Soul riders – set up Q

Hi

I have been building up my new Soul this weekend and just ventured out for a potter

Its a Large running Revs at 140mm
Im a lanky so and so – just over 6' 1"
It has a 90mm stem with 15 degrees rise

And more importantly a lay back post which was all I had going spare in the shed

Now its early days but Im not sure about the riding position even after 30 mins going round the block in the dark

So layback posts on Souls – yay or nay?

Cheers

nay

Nay – im selling my lay back post as im stretched out to much with a 90mm stem. I will replace with an inline one

Nay, I run my seat bang in the middle of an inline post.

I think probably unless you really need the longer reach, shorter stem is called for too, I'm running 60mm now which is maybe just a tad shorter than it needs for really neutral handling but it's a reasonable sacrifice I think, 70mm was spot on for allround use.

i do, but im 6ft on a med with a 90mm stem, 6'1 on a large you may well not. cy has written a bunch of stuff on set up on the cotic website for the soul. think he is partial to a bit of layback on a large but hes taller.

yay..

Nay

6 Foot 2, on a large. I don't like to be very stretched out to reach the bars though.

Matt

Mine's layback on a Large, but i'm 6'3. But I'm probably going to swap it for an inline post.

Nay

6ft2 on a Large Soda, 90mm stem

Cy sent out a newsletter last week which went into a lot of detail in exactly this area – I'd check if that's on the site somewhere, or let us know and I'm sure someone can forward it to you. FWIW I'm a very similar size and have just built a similar setup, but with an inline post.

Nay.

Get your weight over the forks and let them do the hard work! Layback would just push your C. of G. rearward. I'm 6'2" on a large, currently running a 70mm stem.

I've been answering a lot of questions about set up for the Soul and BFe on the forums recently, and it occurred to me that as well as prospective new customers benefiting from this, it'd be pretty useful info for anyone with a Cotic bike.

There's been a lot of 'what fork?' and 'won't Xmm forks be too long/short?' and a lot of opinion offered on these subjects on the forums, and in the magazines and websites, over the last few months. There's an element of personal preference going on, but also, riders tend to be very wary of moving their saddle and handlebar positions because of the comfort factor of a familiar set up, yet this can have the most profound effect on what your bike rides like. I include myself here too. It's only with playing around with a lot of different set ups (fork lengths, stems, bar heights, etc) over the last year or so that I've really, deeply begun to understand how this all works. Hopefully I can pass some of that learning on to you.

What Fork?

Let's get this one out of the way – it doesn't matter. This genuinely is preference. If you want to run 140mm forks on your Soul and ride tight singletrack, you go right ahead. Have you got forks with 'only' 100mm travel and think you can't ride the big rocks? That's rubbish. I've ridden both of these set ups and more in all sorts of situations, and it's fine. Sure there are limitations, but I've had some ace rides carving up between the trees on big forks, and I've been thankful of the familiarity of my 100mm forks out in the Peaks, or even in Luchon. What I can tell you is how to make the best of them.

Fear Not the Saddle Rail

The biggest problem people seem to encounter when running longer forks is wheel lift on climbs. The weight balance of the Soul means that with 100-120mm forks you can take pretty big liberties with your saddle position and your weight will still be nicely centred between the wheels. With longer forks this is still entirely possible, but you can't expect not to move some bits around to make it work.

Perfect example is my own Soul set up. I like 100mm forks on a Soul, but when I moved to the Peaks I wanted a slightly higher front end for the steeper, rockier trails, so I put a 17deg rise stem on the bike. I had a 20mm layback seatpost for some stretch, but the short forks meant it still climbed well.

When I needed to test the new Soul prototypes early last year , I stuck some Thors on, and I had all those wandery wheel problems. I'll have to credit Ian from AQR Holidays for pushing me in the right direction here, as he just put the stem as low as it'd go as soon as he saw my bike on a photoshoot last March. Literally 5mm drop in bar height made a noticeable difference. So I measured up my bike, and then put my old 7deg rise stem back on to bring the bars back down to around where they are with 100mm forks. Rolled my bars forward to where they are comfortable (the slacker front end had effectively rolled them back a touch), and the biggest difference – popped my saddle forward 10mm. I'd not touched my saddle position for probably 5 years. It's just not something you adjust once you think it's comfortable. It's worth playing with though. Cyclists have an aversion to it because of talk of proper fit, and that goes with it. That's true for a road bike where you're sat down for hours on end, but offroad it's really dynamic, you're always moving around and up and down out of the saddle, it makes much less difference to your comfort. However, it has a huge influence on the dynamics of the bike because it's managing the biggest mass (aka you) to best effect for handling.

These were all relatively subtle changes, but they transformed the bike. Sure, it felt a little odd for the first couple of miles, but you soon get used to it, and because all these things are small changes they don't take you out of a comfortable fit window on your frame. The converse is true, going the other way, and my 'long travel' set up feels worryingly 'over the front' if I just chuck 100mm forks on the bike again.

Play around with your setup; see what you can learn….

I still occasionally fall foul of this stuff. Just two weeks ago I tried out an experimental set up on the Hemlock with the stem right down on the headset, and this time the bars were too low (due to the integrated headset) and that just felt odd too. 10mm spacer in there and it was sweet. It's only really tall guys like me who can fall foul of bars being too low though, so for most of you I'd highly recommend you experiment for a couple of rides with dropping your stem right down to the headset if it isn't already. If the bike feels a little vague on climbs, slide that saddle forward 5mm or 10mm. Give it a couple of rides again. If it's no good, change it back, but you'll notice the big difference so you'll have learnt something. Let's face it, it's my job to know about this and I'm still learning, still making the odd mistake, so I really think you could get more out of your bike by playing around with this a little. I'm always happy to help if you want advice. Just drop me a line.

Thanks for riding a Cotic. Hopefully if any of this has helped you'll be having more fun pretty soon!

Cheers,

Cy
http://www.cotic.co.uk

Thanks for posting the newsletter up. I'd say at your height with forks that long, you'll want to move your saddle forward, and probably go for a lower rise stem. As I say in the newsletter, I use a 17deg stem on 100mm forks, but with 130-140mm I use a 7deg to keep the bars low and the weight forward. Don't going buying an inline post just yet as sliding all the way forward on your layback post will be about as far you'd want to put your saddle forward anyway. Also, 90mm is pretty long forks that long, especially if you're running wide bars (over 700mm, say). I'm 6ft 3in and I used to run the saddle a way back on a layback post with a 90mm stem and 670mm bars with 100mm and that's an ace fast XC/singletrack position. But these days I have the saddle maybe 10mm further forward, and an 80mm stem on 710mm wide bars with longer forks (I have Menja130's on my Soul right now). There's a bunch of stuff going on with set up and it's all quite subtle in terms of the amount you move components. If you or any Cotic owners ever have any issues with set up, drop us a line. We're always happy to help people get the most out of their frames.

there's nothing to add really after that, however i will as i am the same height as you and have nothing better to do…

with 130mm forks i ran an inline post bang on centre on the rails with a 70mm stem which felt ace, 'specially on "aggro" trails when you could stick your elbows out and really pin it to the floor, it also helped on the climbs.

with 100mm rigids a longer stem and the saddle a smidge further back, hey presto you have a <slightly portly> xc racer!

inline post on mine, large, 6ft 1" 90mm stem but going to try a 70mm at some point

Just a quick addition – I spend most of my time singlespeeding with my Soul, and only put the gears on for trips to the lakes or the Peak.

Singlespeeding, I like to have the saddle a bit further back. Because most climbing is done out of the saddle, you don't get much wheel lift. However as soon as I put the gears back on the saddle has to go forward again or I lose control on the seated climbs.