Viewing 17 posts - 81 through 97 (of 97 total)
  • Social Mobility
  • RustySpanner
    Full Member

    mefty – Member
    Nursing degree applications in England down by 23% since the introduction of fees.
    I am not saying the policy is perfect, just that when looked at as a whole it has been more successful.

    In what way has it been more successful?

    Afterall my wife became an RCN nurse where she worked as a trainee nurse and studied at the same time, why do you need to spend three years at university to become a nurse, has it changed so much? Her oldest friend became one (not RCN) without highers (they are both Scottish), there must be new solutions.

    Good question.
    Some info here regarding changing roles and increased responsibilities.
    Link.

    THM

    Mefty, indeed the lack of innovation and competition in tertiary education is sad. Where are the shorter, focused courses, where are links to industry and business, where is the competition to ensure better standards and VFM?

    How would you like to see things progress?
    And if you believe that increased competition is a positive step forward, do you accept that equality of opportunity and funding across the sector is a prerequisite?

    kerley
    Free Member

    There is a lot of data out there on private schools showing that they are no better.
    The reason people send their kids to private schools it for the opportunities provided by the fact the person has attended such school. That provides a massive advantage that those not attending do not get, i.e. a social mobility disadvantage.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Is that how you made your choice Kerley?

    I have already indicated rusty. Genuine innovation in terms of content and length of courses. A wider range of courses and much closer links to industry and business – note the Bath model – options to do same courses over different time periods, greater links with foreign units

    No I do not accept quality of opportunity as a prerequisite. Oxford and Cambridge should still be able to discriminate on ability and charge more for the privilege IMO (with flexibility to offer financial support too). Better quality units should be able to charge more. Ditto subjects that have higher student contact should be able to charge more than those that don’t

    Plus lots more

    If someone choses to leave school and start work for himself or for someone else he should not have to fund others different choices. Both may be correct choices and they should lie at the individual level not a comprehensive catch-all solution. That rarely works especially in education

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    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    If someone choses to leave school and start work for himself or for someone else he should not have to fund others different choices.

    Really? Thats what you think?
    Does the same apply to health care? Roads? Pre school places?

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    There is a lot of data out there on private schools showing that they are no better.

    How do they make the comparisons? It would appear to me to be very hard to do.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    Thanks for the response THM.

    I’m sure you will be unsurprised that I disagree with you fundamentally.
    🙂

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Which is fine ! Enjoy.

    binners
    Full Member

    Worth listening to Pienaars Politics from yesterday

    Mark Steele absolutely nails it on the Tories record on social mobility – skip to about 8 minutes in 😆

    kerley
    Free Member

    How do they make the comparisons? It would appear to me to be very hard to do

    The data I have seen often takes a view of very similar pupils at point of entry. Then compares the exit grades of those pupils

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    The data I have seen often takes a view of very similar pupils at point of entry. Then compares the exit grades of those pupils

    Would like to see this data

    andyrm
    Free Member

    I’d say a real opportunity in creating true social mobility would be state supported relocation packages from “dead” areas with no work, to areas where there is demand, on the proviso that the recipient has found work.

    Social mobility shouldn’t just be free university education to allow people to study (sometimes on courses that do nothing to increase their employability), but to actually allow people of all statuses to better their lives and income.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    I’d say a real opportunity in creating true social mobility would be state supported relocation packages from “dead” areas with no work, to areas where there is demand, on the proviso that the recipient has found work

    On the face of it not a bad idea but it would cause problems for those left behind. Closing the so called North/South divide by investment in infrastructure may help social mobility more.

    ctk
    Free Member

    The best educational system in Europe is Finland and they have no private schools.

    If you were going to design an educational system from scratch then… but we are where we are and its tricky.

    Dickyboy
    Full Member

    Social mobility starts at a very young age, by the time you have got to education at 18 plus a lot of disadvantages/advantages have already been set.
    Locally there is a huge gulf between grammar and non grammar schools, many people paying for private education up to 12yo to get into the state grammar system and the secondary schools are handicapped by the difficulties surrounding excluding disruptive pupils.
    Ironing out people’s disadvantages is never going to be possible but sure start and weighting of funding of inner city schools was a push in the right direction which the Conservatives are now abandoning.

    kerley
    Free Member

    Would like to see this data

    Don’t have it online but a good chapter in “Inequality and the 1%” along with references to studies in US in “Freakonomics”

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    I dont doubt you Kerley but I’d be amazed if private schools didnt out perform state schools with similar starting point pupils given the massive inequalities in class sizes and spend per pupil and that before you tried to account for things like negative effects from more disruptive kids in the state sector for example.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Good to see some talk of flexibility in course lengths today. About time. Wish it would go further and see some genuine competion in tertiary education.

Viewing 17 posts - 81 through 97 (of 97 total)

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