Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 41 total)
  • Specialised Butcher – not getting a grip!
  • Premier Icon hardtailonly
    Full Member

    So, picked up a pair of Spec Butcher 29 X 2.6 tyres for my Ragley BigWig build, they are the trail version in Gripton compound. But, I’m just not feeling confident in them. Seem to have a plasticky feeling to the touch, and whilst OK in the slop, are pretty twitchy on damp roots & rocks. Already on low pressures.

    I know damp roots & rocks aren’t great for any tyre, but given the size (wider and bigger than anything I’ve had before), I was expecting something a bit more sure-footed.

    They were cheap. But wondering if that was for a reason, ie whether they were OEM tyres in a harder compound?

    Should I persevere, or look for something better (at least on the front)? If so, what? Needs to be 29×2.5/2.6. Riding is local techy XC with occasional rides further afield, eg Lakes. Dabble (in a mincing style) down steeper/techy/enduro-ish stuff, but I don’t need a heavy duty tyre.

    Premier Icon hopefiendboy
    Free Member

    Yup had the 29×2.3s and felt the same. Only run it on the rear now and have something decent on the front either a Magic Mary or a DHF etc. they are hard-wearing. I’m after a spare rear-where did you get yours as I’m looking for some!
    Tia
    Paul

    Premier Icon hardtailonly
    Full Member

    I’m after a spare rear-where did you get yours as I’m looking for some!

    I think I picked up one from eBay, the other from Sigma Sports. I’ll be getting rid of one of mine if you’re interested in a 2.6?

    Premier Icon peteimpreza
    Full Member

    Been using these for ages (2.3 and 2.6 29″) as a front tyre.

    My experience is the total opposite.

    Plenty of grip and never felt so confident on the MTB since fitting them.

    Running them tubeless at as low a pressure as i can get away with.

    Premier Icon andybrad
    Full Member

    ok on the front at very low pressures. I found that as you go over 20 psi they get bouncy and feel skittish.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Full Member

    They were cheap. But wondering if that was for a reason, ie whether they were OEM tyres in a harder compound?

    Nah, I’ve had a couple of proper aftermarket ones and they behave as you describe.

    I still have a 2.6 blk dmnd Butcher on the back with an insert (because the sidewalls were not actually that tough), but I prefer the 2.4 DHR2 maxxterra on my other wheelset in the wet.

    Mildly terrifying on the front.

    Premier Icon hopefiendboy
    Free Member

    @hardtailonly yeah I’d be interested in one for the rear of mine. Mail me.

    Premier Icon hopefiendboy
    Free Member

    And seconded to above the sidewalls are not that tough.

    Premier Icon peteimpreza
    Full Member

    running mine mid-twenties ……….

    Premier Icon bearGrease
    Free Member

    I have Butcher+Slaughter combo in 2.8. Fitted them halfway through lockdown and they’ve been great, Strava seems to agree they make me faster (which is quite a feat).

    I’ve got a Michelin Wild Enduro + Maxxis High Roller pair ready to go on for Winter but as I’m lazy they’re in the garage still and I keep going out with the Spesh tyres on. Have done soaking wet Laggan, soaking wet North Third and slimy Ben Cathro trail and lived to tell the tale, in fact was thinking how well they were coping on Sunday. When it gets proper muddy I’ll put the other tyres on though…or just leave the bike in the garage until May ’21.

    Premier Icon davros
    Full Member

    Used to run butcher upfront and always found them quite grippy and predictable. But I’m not the gnarliest rider. I’ve been impressed with 2.5 high roller up front. Cheap at crc currently https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/maxxis-high-roller-ii-wt-tyre-3c-exo-tr/rp-prod183886

    Premier Icon Tracey
    Full Member

    Been using them for years in all the different compounds. Tried most of the other makes out there and revert back to them on all our bikes. Front is at 22psi and rear at 24psi.
    Got the 2.8s on the ebike running at 15psi front and 17psi rear.
    Not had a problem with the sidewalls.
    Don’t swap out over the winter although if I did it would be for the Hillbilly.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Full Member

    slimy Ben Cathro trail and lived to tell the tale

    I reckon anything apart from proper mud tyres would be equally useless on that ice rink.

    Premier Icon trickydisco
    Free Member

    Been using these for ages (2.3 and 2.6 29″) as a front tyre.

    My experience is the total opposite.

    DItto for me. swapped from maxxis years ago and ran butcher on my pitch and now on my levo. I’m honestly at a loss when i read so many issues with tyres and people’s experiences.

    Premier Icon dc1988
    Free Member

    I’m running Butcher 2.6 on the front and really like it, running low 20’s psi. I’ve previously been running DHF and Magic Mary and don’t feel like I’m missing them.

    Premier Icon SirHC
    Full Member

    Gripton, should of called it Slipton. The compound is really hard and the carcass is flimsy. Two hillbillys that I had pissed sealant through the sidewalls profusely, Spesh sent two more, they were a bit better.

    Ran a Hillbilly and butcher 2 years back, from October into January, struggled with grip, tyres didn’t show any signs of wear. Had to run them at higher pressures to stop them squirming.
    Chucked a Shorty/DHR on, night and day better, and in half the amount of time they showed signs of significant wear.

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    2.6 BLKDMND up front here, was great in summer, but has been dreadful since the leaves started falling, Mary going back on tonight.

    Premier Icon hardtailonly
    Full Member

    Interesting. Very mixed experiences. Have decided I’m going back to Maxxis. HR2, DHF or DHR on the front? How would you rank them? (I’ve had HR before, but not the DHF / DHR).

    Premier Icon hopefiendboy
    Free Member

    I’ve had the DHF in 2.3 size and it was ok. Predictable. This is riding at the Golfie and innerliethen so a fair mixture of trail types. Grip falls off with wear but on the front a 2.5 would be pretty decent. A magic Mary 2.6 front would.also be good.

    Premier Icon hopefiendboy
    Free Member

    In response to the specialized compound my rear butcher shows limited wear despite being on the bike from new. Lots of Golfie and other enduro riding done on it. Not quite so fussed about having a rear that lets go faster than the front.

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Full Member

    My lad uses a Butcher from Tracey, same compound etc… He loves it and seems to have incredible levels of grip.

    Premier Icon kayak23
    Full Member

    . I’m honestly at a loss when i read so many issues with tyres and people’s experiences.

    Agree.
    Newsflash- Roots are slippery! Wet roots covered in slippery mud are slipperyerer! 😉

    There is not a tyre, not a rubber shoe, not a bare foot that will grip when presented to a wet, muddy root at anything less than pretty much straight on.

    Roots are slippery. Many types of rock are slippery too. Every tyre is a compromise between the different types of terrain you will encounter on a mountain bike.

    If you’re slipping on roots it’s almost certainly technique or, there’s too many to ride every single one with good technique.
    As before, wet, muddy roots are slippery. No tyre will make that not so…

    I’ve run Butchers for years now. They really are a good compromise.

    Premier Icon Hob-Nob
    Free Member

    I generally reply to these posts & also agree with the majority, Specialized tyres are pretty woeful & are cheap for a reason.

    The Griptons are anything but, and the new stuff (T9/T7 etc). T9 – their grippiest compound yet! I probably put that on a par with a dual compound Maxxis (i.e. the worst they make).

    Always good when you see the Specialized riders running Maxxis tyres with blacked out logos for the whole season.

    Premier Icon glenh
    Free Member

    I’ve used 3 Butchers on different bikes in recent years and found them to generally be pretty good. I remember thinking they had loads of grip when first using one, switching from Maxxis tyres (admittedly on a different bike and reasonably worn).

    I did crash recently loosing the front on a wet off camber slab, but I also nearly fell over standing on a nearby bit of rock it was that greasy, so I’m not sure that I can blame the tyre.

    I think every tyre thread I’ve ever read has people saying X tyre is awesome, and other people saying it is terrible. Either people have different requirements, different terrain, and/or just base their opinions on a small number of incidents, either positive or negative.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Full Member

    As before, wet, muddy roots are slippery. No tyre will make that not so…

    I realise I’m absolutely pathetic for arguing about tyres on the web, but I think the point many of us are making is that Specialized Butchers give up that little bit sooner than quite a few other tyres.

    I ride a lot of wet roots and there’s a fair variety of capability between, say, a Butcher (awful), Minion DHF (doesn’t work for me), Mary (not bad) and my new Verdict Wet (the roots cower in submission).

    OK, I’m exaggerating the last one, but it often gives you a split second or so of grip which you wouldn’t normally expect, by which time you’re hopefully shifting your weight and getting past anyway.

    Still fell off about four times on last night’s ride though. Because as you say, wet roots are hard.

    PS. I found the Butcher washed out unpredictably in the dust as well. When I think back, it was always just as I was pushing for grip in fast corner or techy section. It may be that those who rate the tyre have a different riding style, and don’t rely on weighting the front wheel so precisely at specific moments.

    Premier Icon hardtailonly
    Full Member

    @hopefiendboy … PMd you.

    Premier Icon willard
    Full Member

    I have have just replaced a Spec Butcher with another of the same on the back wheel of my Stumpy. The combination of that on the back and the Hans Dampf on the front seems to work well enough on the rocks and roots round my local trail, but I did notice that it got progressively worse at finding drip as it got more worn and shitty. I am hoping the new one is better.

    FWIW it’s the GRID casing running tubeless (if I ever get the new rim laced onto the wheel).

    Premier Icon sharkattack
    Free Member

    I think every tyre thread I’ve ever read has people saying X tyre is awesome, and other people saying it is terrible

    That’s the problem with tyre threads on STW. I don’t know anyone on this thread but I bet some of them are 60kg’s and ride at walking pace on bridelways.

    Anyone who can run less than 25psi on a mountain bike is playing a completely different sport to me.

    For context I’ve used loads of Specialized tyres, usually because I was skint. Some of them are great but they generally lack support when you’re pushing on. There’s also something about the rubber that makes them quit before other brands when you’re leaning over and making them work for a living. There’s a reason why Specialized factory riders have a stash of Maxxis tyres and black sharpies.

    I haven’t used the newest ones with the optional compounds.

    Premier Icon mudeverywhere
    Free Member

    I think we need to differentiate between these and older Butchers, which were better, and the 2.8 size, which isn’t the same.

    I’ve found the current Butcher has a flimsy carcass, leaky sidewalls and the increased tread depth feels vauge and squirmy. Various reviews including bikeradar and GuyKesTV have said similar. Watch his recent Status or Stumpy Evo videos. I actually think the Purgatory or Ground Control are more secure feeling now because the knobs don’t fold over. Gripton isn’t the worst compound I’ve used but definitely doesn’t grip like Maxx Terra, but does roll better.

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    I think we need to differentiate between these and older Butchers, which were better, and the 2.8 size, which isn’t the same

    I think you’d need to further differentiate on what type of conditions and terrain you ride, IMO the BLKDMND 2.6 Gripton is a mile better than the old Butcher, for the conditions I ride

    Premier Icon mildbore
    Full Member

    I’ve used Spesh tyres for ‘low jeopardy ‘ riding and have always found the compound a bit hard and plasticky, prone to losing grip on wet roots. I quite like the moment of excitement when it gives way on an otherwise boring ride (eg gravel), but wouldn’t dream of using them on a trail bike

    Premier Icon lardman
    Free Member

    Also, for added perspective, i found the rim width to be much more critical on the Butcher 2.6’s i used. The sidewalls are quite thin and found them to roll very easily and feel ‘squirmy’.

    As a Heiffer, i sold them and went back to Maxxis tyres, but a wider rim may have had a better outcome?

    Premier Icon intheborders
    Free Member

    I bought a pair of 2.6 x 29.

    Just couldn’t get on with them, nowhere near as good as DHF/Mary/Wild Enduro/e13 etc for he off-piste riding I do in the Tweed Valley. Fine for XC etc.

    Sold to a chap who wants bigger volume XC tyres.

    Premier Icon sharkattack
    Free Member

    Also, for added perspective, i found the rim width to be much more critical on the Butcher 2.6’s i used. The sidewalls are quite thin and found them to roll very easily and feel ‘squirmy’.

    I found that. I thought I wanted wide rims and fat tyres so I tried Hope 35w rims and 2.6 Spesh tyres. I had a Hillbilly/Butcher combo or Butcher/Slaughter depending on conditions.

    The extra volume was great for speed and comfort in a straight line (and I thought it looked amazing) but I hated how vague and wobbly they felt on hard cornering. Very sensitive to pressure but I could never make them feel great.

    Now have 30mm rims and much tougher Michelins and prefer the precise handling.

    Premier Icon dc1988
    Free Member

    I agree with Kayak.

    Sharkattack, I’d be interested to know your setup. I used to think running less than 25psi was crazy but with tubeless and wider rims it’s completely fine. Many professionals run both tyres less than 25 and you can’t accuse them of riding slowly.

    For info I tend to run around 25psi in my rear tyre and 23 in the front (though I’m playing with lower pressures now I’m on 29mm rims). I weigh 78kg so over 80 once clothed and with a camelback and I ride pretty quickly, faster than average and I’m happy to hit a rock garden at speed.

    Premier Icon lardman
    Free Member

    I tend to run around 25psi in my rear tyre and 23 in the front

    This is my pressures, running 2.4WT tyres. But, i’m 110kgs. Haven’t pinched, or dinged a rim in a long time. Alps, BPW and general tomfoolery resistant pressures.

    Premier Icon robbie
    Free Member

    I’ve got a brand new buthcher for sale if anyone is interested
    Specialised butcher 29 x 2.3 grid 2 bliss tubeless ready. Brand new £27 posted

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Full Member

    That’s the problem with tyre threads on STW. I don’t know anyone on this thread but I bet some of them are 60kg’s and ride at walking pace on bridelways.

    Anyone who can run less than 25psi on a mountain bike is playing a completely different sport to me.

    Are you including Traceys daughter who uses them in EWS and my lad who does this on them ?

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    Anyone who can run less than 25psi on a mountain bike is playing a completely different sport to me.

    Typically 18psi up front for general local riding, Ae, Golfie etc. I’d up that to mibbe 20-22 for the likes of Top Chief, Lakes, Munro’s. Is that a different sport to what you do?.

    And I’m 30kg above your estimate!

    Premier Icon VanHalen
    Full Member

    I’ve always found them ok. I prefer a dhf but at £25 a go I’ll run them!

    Grids are better. Smaller volume better too.

    Don’t do measured tyre pressure but not soft as I find squirm horrible (hence the lower volume comment)

    Lots of mud and roots where I ride. Like LOADS. Just don’t brake. You’ll be fine.

    I think having the shoulder knobs in the same line as the centre blocks means you lose a bit of cornering grip as the shoulder knobs doesn’t engage as much as a dhf. Fine in most cases though.

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