and it is a “comfort/sportive” geometry bike so should be comfortable. The contact points on the 3 bikes are absolutely identical so my position is the same. Tyres are same brand (Compass).

My point? Don’t get too hooked on the specs on paper/other peoples opinion. Comfort and nice tyres (/wheels) trump pretty much everything unless absolute speed is the goal (isn’t for me/the vast majority of people I ride with..I don’t have any bikes set up for racing). My personal experience is that frame material per se is overplayed as a factor. Once I moved to high quality larger volume tyres, I honestly couldn’t care less whether or not a frame had more flex/comfort etc based on the material. It just seems to become less relevant as comfortable tyres seem just as fast and and make more of a difference than any other factors. I was set to buy a 2nd steel frame Fargo and building it up for faster rides when the slightly lighter Ti frame came up. I’m now going to sell the Synapse.

Hence how important it would be just to try a few out.. the difference between an out and out racer and a long “all terrain” bike with wider tyres will be very obvious. Problem is setting them up to have identical contact points, which is often difficult to persuade bike shops to do. Borrow some friends and do it that way. It is pretty straight forwards.

Just my experience. But not an unusual one it seems ….

My personal experience is that frame material per se is overplayed as a factor

Hmm yes and no. These guys think it’s very important.

FWIW I agree with them.

Of those two bikes in the original post the Super Prestige is defo a CX bike, shorter, tighter in the back and with a higher BB. The Tomac Montezuma is a more rounded bike and it’s been really comfortable on road and trail. The quality on both frames is bang on, we’ve not had a single one of either model back for warranty and the original R&D bikes are still going strong with 1000’s of hours on them. I was going to go for a road disc this season and squeeze some 28mm on there for crappy roads but the Montezuma put paid to that idea. It’s more versatile soaks up bad roads and it’s a blast out and down through the park and into the peak on a Sunday morning.

Have a look at the Norco Search range as well, last year they did a steel framed version which was comparable weight to the AWOL but it was half the price with Sora and mech discs. I bought one on R2W and have been hacking around on it for nearly a year now.
It sits in the same adventure/gravel category as the AWOL. Its heavy for a road bike and it hard work chasing down fellow commuters on the road but its really capable off road now I’ve fitted some suitable tyres (35c’s).

Don’t know much about the other bike you mention, but the AWOL is ace, loads of confidence off road on mine. Great with 40c WTB nanos. Mine is the entry level one, so pretty heavy.

My personal experience is that frame material per se is overplayed as a factor
Hmm yes and no. These guys think it’s very important.
FWIW I agree with them.

Actually Jan and crew are very much supporting the idea that it is NOT the material, but the specifics of the design and implementation of that material that is important. ie: you can build a harsh or comfy bike out of any material, it’s the design and specifics that make it what it is, not the intrinsic material.

Implementation is everything

I would echo that tyres (and your body position) will make more difference to speed than a small amount of weight. My commuter is about 12.5kg with rack and mudguards and a slightly more comfy position than my road bike (8.2kg), the speed difference now they have similar (same model but 28s on commuter vs 25s on road bike) tyres is 1mph or less on any given route.
Really I wouldn’t get hung up too much on specs or frame materials just make sure everything (including the handlebar shape) fits well and maybe consider 2 sets of wheels (or at least tyres) if some rides will be 100% road.
And remember, if you go for something that’s 15% slower that’s like riding 15% further…

you can build a harsh or comfy bike out of any material, it’s the design and specifics that make it what it is, not the intrinsic material.

Sort of. My reading is that a .7/.4/.7 steel tube is not the same material as a .8/.5/.8 steel tube, but I totally accept that your reading my be different but just as valid. I have 4 steel bikes. 3 plane, 1 doesn’t.

And they say a carbon Diverge planes, which is obviously a different material. I’d like to know their view of a smartweld Diverge.

Sort of. My reading is that a .7/.4/.7 steel tube is not the same material as a .8/.5/.8 steel tube, but I totally accept that your reading my be different but just as valid. I have 4 steel bikes. 3 plane, 1 doesn’t.

I see where you’re coming from, but I would say you’re referring to the design and details there. It is exactly the same material, just configured differently, in that case you’re talk king about wall thickness, but there’s still tubing diameter and the actual length and positions of the butting, and also joint options etc. but fundamentally it’s the same intrinsic material.

The same is true with carbon frames, it’s the layup, shape/profile and design that make the bike behave the way it does, not simply that it’s carbon.

The carbon diverge could easily have been made stiffer and harsher (and not plane/flex) than it is, it would still have been the same material though.

When reading Jans thoughts on planing you also need to remember that the phenomenon he describes is very dependant on rider, weight, style etc. one mans perfectly planing frame is anothers noodly mess if you are super heavy and powerful, likewise a very light spinner may find it overly stiff, but again this comes down to design specifics and whether it’s optimal for you or not, material is only one small aspect.

Hey all! Sorry about the late reply, been trying to get the money for the bike and I almost have it now!

I actually went to my LBS and they can match the £250 off I get at Evans on a Spesh, so going to get it from them! I was talking to owner and he much recommends the Diverge over the AWOL, he says it is generally a much better bike, much quicker and much lighter. The Smart Weld Diverge does look fantastic tbh. I just wish I could try them both but they said they can’t order in an AWOL unless I buy it because they’re quite hard to sell apparently. 🙁 The Diverge is another £200 which I don’t currently have so would have to save up for a while longer.

Amedias what you described the AWOL as is exactly the reason I want it! I don’t want something traditional or boring! And to be honest with you, endurance > all. I want to be able to ride for really long on it above anything, and the AWOL does look very very comfortable. Thanks for the offer to try it, that’s really good of you! I am in London so quite far, but I really appreciate the sentiment! The idea of having a steel adventure bike like the AWOL that’s got a nice weight to it, is as tough as nails and can be ridden all day, anywhere and everywhere does sound incredibly exciting, though the only question is, is that the reality?!

Douglas, thanks for your input! It is surprising to hear that you prefer the Fargo so much more, I have an ECR myself which I’m running with 1.95” Spesh Renegades, but I’m not enjoying it too much for road riding. It feels dead and is a lot of effort, and on top of that I really don’t find the flat bar position comfortable at all, or can’t seem to. I wish I could try one out but it doesn’t seem to be the case thus far 🙁

edit: Just seen the AWOL standard has a different tubing to the AWOL Expert frameset, standard cro-mo vs Reynolds 725, would the latter be noticeably better? And I really want to put a Dynamo on it, which the AWOL can but the Diverge can’t. One question I have is, would you guys buy the AWOL Sora for £750 or buy the Expert Frameset for £600 and build it 105? I could probably do it for under £1000.

The idea of having a steel adventure bike like the AWOL that’s got a nice weight to it, is as tough as nails and can be ridden all day, anywhere and everywhere does sound incredibly exciting, though the only question is, is that the reality?!

Yes.

The AWOL is superb. Not light, not sporty, just endurance above all, as you mention. My LBS has both the Elite and Comp in stock and sells them pretty often. It helps that they’re based in an area that really suits the style of bike (Wiltshire, Salisbury Plain etc). Lots of the locals want a bike they can commute on during the week and then hack around the tracks and trails of the chalk at the weekend.

One of the mechanics there built himself a “base level” AWOL as an all round tourer, and it’s lovely.

FWIW, I have a relatively pimp Diverge and adore it. However, it’s more on the road or speed end of the gnarmac/gravel/all rounder spectrum. The AWOL is far more of a touring/dirt track/all rounder bike. Slower, yes, but comfier and even better at tacking racks and touring.

Gearing is quite different between the Diverge and AWOL

I know that isn’t fixed but it’s a factor

I wouldn’t worry too much about the type of steel used (although I do have the Reynolds version 😀 ) – but think about whether you want the ability to run singlespeed & hub gears.The Expert frameset has a split chainstay and swinger dropouts for tensioning the chain. These are cool and allow you to adjust the chanstay length for different tyre sizes and ride characteristics, but are fiddly to set up, particularly the first time you try it.

If you don’t think you’ll need it, I would just go with the base model. You’ll probably also get it with the “Pizza Rack”, I’ve just bought one and it’s awesome!

Guess it’s decided, going to get the AWOL! Going to pop in tomorrow and order it, super excited! Thanks for the input Captain (:

And Steezysix, thanks for the advice, that was the only thing bothering me tbh! I don’t want to run it SS or anything, so the standard frame should be fine! And the pizza rack does look so, so cool! 😀

And the pizza rack does look so, so cool!

It’s a beer rack.

🙂

It’s a Pizza rack 🙂

AWOL Pizza Rack folds down to size of a pizza box; includes two Poler panniers with rain covers

The standard AWOL are all gone in small for this year, so ordered the frame only for £600 and going to build that up. Very excited, but nervous too! 😀