(Sorry!) Ski or snowboard?

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  • (Sorry!) Ski or snowboard?
  • jfletch
    Member

    I can’t believe how judgmental everyone has been over something that should only have practical implications

    I think it’s because all of the practical implications are negative.

    jaymoid
    Member

    I think it’s because all of the practical implications are negative.

    That’s debatable… And I was referring to the amount of stereotyping of people who do a slightly discipline of winter sport. From both sides, skiers and snowboarders above. Then someone comes along and suggests something different and a bit more of an outsider sport, and they get instantly flamed and told that they look stupid/like a sex offender. There was a time when mountain biking was an outsider sport too.

    Premier Icon ads678
    Subscriber

    There was a time when snowboarding was an outsider sport and still is some resorts.

    But Blading is just for chav’s who have got a free ski holiday for mugging old women isn’t it?

    There was a time when mountain biking was an outsider sport too.

    Despite decades of trying, however, blades remain as popular as monoskis, but nowhere near as cool!

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    To the OP, if you want to get a good handle on snowboarding before you start getting lessons etc then I highly recommend this book:


    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Go-Snowboard-Neil-McNab/dp/1405315741

    (I realise it looks awful – but Neil McNab is a credible guy, it’s a good book that teaches modern technique)

    There is a ski equivalent BTW, but I’ve no idea if it is any good.

    jaymoid
    Member

    Yes, that’s 100% factually correct, everyone who has ever snowbladed is a chav who muggs old ladies, even David’s wife above! Unlucky David, ads678 said so!

    *belm*

    david47
    Member

    I’m still hiding behind my snowboard… As for the wife, she no longer needs to mug anybody, she knows where my wallet is ๐Ÿ™
    Oh, then again there is the minor fact that she moved on to be a very competent skier very quickly thanks to those few days as a chav opps, sorry, blader…

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    I can’t believe how judgmental everyone has been over something that should only have practical implications

    Are you including “your friends will disown you and no one will want to ride with you” in the “practical implications”? ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Blades are like ski-onesies.

    They should only ever be worn ironically or for a bet. ๐Ÿ˜€

    Premier Icon ads678
    Subscriber

    Jaymoid, as a snowboarder i would have thought you’d be a bit less serious ๐Ÿ˜‰

    ocrider
    Member

    The main difference between blades and the other alpine slidey sports are that ALL the others don’t fail miserably when the snow is more than ankle deep, which is quite often.

    By all means, if you think it can be a useful learning tool (or a shortcut to skip snow-ploughing, which is IMO, an inevitable part of the learning curve) try it out, but get on something longer with a useful flex, edge and sidecut ASAP if you are ever going to contemplate fast, controlled turns on any moderate to steep slope without looking like you’re going to the toilet during an earthquake.

    Premier Icon stevomcd
    Subscriber

    Just to throw my tuppence-worth in:

    The only truth in the “skiing is easy to learn, hard to master, snowboarding is hard to learn, easy to master” guff that always gets spouted in these debates is that a low-intermediate snowboarder can get around a lot more of the mountain than a low-intermediate skier.

    This doesn’t mean he/she has learned more quickly, it’s just that basic snowboard technique will take you to more places than basic ski technique.

    Snowboarding to a high level of performance and technical skill is every bit as hard and as complex as top-level skiing.

    BOTH are awesome by the way. Choose the one which calls to you loudest!

    Premier Icon davieg
    Subscriber

    I snowboard, or at last I used to until life and kids got in the way. Hopefully I will get out for a few days this year.

    I skied a little previously and then swapped to snowboarding. Like most previous comments, I found that the learning curve for snowboarding was very steep, so I fell about loads in the first few days but quickly developed sufficient enough skills to reasonably scoot around the resort. And then one day things just clicked and that was that.

    I am sure skiing must be easier now that carver skis are pretty much the standard, so maybe the learning curve is about the same.

    Toss a coin, you will have fun either way.

    Edit: I would like to try skiing again as I cannot imagine taking my kids out in Scotland, whilst on a board.

    Premier Icon davieg
    Subscriber

    stevomcd has more eloquently expressed the point I was trying to make.

    Premier Icon colp
    Subscriber

    +1 for Go Snowboard DVD and book.
    Got it 20 years after teaching myself how to snowboard (badly).
    It helped correct some very bad technique.
    Now I get totally stoked when I ride my board in a rad/gnarly fashion. People think I’m sponsored.

    Premier Icon Speeder
    Subscriber

    GoSnowboard DVD is good if I remember correctly and McNabb is a great instructor. I took one of his backcountry introduction courses over 10 years ago and it was fabulous – he even got me riding switch reasonably comfortably as he’d managed to break the technique down so well it was just follow this ABC and you’re done.

    Admittedly I haven’t been able to recreate the feeling since and I’ve probably relapsed into some old habits but technique when I think about it is generally ok based on his teachings.

    Oh and you’ll love Serre Che. Hope you have a great holiday whatever you choose.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    I don’t know if any resorts still offer it but I learned to ski donkeys years back by the “Ski Evolutif” method (or graduated length or direct parallel)in Les Arcs. You start on 1m skis then increase every two days (to 1.35m and then 1.6m) doing parallel turns from the start.

    I do agree though with an earlier post that snow plough (and stem turns) are valuable techniques in certaim circumstances but they are pretty easy to add in afterwards.

    I never fancied snowboarding, largely because I don’t like trousers which look as though you’ve pooed yourself.

    david47
    Member

    Didn’t the ESF kill off the start on blades “Ski Evolutif” as the method was too quick and they did not make enough money ?

    jfletch
    Member

    Didn’t the ESF kill off the start on blades “Ski Evolutif” as the method was too quick and they did not make enough money ?

    Economics would say no.

    If it was the best way to learn but the ESF chose not to use it then there is “money on the table” for a rival company to pick up by offering this method. But they haven’t, which suggests that it’s not viable.

    This is probably because to learn that way you need a load of extra equipment to keep changing ski lenght which is expensive and it produces skiiers who can “get down” steeper pistes but can’t actually ski so are f’ed once the conditions aren’t perfect and can ski at speed but not in control.

    I never fancied snowboarding, largely because I don’t like trousers which look as though you’ve pooed yourself.

    Go gaper on a carving board!

    Mugboo
    Member

    Been riding 16 yrs and plateaued out as average ages ago but love it ๐Ÿ™‚

    I reckon all those years ago snowboarding design used to give an advantage off piste but now the gap has narrowed or maybe disappeared?

    The only disadvantges I see with skiing now are the boots and their ability to tear your knees apart. Offset this by perfect, forward facing vision and the ability to carry those off piste flat sections.

    Having said all that, I’m going to carry on snowboarding.

    Mugboo
    Member

    There’s a ski Evolution 2 in Les Coches but I have no idea how they teach.

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    slowoldman, baggy trousers are so 10 years ago, it’s all about the skinny pants now. Partly cos of hipsters, partly cos of Shaun White, partly cos skiiers jumped on the baggy trousers look.

    And that’s ignoring the obvious fact that you can wear whatever you like.

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    Offset this by perfect, forward facing vision and the ability to carry those off piste flat sections.

    You know your neck? It turns!

    Also, I’ve found having my shoulders in line with the board presents a significant aero advantage over forward facing skiiers. really does make a difference. Obviously there’s wax job, base quality and technique in there too!

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    I give you the epitome of baggy trousered snowboard thuggery, Mark Frank Montoya:
    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAn2LtPKJVM[/video]

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    And snowboard legends David Benedek and Jussi Oksanen having a go at snowbladers snowblading:

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQYIQemS0iU[/video]

    Now, I think we can all agree on this…..

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    Sorry, spamming this thread a bit!

    I reckon all those years ago snowboarding design used to give an advantage off piste but now the gap has narrowed or maybe disappeared?

    In terms of outright float, yes, skis have got bigger, meaning some of the technique in keeping the skis up is less important.

    But the difficulty in soft snow is in keeping the balance between far enough forward to keep control, and far enough back to keep the tips up. That’s all done between your toes and your heels. Keeping that balance between front foot and back foot on a board gives you a lot more margin to work with, which means that balance is easier to control and easier to correct.

    Imagine trying to keep your balance stood up on a train or tube without holding on. no corners, so it’s just braking and accelerating. Would you rather be stood sideways, or facing forward?

    And in terms of float, you can get a board as big as you like!

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    CFH, there are a lot of silly snow inventions around; most of them have at least one redeeming feature. But those? โ“

    shifter
    Member

    Fit in suitcase.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    This is probably because to learn that way you need a load of extra equipment to keep changing ski lenght which is expensive

    I would be inclined to agree.

    and it produces skiiers who can “get down” steeper pistes but can’t actually ski so are f’ed once the conditions aren’t perfect and can ski at speed but not in control.

    I would be inclined to disagree. Certainly the group I learned with skied in control. Sideslipping was also heavily integrated into the course with the result that most of us could get down reasonable terrain slowly and safely even though at that stage we hadn’t learned to snowplough or stem. I didn’t see anyone abandon skiing in favour of taking off the skis and walking down which I thought was a good sign.

    It may well be that modern compacts are easier to come to grips with without the need to be “eased” into them with shorter ones.

    jfletch
    Member

    Sideslipping was also heavily integrated into the course with the result that most of us could get down reasonable terrain slowly and safely even though at that stage we hadn’t learned to snowplough or stem.

    People on snow blades always look like they are muscling the skis through the turn (which is easy on a blade as they are short and light) rather than turning effiecently. This appears to give them a perception of control since the skis can easily be positioned as desired. However the blader is only ever at the edge of control since they don’t have proper technique to control the ski and the edges are so short they can’t stop or turn effectively, they therefore become “hockey stop” skiiers, zig zagging down the mountain from one skidded stop to another to control their speed.

    This may feel like control and the ability to get down everything but its not, its brief periods of out of control falling followed by tiring, thigh buring stop after tiring, thigh burning stop.

    A skiier who learns by snowploughing should develop nice S shaped turns with control though the turn and speed control via direction of travel rather than skidding to a near stop in every turn.

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