Or will he wait until Assad is firmly back on the throne?

He’s played the west perfectly, Brexit was a brilliant gift for him, he just needs LePenn to do his work in France and the EU will be right where he wants it

Bearing in mind that Clinton’s email hack came from Russia.
Trump has claimed that he wouldn’t necessarily honour the NATO pact?

Ernst Stavro Blofeld s got nothing on Vlad!

Putin has already got his troops in place, NATO are concerned enough to put 300,000 troops on stand by

http://theweek.com/speedreads/660322/300000-nato-troops-are-high-alert-face-russia

I’d say either Ukraine or the Baltics. Maybe not by Christmas but it’s certainly on the cards…

Not this Xmas but certainly next Xmas.

I remember the Cold War “joke”

What’s the definition of a tactical nuclear weapon?

One that lands in Germany!

Remember this –

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06zw32h

We’re all doomed.

Could Trump make as big a mess as previous presidents? Look at the Federal debt, the middle East.

Maybe the guys a genius.

I don’t think we’ve seen any geniuses in control.

I think Putin would probably want to wait till Trump takes office, which isn’t until 20th January 2017.

Quite likely ‘subversive’ propaganda to make sure defence budgets can be maintained and future weapons projects are justified.

With of course the additional benefits of instilling fear and worry and further dependence on the minority in power across all aspects of society; not to mention ‘divide and conquer’ of the populous.

Whilst the internet and social media have been a platform for the masses to communicate and coordinate, news stories of government inspired hacks, lack of security, again helps to reign in the social potential that technology is providing.

Not a conspiracy theorist per se, but it all does make me wonder sometimes

I assumed he was already there.

You lot aren’t doing a very good job of cheering me up.

What a load of crap: –

Brexit was a brilliant gift for him, he just needs LePenn to do his work in France and the EU will be right where he wants it

Lolz. Clearly you can read his fiendish mind.

Bearing in mind that Clinton’s email hack came from Russia.

No. Ukraine. After Podesta lost his phone in a cab. Ukraine, Russia. Close enough though, eh comrade?

Trump has claimed that he wouldn’t necessarily honour the NATO pact?

Why is this Putin’s fault? I spilled my coffee this morning, do I blame Putin?

Putin has already got his troops in place, NATO are concerned enough to put 300,000 troops on stand by

Have a look at a .gif of NATO’s encroachment of Russia. And you criticize Putin for the perfectly reasonable step of moving troops within his own border? How about everyone chills the **** out instead? Starting with NATO. Then Russia. Hopefully Trump can get NATO to chill the **** out, then everyone can get around a table as equals. Is that so bad?

Why would Putin want to be in Ukraine by Xmas? I suppose you think Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. If Russia wanted to take Ukraine they could be in Kiev in 3 days. You really think Putin (or Obama / Trump) would risk WW3? I suppose over a million Ukrainian refugees were forced at gun-point (all led by Putin personally) to ‘flee’ to Russia too?

Instead of ‘speed reads’, perhaps you read something other than the news equivalent of a cartoon book with chewable pages; enlighten yourself.

He’s played the west perfectly,

No he hasn’t he has been watching from outside the window in the cold and rain, his folleys in the Crimea and Syria may play well to a Russian crowd but they are not a threat to the west, his country is bankrupt and getting worse while he spunks money on games. His latest show of power, a decrepit aircraft carrier with a tug in case it broke down again, sailing through the channel was laughably sad.

I have no doubt he is a psycopath, and that makes him dangerous purely because of his nukes. But nothing that is happening in the world to the detriment of western powers is his doing, we are bringing this shit on ourselves.

Ah, Schnor – the influence of Trump already…

– Disputing others opinions as worthless. Check!
– Being insulting about the capabilities of others. Check!
– Presenting own position as indisputable fact. Check!

Only racism, mysogyny and expressing attraction to own offspring to go!

Soviet Union & Russia – now they are synonymous…

Well Obama is Commander in Chief for another 100 days, so I suspect Putin will wait till Trump is in power before invading….

100 days, Ok in by Easter then 😉

As for the email hack …. Well it wouldn’t be the first time that Russia has attacked the west from Ukraine and tried to blame them, flight MH17 for example.

Only racism, mysogyny and expressing attraction to own offspring to go!

Please, don’t stop on my behalf. But thank you for being offended on behalf of someone else; its very STW (and insulting me whilst objecting to an insult, plus a Trump dig = STW cubed!).

Well it wouldn’t be the first time that Russia has attacked the west from Ukraine and tried to blame them

You’re quite right. Russian operatives could very well have used a Ukrainian proxy to hack Podesta’s account and gone “Look, the IP is from Ukraine, not us”. My point being is that the ‘Russian Hacker’ narrative is nowhere near as simple as “The Russians did it”, because there is no proof Russia did it. They might have done, but there is no proof.

Re. MH17. Again, you’re right, Russian forces could have ‘done it’. I’ll keep it brief. Where is the proof? John Kerry (US Sec of State) said repeatedly in the days after the tragedy that U.S. intelligence had detected the launch and knew exactly where the missile came from.

So, why did the Dutch Safety Board after a lengthy investigation still not come up with anything more exact than a 320km square area? If the Obama administration had solid evidence showing that the launch came from rebel territory, which was Kerry’s insinuation, U.S. officials would have been only too happy to provide the data. They didn’t. Why not? And ask yourself why was Putin being blamed personally, literally minutes after the crash.

Again, my point (eventually) is that nothing is as clear cut as it being ”Putin’s Missile”. (a nod to the Sun’s infamous headline).

BTW, sorry for my grumpy first reply – nothing personal.

Please, don’t stop on my behalf. But thank you for being offended on behalf of someone else;

Hey, I didn’t say I was offended. More pointing out the obvious.

insulting me whilst objecting to an insult

Come on, I didn’t insult you at all. I made three observations about your post that aligned with ‘Trumpism’.

Kind of related as the whole thread relates to potential action by the Russian government as a result of Trumps election.

Let me be clear though – the rest of the Trump comparison was not meant to be taken as a serious insult to you – more a topical and timely jibe at Trump himself. I should have made that clearer and didn’t. If you took it as such, I apologise.

friend recently attended a wedding in the Ukraine, somwhere a long way from Kiev… about 4 hours by car. anyway, in his hotel he met a load of British squaddies.

turns out they are there providing training to the Ukrainians.

things are still on the boil in the west of the country.

remember watching a talk by a think tank (Chicago Think Tank?) where they were saying that the area stretching from the Ukraine down to Syria is where WWIII will take place and it may not be too far away in the not too distant future.

Putin has already got his troops in place, NATO are concerned enough to put 300,000 troops on stand by

Why on earth should NATO Intervene in the Ukraine?

No worries jamj1974 🙂

alpin raises a very interesting point; US / UK forces can support Ukrainian forces and everything is peachy, but when Russia supports pro-independence forces (essentially native Russians) in Donetsk / Lugansk it’s “Russian aggression”.

Meanwhile Kiev still hasn’t implemented any parts of the Minsk agreement but bizarrely Russia always gets the blame for ‘violating’ it. Please everyone, read it, the points are quite clear – and it doesn’t even mention Russia once!

Finally, ninfan also brings up an excellent point. Ukraine isn’t a member of NATO, it’s still after all these years never been explained to me why NATO are building up troops there.

It’s nuts.

If only Hillary had one, she’d have gone to war with Russia no doubt. What a missed opportunity!

That Gif is rubbish, it may have escaped your attention that Russia occupied those countries at the end of the WW2.

Why on earth should NATO Intervene in the Ukraine

There’s a lot of NATO countries in that area that are veeeery worried, namely Poland and the Baltics. Last year Poland doubled its defence budget!

Why on earth should NATO Intervene in the Ukraine

Ukraine requested NATO assistance after Russia annexed Crimea?

Ukraine had applied to join NATO but Russian stooge yanyukovich ditched the plans, they’ve since requested again

Speak to a Ukrainian, they are very concerned about Russian plans for their country

Have a look at a .gif of NATO’s encroachment of Russia

Russia is huge, countries in NATO cover what, maybe 15-20% of its land borders?

Countries previously under the Russian sphere of influence seem very keen to join NATO at the earliest opportunity, its almost as if they have experienced something and do not want a repeat?

Aracer posted this on the Trump thread but it’s all connected, man

https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/history-tells-us-what-will-happen-next-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.b5kol28lz

As @muppet says Putin is already in Ukraine, he is controlling half (?) of the country – Crimea is now Russian plus a big chunk of Eastern Ukraine and the fighting has never stopped. Vicenews has been following the story whilst most press oitlets have stopped.

The West has used everything from signals intelligence operations, espionage, fighter jet saber-rattling, and diplomatic standoffs to stem the rise of Russian influence around the world. These efforts are coming to a dangerous head in Ukraine — a classic Eastern Bloc proxy state — where the presence of NATO troops is driving tensions to Cold War-era levels.

As the armed conflict between the Ukrainian army and Russian-backed separatists enters its third year, VICE travels to the frontline to take a closer look at what international assistance really looks like for those caught in the line of fire.

[video]http://youtu.be/e7D4r8OTgTw[/video]

Putin’s move into Ukraine was a direct result of intereference by the EU/European countries and overtones to have them join EU & NATO. A foreign policy disaster. As usual Europe looked to the US “to do something” and Obama said (quite rightly) “your problem, you sort it out”. Trump is going to be much more reluctant than was Obama to get involved.

Putin is well aware Europe is weak, unless it’s a direct attack on a NATO member he knows that any responce will be pretty much non-existant. The ex Lithuanian defence minister was on Newsnight yesterday boasting how they will have increased defence spending from 1% to 2% by 2018. The US spends 3.6%. Europe thinks it’s safety is the US’s responsibility.

Europe isn’t weak militarily, it’s weak because there is no will for war. Most people haven’t forgotten the last century and are extremely reluctant to get involved in conflict. Sanctions would have more impact if enforced but we keep buying the gas.

I’m working on the principle that at the rate we’re collectively regressing, we can expect the first border skirmishes with Yorkshire before the week is out.

So I’ve just installed two of these on the battlements, and I’m presently boiling up oil….

Ukraine requested NATO assistance after Russia annexed Crimea?

So? That’s like trying to take out car insurance the day after a crash

Ukraine had applied to join NATO but Russian stooge yanyukovich ditched the plans, they’ve since requested again

You mean the democratically elected president who was unconstitutionally ousted in a coup? (Yes, check it out, the constitutional process was not followed)

Speak to a Ukrainian, they are very concerned about Russian plans for their country

You don’t think that Crimea/eastern Ukraine should have a right to unilaterally declare independence from Ukraine and join another federation… interesting.

OK, I’ve used up my 30 mins for lunch on this. For starters Russia didn’t ‘annex’ Crimea. Crimea voted overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia after a western-backed putsch – with even stratfor calling it “the most blatant coup in history” – which saw the (admittedly) unpopular but democratically elected President being ousted.

Ukraine had applied to join NATO but Russian stooge yanyukovich ditched the plans, they’ve since requested again

No. Ukraine only wanted to join NATO after the putsch. The vote back in 2013 related to Ukraine wanting economic ties to Europe (as opposed to keeping ties to Russia). Ukraine haven’t even voted to join NATO yet.

They voted no, which was apparently the wrong answer. Remember Victoria Nuland? ‘*** the EU’, ‘yats is the guy’ and the Freedom cookies? Look at the dates; 04/02/14 – the putsch was on 22/02.

Re. criticisms of the .gif. How about this instead?

And why would so many countries want to join NATO? Could it be to do with the billions of dollars of military assistance? Indeed, historically, Poland has always disliked Russia so any chance for a thumb in the Russians eye would be popular.

Anyway, is there any evidence Putin wants to invade Europe? Why would he want Latvia? What’s in Latvia he wants so much?

jambalaya – Member
As @muppet says Putin is already in Ukraine, he is controlling half (?) of the country

Whut? Personally?! Look at the map of Donetsk + Lughansk. And you haven’t provided evidence that it’s Russian controlled. Speaking of which it’s been 2 years and i’ve still not seen any evidence of Russian troops in Ukraine (other than the ‘little green men’ who were already stationed in Crimea in the naval base).

Incidentally, and it’s a subtle point, the so-called ‘rebels’ aren’t pro-russian. They’re pro-independence. If they wanted to join Russia they would have voted to do so (like Crimea). Would some people here say the people of Donetsk + Lughansk have no right to self-determination? As ninfan rightly points out.

I couldn’t watch video but does it mention neo-nazi’s, or the 10,000 dead civilians in Donetsk and Luhansk (and don’t even think about blaming Russia for them), or the dozens burned to death or shot by snipers in Kiev? How about NATO’s promise not to expand “not as much as a thumb’s width further to the East”?

jambalaya – Member
[it] was a direct result of intereference by the EU/European countries and overtones to have them join EU + NATO

Exactly. Think for a second if Russia overthrew the Canadian government, started pointing missiles at the US, and started killing Americans living in Canada (amongst MANY other things). Would you expect the US to take it lying down? Why are people surprised with Russia has said ‘enough’?

Russian aggression indeed 🙄

[edit]

Jeez I can’t half go on can’t I? 😯

I was wrong, he wants to be in belgrade by xmas

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/11/serbia-deports-russians-suspected-of-plotting-montenegro-coup

MSP – Member
…His latest show of power, a decrepit aircraft carrier with a tug in case it broke down again, sailing through the channel was laughably sad…

Aye, but Putin’s carrier has actual planes on it….

That can take off and land again whilst carrying a very light load as they are very weight restricted due to the carrier design.

Ming the Merciless – Member
That can take off and land again whilst carrying a very light load as they are very weight restricted due to the carrier design.

Still better than our no-plane carrier…

And a ‘light load’ is still rather nasty when it’s coming at you.

Russia supports pro-independence forces (essentially native Russians) in Donetsk / Lugansk

That’s a strange way to describe shooting down a Dutch airliner

That’s a strange way to describe shooting down a Dutch airliner

Please read this. Properly read it, not skim it.

Meanwhile…

I’d forgotten the newest smear. “Russian fingerprints”; very evocative and Machiavellian 🙂

So lets examine – in the Guardians own words – what fingerprints were found: –

Serbia deports Russians suspected of plotting Montenegro coup

Wow, the headline sounds like it’s a slam dunk! But I wonder what’s hiding at the bottom (where hardly anyone will read up to): –

A security analyst from the region, who did not want to be named, said his understanding from intelligence sources was that the incidents in the Balkans were probably linked to Russia

So most of the article is based on an ‘unnamed source’, who got it second hand from another unnamed ‘source’, that something is ‘probable’. Clearly Putin himself was involved, personally.

Meanwhile ‘Diplomatic sources’ (far more believable than ‘unnamed sources’, but not ‘intelligence sources’) also say: –

A group of 20 Serbians and Montenegrins, some of whom had fought with Moscow-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, were arrested in Podgorica, the Montenegrin capital.

Some? Is that a number now? Some? 1 is ‘some’. So possibly 1 not-even-Russian who were associated with someone else who was ‘backed by Moscow’. This Putin fella gets around.

In Serbia, meanwhile, several Russian nationals suspected of coordinating the plot were caught with €120,000 and special forces uniforms.

Serbia? Isn’t the story about Montenegro? How do they link the two other than being ‘suspected’ of something? Suspected how? So we’ve got ‘several’ (2 or 3 then) Russians suspected of something, being caught with cash and special forces uniforms. Whose uniforms? Is having cash (yes a large amount) indicative of some sort of assassination attempt?

I could be linked to the Hindenburg disaster less tenuously.

I recon Nicola Sturgeon is a Russian sleeper

I recon Nicola Sturgeon is a Russian sleeper

Don’t be daft. It is clearly Give who is a Ruskie.

I could see Gove defecting 😉

but our government arent happy with Trump apparently aligning himself with Assad and Putin

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/12/trump-putin-alliance-sparks-diplomatic-crisis/