Sorry- another wood burner query.

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  • Sorry- another wood burner query.
  • I’m just about to buy a mid terrace bungalow in a village and as the property doesn’t currently have gas (no gas in the village) or oil it only has electric storage heaters. Whilst the storage heaters are fine I would like to have a woodburner installed in the living room. It’s an early 80’s built bungalow, mid terrace with no chimney or chimney breast.

    What options am I looking at (if any) and what sort of money should I be thinking about realistically spending? Obviously with it being mid terrace the only option I would have would be up and straight out the roof unless I put the woodburner at the back of the living room with the flu coming out the back wall into the back garden (living room is at the back of the property).

    SD-253
    Member

    There is a British company that makes and designs its own stoves called Burley which are the most efficient in the world as a stove only. The link also shows you the most efficient burner that heats water. Think about electric outings so a nice flat top. I have kettles on there all the time. Plus cook the odd stew on there. http://www.pembrokeshirestoves.co.uk/stoves/

    5thElefant
    Member

    Straight up will be cheaper than going out the back. There’ll be around a grands worth if flue and hearth, plus the log burner, plus fitting. So £2k+

    Unless you have a cheap source if wood it’ll be cheaper to use electric heating.

    Premier Icon bedmaker
    Subscriber

    I’ve just priced a similar setup in a bungalow. £1750 to supply and fit a top quality twinwall system and a Brazilian slate hearth.

    This is not allowing for any fireproofing to the rear wall as they want an Ild 1 stove which has 100m clearance to combustibles at the rear.

    So around 2-3k and up through the roof then. We’d need a flu and hearth, the living room is currently a featureless square with a storage heater attached to the wall. We have a good free wood source (Inlaws extensive wood piles).

    Premier Icon bedmaker
    Subscriber

    Another vote for the Burley here too.
    I’ve fitted several now. The claims they make sound a bit gimmicky but they really do live up to the big promises they make.
    The flame pattern is easily the best I’ve ever seen, even better than a Clearview.

    I’ve been looking at getting what I thought was a simple twin wall system installed and not got a quote below £3k + stove yet. Simple = straight up though the roof about 1.5 stories up. Not giving up yet and still looking for quotes, but very surprised by how expensive it seems ;(

    Z.

    hydrophil
    Member

    The flame pattern is easily the best I’ve ever seen, even better than a Clearview?

    Thats some claim to make. Before installing our burner 5yrs ago, I looked at all of those on the market at the time. Clearview stood out a mile on fuel efficiency and ease of air control and maintenance (i.e. if you burn well seasoned timber, you will hardly ever have to clean the glass) This is indeed true :-).. only downside was the cost and youll be looking at £1k for their most basic model (PIONEER 400) but they are British made and a good company to deal with. That said on price, they hold their value well so if you do ever move, you’ll sell it no problem. We spent about £2.5k for the stove, hearth and external flue.

    The key to making a decision is do your research. Lots of stoves on the market but a few stand out: morso, clearview are two of the best IMO or how about a Hotpod? these look v.cool..

    http://www.hotpod.co.uk/the-story-of-hotpod-multifuel-stoves.asp

    Good luck!

    Thanks folks. It will be a central feature of the bungalow so I don’t intend to opt for cheap and cheerful. Both the clearviews and the burleys look good.

    Might be a silly question, but does having a wood burner installed tend to increase home insurance costs at all, given the added fire risk etc? I’d obviously be having everything professionally installed.

    sharkbait
    Member

    +1 for Clearview, we have two at the moment they’re brilliant. Both bought off eBay and refurbed by me with a complete strip, cleaned, resprayed and new seals/firebricks. Look and perform like new.

    hydrophil
    Member

    Make sure your stove is installed to building regs requirement and you obtain a certificate from your installer (who should be Hetas registered)

    b r
    Member

    I’ve been looking at getting what I thought was a simple twin wall system installed and not got a quote below £3k + stove yet. Simple = straight up though the roof about 1.5 stories up. Not giving up yet and still looking for quotes, but very surprised by how expensive it seems

    Agree, I was a bit surprised too – ours came in at that kinda price, worth it though 🙂

    SD-253
    Member

    .hydrophil – Member
    “The flame pattern is easily the best I’ve ever seen, even better than a Clearview?”

    Thats some claim to make. Before installing our burner 5yrs ago, I looked at all of those on the market at the time.
    He is a fitter and fitted both. While you have no way of comparing. It does give him an advantage over you. I like the idea of drawing the air directly from the outside. I didn’t quite realise that you are actually drawing air from inside your house and up the chimney. I am actually considering replacing my excellent little Scan. I probably won’t, because I doubt it make sense economically but definitely consider it. If I do I will combine it with heat movers from
    http://m.clasohlson.com/uk/view/content/search?N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=heat%20mover&Nty=1&D=heat%20mover&Ntx=mode+matchpartial&Dx=mode+matchpartial&showTabs=true

    SD-253
    Member

    Do not use heat mover with a long pipe it won’t work. Nor blowing down from ceiling.

    grum
    Member

    br – that burner looks quite small for the space and don’t you lose a lot of heat going up? I am far from an expert though. 🙂

    trail_rat
    Member

    Those heatmovers look noisy…..

    I have closable heat vents above door and in my celing of living roomto the bedroom allowing convection to move heat about,

    sharkbait
    Member

    He is a fitter and fitted both. While you have no way of comparing. It does give him an advantage over you.

    TBF does he hang around for days to see how the flame pattern develops?
    To add some balance, the fitter we used now only fits Clearviews as he’s sick of customers complaining that stove doesn’t perform as they’d expected (i.e. control/glass sooting) and presuming it’s a problem with the installation.

    I used these to spec and design my flue fluesupplies.com

    It came in at just under £700 for the complete flue system, running through the loft in a bungalow.

    It is being fitted by my builders but I have a major problem as my Building Control will not sign it off. I was complaining about that on an earlier thread. It is being installed as per the appropriate building regs, pretty straight forward. The hardest part is getting the flashing and roof modifications good and weathertight.

    The problem with no sign off may become an issue when I come to sell or if my house burn do. However, the building officer has left me in an impossible position. Basically builders on site, hole in my roof where an old chimney was and flue in my hallway.

    The HETAS installers were quoting some ridiculous prices and I have heard some horror stories.

    core
    Member

    My mate is a builder, and just going through the process of getting HETAS registered, after doing the courses he said it opened his eyes as installations previously done by HETAS installers on jobs he was doing were nowhere near standard and some outright dangerous……

    I would question your building control department about why they will not sign it off, tell them you know other authorities do, and ask if they are part of LABC.

    5thElefant
    Member

    The problem with no sign off may become an issue when I come to sell or if my house burn do. However, the building officer has left me in an impossible position. Basically builders on site, hole in my roof where an old chimney was and flue in my hallway.

    In reality it won’t. No one cares, solicitors included.

    I would question your building control department about why they will not sign it off, tell them you know other authorities do, and ask if they are part of LABC.

    I have. They are adamant they are not going to sign it off. It was like banging your head off a brick wall! Their main reason is they say they do not have the expertise to perform commissioning tests, which is basically a smoke test. I have read the regs and the checklist seems extremely simple to me.

    I hadn’t heard of the LABC, might try that route. Although it’s all a bit late now.

    In reality it won’t. No one cares, solicitors included.

    5thElefant That’s quite reassuring. I take it you have bought or sold a property with stove recently?

    trail_rat
    Member

    I have but in scotland….

    Solicitor nor the surveyor didnt even mention it had a stove…let alone an incredibly dangerously fitted one.

    core
    Member

    I wouldn’t be so sure about the above re: solicitors, we have a lot of search requests for property sales, surveyors will pick up minor stuff and ask for certificates, even new windows, boilers & woodburners.

    LABC stands for Local Authority Building Control, it is in effect the national body for council building control departments, they issue guidance, provide training etc, and to some level decide what we do and don’t do, if for nothing else than try to achieve some consistency across the country…………. http://www.labc.uk.com/

    The checklist is very simple. If they don’t have the expertise in house then they should be prepared to use a 3rd party contractor (though they would be able to charge extra), we do exactly this for electrics when a Part P contractor hasn’t been used, we have a NAPIT elctrical inspection guy who tests works on our behalf.

    The checklist is very simple.

    Agreed. However, the bloke I was dealing with was a stereotype local authority bureaucrat. Quoting paragraph numbers and trying to make the whole thing far more complex than it is.

    core – I really hope you’re not all like him, if you are then your office would be a grim place to work! 🙂

    I am where I am now, all I can do is photograph my sub floor and hearth before I lay the wood flooring and lay the slate hearth. I have no intention of moving for quite sometime, after moving home 3 times in 5 years!

    5thElefant
    Member

    5thElefant That’s quite reassuring. I take it you have bought or sold a property with stove recently?

    I have bought one. Electrics, stoves regs etc, solicitors simply don’t care if there’s no paperwork. I certainly didn’t care. I guess other buyers might but the advice is not to.

    shedbrewed
    Member

    Burley Debdale owner here and it’s a cracking little stove. Room size is 8x4m an it heats it plenty well enough. I bought mine, and flue, pot, cowl VE pipe from a company in Forest of Dean; Hale and Co as they were 1) incredibly helpful and 2) the cheapest and 3) quite local

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    I have bought one. Electrics, stoves regs etc, solicitors simply don’t care if there’s no paperwork. I certainly didn’t care. I guess other buyers might but the advice is not to.

    this is what indemnity policies are for. Cost me £30 last time I sold a house.

    Premier Icon bedmaker
    Subscriber

    I wasn’t intending to start a fight over who’s stove looks best! Just saying that Clearview was the benchmark for prettiness when burning but imo the Burley has surpassed it slightly.

    To add some balance, the fitter we used now only fits Clearviews as he’s sick of customers complaining that stove doesn’t perform as they’d expected (i.e. control/glass sooting) and presuming it’s a problem with the installation.

    I supply a pack of Hotties or Verdo and put on the first fire (unless it’s a cast stove) so the customer can see it working as it should with dry fuel. I’ve never had any issue with complaints about poor performance/tarring since I started doing this. Not that it has ever been a big issue.

    The whole insurance, building control issue is a horrible mishmash of grey areas and misinformation ime.

    A local plumber burnt his house to the ground after fitting a stove and twinwall. Insurance ppaid out no problem, no questions asked about who/ how it was put in. Lucky for him!

    trail_rat
    Member

    Bedmaker , your in scotland right ? Things ike that are different for us, probably why no questions

    Premier Icon bedmaker
    Subscriber

    Aye, Scotland near the Sneck. HETAS system in England is far better. It’s coming in here through the back door though, driven by insurance companies, property developers and architects etc.

    Really bugs me when I see shoddy stuff done by HETAS guys though. It should be spot on but often isn’t.

    trail_rat
    Member

    Agreed but lack of regulatory checks and fitters interpretations + using it like a money making cartel makes a mokery of the whole system.

    Ive posted what the previous owner had fitted or at least signed off by a hetas registered chap before i moved in before. Total joke, found half a cut up coal scuttle welded to a thin bit of steel rammed up the chimney and combusables ( which fair enough may have been added later) within 100mm of stove on all sides and behind ( basically boxed in with mdf) and a kerb stone for a lintel.

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    Bungalow? Check
    No chimney? Check
    Sitting room at back of the house? Check

    We have a Firebelly stove (made in Britain – Yorkshire admittedly). Total installed cost was c£3k. Twinwall has two 45 degree bends in it to get the exit point nearer the apex of the roof to avoid having too much chimney swinging around in the wind outside.

    Am on phone now – go to my flickr page (link in profile) and you’ll see a couple of photos.

    b r
    Member

    grum

    br – that burner looks quite small for the space and don’t you lose a lot of heat going up? I am far from an expert though.

    Big space, and big burner (it’ll take 18″ logs) – but yes, heat rises 🙂

    What you can’t see is that the 1st floor balcony opens onto the landing, which warms up, along with the bedrooms

    The supplier thought that the internal flue was probably worth 1kw, but it’s us that wanted it inside.

    Bungalow? Check
    No chimney? Check
    Sitting room at back of the house? Check

    We have a Firebelly stove (made in Britain – Yorkshire admittedly). Total installed cost was c£3k. Twinwall has two 45 degree bends in it to get the exit point nearer the apex of the roof to avoid having too much chimney swinging around in the wind outside.

    Am on phone now – go to my flickr page (link in profile) and you’ll see a couple of photos.

    Perfect. Cheers. I’ll take a look.

    SD-253
    Member

    .trail_rat – Member
    Those heatmovers look noisy…..

    I have closable heat vents above door and in my celing of living roomto the bedroom allowing convection to move heat about,
    If i recall they are 25 decibels so reasonable.

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