And **** it, have you seen the state of Labour’s finances since Starmer took charge?

The current fiscally prudent operation have managed to turn an 11 million surplus to dust.

They shouldn’t be allowed near Monopoly.

Earlier this year @RachelReevesMP told the @ft that her party’s shambolic finances were “another inheritance from the former leadership”. Of course she wasn’t pushed back on that by Jim Pickard.

Look at the figures here. She wants to be the bloody chancellor! pic.twitter.com/c89UlTtTXr

— Aaron Bastani (@AaronBastani) August 18, 2022

Starmer and Reeves exist to keep the Tories in power. Nothing else would explain their totally shit decisions.

If only they understood when in power a government deficit was a private sector surplus.

Anyond remember Mark’s post – yes him, the co-owner – about playing nice and Drac’s occasional reminders of the same?
This thread is a perfect example of why many posters stay away from politics threads.
It’s like shouty drunks having a slanging match when so few others have any interest in the verbiage and bile.
Utterly pointless windbaggery.
This thread, Starmer, Brexit – yep, all politics related.
It’s time for some posters to either grow-up or clear off.

It’s like shouty drunks having a slanging match when so few others have any interest in the verbiage and bile.

I’ve reported personal insults before and nothing got done.

This thread is pathetic.

It’s hard to take anyone’s views seriously when they resort to childish name calling and stupid sexual insults.

I’m certainly not the arbiter of these things but I do wish some people would either grow up or go away.

Just checked the thread title. I can tell you who it won’t be: starmer, Corbyn the labour party.
I come here to shake my head at the gammony madness but instead it’s another version of every other politics thread.

And utterly predictably, yet another thread ends up with the same spirit-crushingly tedious 5 people banging on and on and on and on and on about Keir Starmer…

This was meant to be about the Tory leadership, but you just can’t help yourselves, can you?

Aren’t you meant to be on Twitter hashtaggimg every post #Corbynwasright?

He wanted to get rid of trident too… We’d probably all be frantically trying to learn how to speak Russian right now if he’d have got into power. Out of the EU and with no nukes, lol!

As I always say whenever I hear the “if we hadn’t won the war we’d have been speaking German now” bollox.

Give it 2 more pages before it’s locked 🔒

If we can’t be nice here what hope do we have as a country.

Everything is so binary… things are more nuanced. I know its hard to portray sarcasm or irony on text as there’s no inflection in text but I’m with @frankconway on this.

Anyway I’m of to yell into a bin and buy shares in Shell.

The debt payments are quietly becoming a material burden – Rishi knows this is unsustainable so he ****ed off (he didn’t give a shit about Boris)

So much of a nonsense.

Given only a tiny fraction has ever been paid ‘back’. (Swapped)

The government and BoE can always meet its sterling obligations.

This was meant to be about the Tory leadership, but you just can’t help yourselves, can you?

And the Tory leadership exists outside regular politics because?

Doesn’t really matter you make every single thread about Brexit anyway.

I could say the same single person trying to control the threads. There does at least only appear to be you in your club.

At least we have 5 oral friends.

I come here to shake my head at the gammony madness but instead it’s another version of every other politics thread.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to note the political landscape doesn’t exist in one corner and occasional mention of linked subjects should ebb and flow.

Otherwise who decides where it start and ends? Brexit is sort of done and the thread title is about the next Tory leader but one member can’t fart without mentioning Brexit in asterisk covered posts.

And after all the next leader’s success is partly based on the Starmer too.

These things are linked.

Politics is complex, there are no right or wrong answers and political persuasion and leaning is a strong emotional part of some people’s lives. Of course there will be heated conversations, name calling when a bit out of control etc,. but you cannot isolate one conversation (the next tory leader) from all over political stuff (Brexit, economy, Starmer) as they are all intertwined.

If anyone needs to grow up it is those who have not yet realised this.

Better than I put it Kerley.

But don’t expect me to feel guilty about saving a few quid on a building job

I want is the rich and multinationals to pay tax like everyone else

Surely you’re getting exactly what you asked for? Or are we saying, its ok for some people to be bad as long as other people are being more bad.

Let’s recap. After calling me a tax-dodging hypocrite Stumpyjon went on an unhinged and unprompted rant about Corbyn. I don’t know why, but he seemed a bit peeved about brexit. Then Ernie responded with an entirely sensible and serious post about the weaknesses in stumpy’s argument which set binners off on a foul mouthed rant. Is that what we mean by ‘grown ups’? TBH I don’t care, this is a pointless Internet forum not the Oxford union. But really if people want sensible discussion then maybe start by not calling people with dissenting voices extremists.

Surely you’re getting exactly what you asked for?

I already explained up the thread. It’s not comparing like for like. By all means focus on the little guy for avoiding a tiny amount of tax on a plumbing or building job, but all you’re doing is blaming the victims of a system which forces them to take such action, while the real criminals are not just ignored, but celebrated.

Oh dear Rone has woken up, maybe set yourself a rule of letting at least 5 other people post between your posts, that way we might have a conversation rather than you just shouting at people.

How can anyone say this with a straight face?

Because it’s true, not everyone believes that it’s all the fault of a few nasty politicians, unfortunately your extreme left rhetoric seems to assume every working person is some upstanding beacon of hope crushed by the rules of society. They are not (as typified by dazh eager admission he would happily evade tax if he could, you know that illegal thing we all condemn the uber wealthY for). In your free money for all, UBI world things would fall apart completely, many people need some sort of coercion to contribute to society, were seeing that now Brexit has sent many Europeans home, we don’t have near full employment because the economy is doing well, it’s because we’re scrapping the barrel for people capable of working, who can actually turn up each day, do what they are paid to do and not have a fight at lunchtime. An increasing proportion of our society is like this. Yes we have out of control fat cats but it’s not the full story, people like Starmer get this, Truss focuses on the working people because that plays well to her often non working fan base and the far left demonize business because that plays to their prejudices. I don’t understand why you hate centrists so much, is it because they are not you?

Anyway back on topic, Liz Truss and we’re all screwed, particularly the majority of people who’ve been living a lifestyle society couldn’t afford. The bubble is bursting, credit is maxed out and Corbyn and Cameron committed collective economic suicide by taking us out of the EU.

your free money for all, UBI world things would fall apart completely, many people need some sort of coercion to contribute to society, wer

I’m not an advocate of UBI.

And neither is it part of MMT.

Same old misunderstandings. And what is free money?

You’d do yourself a favour by learning monetary operations of the UK.

And utterly predictably, yet another thread ends up with the same spirit-crushingly tedious 5 people banging on and on and on and on and on about Keir Starmer…

……….

Aren’t you meant to be on Twitter hashtaggimg every post #Corbynwasright?

Not disagreeing with your point of view, but see how easily they drag you into it? Again?

Corbyn didn’t take us out of the EU. Silly thing to say. He was asleep at the wheel during the Referendum campaign with no clear position but don’t blame him.

I’m not a fan of Corbyn. I think he wasted a great opportunity to  remove the Tories.

Stumpy have you been hanging out with dannyh? Been a while since I saw posts dripping with such unbridled snobbery against working people and those who find themselves at the bottom of the economic spectrum. It’s Thatcherism on steroids, so I’m confused at your apparent dislike of Liz truss when you seem to agree with her so much.

How much do you have to earn before tax avoidance becomes illegal in your world?

20k?
30k?
40k?
100k?
Combined household of 55k as long as no one is earning over 25k?
Perhaps its only available to people who own a VW work van regardless of how much they earn, you could tie it into the lease agreement.

Is it only tradesmen or can other people avoid it. We’ve had a string of bad orders and are struggling but own our building, can we avoid it or do we have to sell the building to pay our tax bill but tie ourselves into private rents which will slowly strangle us while lining the pockets of richer people?

I think this is what people mean when they talk about your Utopia, your ideas are as well thought out as a Tory leader candidate.

Your left wing utopia is an unworkable pipe dream

Aha, but if you can convince yourself that all the communist regimes of the 20th Century failed only because they didn’t use the right kind of communism you can convince yourself of anything…

Like (what seems to be the bollox du jour) convincing yourself that kleptocracies fail simply because they have involved the wrong kind of kleptocracy.

Still, just in case, Priti Patel (in office solely because of Brexit) managed to get through draconian laws effectively outlawing protest, just in case. Another triumph for the working class Brexiteer.

I’d say the revolution is just around the corner, LOL!

As for not paying Tax I think dazh is at least being honest I mean cash jobs are the preserve of the middle class landscape.

First person on here want to pipe up they’ve never done this?

The problem is not the paying in cash – it’s up to the tradesperson to pay their tax.

Let’s also remind again income tax doesn’t pay for anything – the reason to tax billionaires is they hoard wealth on a different scale to your local tradesman.

(I pay corporation tax, income tax and paye knowing all of this.)

How much do you have to earn before tax avoidance becomes illegal in your world?

Why are you even thinking about it when the likes of Amazon and Facebook pay no tax at all? It’s the equivalent of worrying about the number of deaths cyclists cause on the road rather than doing something about the real problem.

Aha, but if you can convince yourself that all the communist regimes of the 20th Century failed only because they didn’t use the right kind of communism you can convince yourself of anything…

Communism who mentioned that?

But we do enjoy the benefits currently of the free market.

Not disagreeing with your point of view, but see how easily they drag you into it? Again?

Binners was ‘dragged into’ making highly personal insults and using deeply offensive language?

Does he have no self-control?

Imagine in PAYE was scrapped and everyone got paid in cash with no paper trail. How many people would be honest about their earnings and fill in their yearly tax forms completely accurately. Not many I would wager.

Give people an opportunity to doge tax (trades paid in cash or billionaires paying experts to help them get around tax rules) and they will.

Given only a tiny fraction has ever been paid ‘back’. (Swapped)

Sunak wasn’t talking about paying back Capital, but the ongoing paying of the Interest.

Back to the same subject we’ve previously discussed…

I think dazhs point is purely one rule for them.

Fully agree the big multi nationals need to be taxed properly and fairly. This then would hopefully encourage people further down the chain.

The fact they make so much money that’s then locked away offshore is a crime. This lot won’t help in bringing it back to the treasury….

This threads way off topic anyway

@stumpyjon

If it is any help, I like to read the posts of dazh, ernietruss, rone, dissonance (can’t remember the other one right now – that’s how much notice I really take) in the voice of Stephen Fry when he’s doing his parodying of extremes. Nice and measured, very Jackanory. If you’re really feeling extravagant you can end each one with the words “because that is how the world works and that is it” with one eyebrow slightly raised.

It seems there is still a place for satire after all.

But we do enjoy the benefits currently of the free market.

More precisely we currently enjoy a mixed economy although thanks to people confusing that with a free market (or ranting about communism) we are being dragged further towards a free market with the inevitable consequences that brings.

Why are you even thinking about it when the likes of Amazon and Facebook pay no tax at all?

So only businesses should pay tax?

You said it was ok for tradesmen to avoid it, I’m not a tradesman, just wanted to work out where I stand. I assumed it was unfair to based acceptable illegal activities on career choice so basing it on income would be more fair, the builder across from me looks to be earning more than me so I presume I can stop now too?

If Amazon pay do I have to start paying too or will their revenue cover everything? If they don’t pay and I don’t pay then who pays my NHS employee wife?

The only people who ever bring up Jezus are the centrists.

As for the homophobic insults- not nice.

Some pertinent questions there @thepodge

So it’ll be another white noise day from the Singletrack Six – with the odd personal attack thrown in (but only on those they perceive to be susceptible – that’s how it works).

I just had a dreadful thought – is it because they have taken Mark’s post about cost of living etc as a sign that STW might not be around forever? So they will have to have the last post on every single STW thread?

Totally off tangent but we were anyway. Image if you could only post 5 times a day on stw. People wouldn’t be able to rant quite so much & might have to think first.

I’ve used my magical quota up.

Corbyn didn’t take us out of the EU. Silly thing to say. He was asleep at the wheel during the Referendum campaign with no clear position but don’t blame him.

Hmm. Not sure that’s true. A 3 line whip to push through A50 makes his position fairly clear IMHO.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/07/labour-three-line-whip-to-force-mps-to-back-unamended-brexit-bill

Anyway back on topic, Liz Truss and we’re all screwed, particularly the majority of people who’ve been living a lifestyle society couldn’t afford. The bubble is bursting, credit is maxed out and Corbyn and Cameron committed collective economic suicide by taking us out of the EU.

+1.

Sunak wasn’t talking about paying back Capital, but the ongoing paying of the Interest.

No difference. He lying either way.

Anyway back on topic, Liz Truss and we’re all screwed, particularly the majority of people who’ve been living a lifestyle society couldn’t afford. The bubble is bursting, credit is maxed out and Corbyn and Cameron committed collective economic suicide by taking us out of the EU.

But, basically, when it all settles down on STW – this ^^^.

But we do enjoy the benefits currently of the free market.

Well we all know there’s nothing free about it – just called a free-market as the odds are stacked in the favour of thew few who call it that.