So, who’s getting Eagle AXS then?

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 191 total)
  • So, who’s getting Eagle AXS then?
  • ta11pau1
    Member

    According to pinkbike the price difference between the axs and standard Eagle xx1 is $500, so that’s another £400 for the shifter & mech, for the carbon cage xx1, so maybe £300 extra for the xo1 version. Going by rrp on CRC the standard versions are £300 combined, so £600 rrp for the mech & shifter? After the normal discount sub £500 isn’t far off…

    rocco
    Member

    I’d have it if I had the money, cant stand wires. The other interesting point in that article is the mention of Force eTap. Can’t find any other details on it though

    Premier Icon sillyoldman
    Subscriber

    How long do the batteries last on Di2 and Etap? 20 hours seems a bit on the thin side for overnighters etc.

    Months for Di2

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    20 hours seems a bit on the thin side for overnighters etc.

    It does, however the batteries are 25g each, so you could easily carry a spare or two, and you can get 2 SRAM ones for the price of 1 Di2 one, based on the price of the road stuff.

    Less faff to change than Di2 internal ones too

    ta11pau1
    Member

    The reverb actuation looks loads better than the magura, no press and its open for a short while – press the button and it opens, release and it closes, pretty damn quick too by the looks/sounds of it.

    If they do a 170mm version I’d be tempted as a single dropper to share between 2 bikes, it’s probably cheaper than 2x fox transfer droppers…

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    I’ve just seen the new road etap groupset. If you choose the crank with built in power meter it will cost you 3600 British pounds…

    It gets worse thou it’s built into the chainring so when it’s worn you have to replace the power meter as well, but it’s all fine as there’s a discount scheme 50% when you need to do it 🙂

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    If they do a 170mm version I’d be tempted as a single dropper to share between 2 bikes

    Sir is in luck…

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    I’d have it if I had the money, cant stand wires. The other interesting point in that article is the mention of Force eTap. Can’t find any other details on it though

    I think this will be the more interesting option, the di2 xt stuff is nice and the parts come up reasonable but the price of the wires and battery are crazy.

    bluedynamo
    Member

    The GCN video confirmed that the 12 Speed red etap axs and the 11 Speed red etap are not compatible.

    dirtyrider
    Member

    Less faff to change than Di2 internal ones too

    di2 can be charged from a dynamo/usb stick – sure Mike Hall did this during the tour divide

    Premier Icon mboy
    Subscriber

    BUT eagle mechs are mahoooosive, I regularly smash mine into rocks and have been through 3 in the last year. It’s frustrating when it’s £70 a mech but £400+, no way!

    Looking at X01, UK RRP is £1900 for the groupset… The cassette, crank and chain are already available (albeit different colours) for the following rrp’s…

    Crank £480
    Cassette £350
    Chain £58

    That’s £888… SRAM have released prices today for spare batteries and chargers, at £50 and £40 respectively…

    Basically, what SRAM are saying is that the mech (without battery!) and shifter are going to be £922 (probably more I’d guess!), you can bet that means £700 for the rear mech alone and over £200 for the “control unit”…

    I’d have it if I had the money, cant stand wires.

    I will have it if and when the mech and shifter are available separately (don’t need another cassette, chain, or crank at all), and the demand isn’t consistently outstripping supply (keeping the prices high, meaning I’m less likely to get a special “staff” rate)…

    I did several months on a SRAM Red eTap groupset on the road when they first came out, it was fantastic! Precision shifts, stupidly easy to fit and setup (you better believe that for the Pro mechanics, the staggering price is worth it every time!) and it never went wrong. Loved the tactility of the groupset too.

    Since then, been running Ultegra R8050 Di2 on my current road bike, more of the same in many ways, though heavier and I slightly prefer SRAM’s ergonomics (R8050 is way better than R6870 or R6770 before it mind!), performance of it is superb. The biggest bugbear is the PITA that is wiring it all up on modern internally routed bikes! Hey ho… Back to SRAM Eagle AXS…

    I want it. I want it BADLY! But bloody hell it’s expensive… When X01 Eagle first came out, it was almost a no brainer for me, as it wasn’t any more expensive than the 11spd stuff it was replacing, I needed a new cassette and chain for my existing X01 11spd setup anyway, and I wangled a good deal from our SRAM rep on a groupset without a crank that I think anyone here would have bitten his arm off. I just can’t see that happening with AXS sadly… Have a budget in my head that I’ll allow myself for a mech/shifter/battery, can move the current X01 shifter and mech to my new hardtail etc. All I need is for the SRAM rep to come in budget, but I expect they won’t sadly…

    As for the £700 Reverb…? Screw that! Unless they’ve overhauled the inherent issues that make Reverbs unreliable anyway (which isn’t the way they are actuated), then having just switched over to Fox Transfers recently after breaking soooo many Reverbs, I won’t be going back any time soon!

    daern
    Member

    As for the £700 Reverb…? Screw that! Unless they’ve overhauled the inherent issues that make Reverbs unreliable anyway (which isn’t the way they are actuated), then having just switched over to Fox Transfers recently after breaking soooo many Reverbs, I won’t be going back any time soon!

    Funnily, I have a Fox Transfer after years of Reverbs and I can’t stand the thing. It’s constantly sticking and I have to be super careful when pinching up the seatpost clamp or the damn thing jams solid – something I never had with the Reverb. I’d swap back in an instant if I could.

    Not for £700 though, it must be said 🙂

    nice idea – but insane money – ive gone xtr 12 speed and altho its mechanical, its a million times more reliable, smoother, easier to setup and quieter than sram eagle

    as it stands I can see no point personally, but good tech from them to remove the need for any wires/batterys in the frame etc

    reverb to me is pointless, my fox transfer is about as reliable as a post can get, ride it in utterly awful conditions, it works, ride it in -10 degrees, it works….change the cable once a year…..theres nothing more needed to it…

    again its nice see forward thinking with tech, but if sram is anything go by the first years worth of products are tested in the real world by the people the people who pay full whack :rolleyes:

    Premier Icon timbog160
    Subscriber

    Actually on the hole thing I’ve just realised the top hole is shared with the brake hose anyway so is still needed. The lower hole is underneath the BB so I guess will just be another drain for moisture. So I’m probably in once some deals start to appear…

    ta11pau1
    Member

    It was always going to be expensive, it’s the bleeding edge of mtb tech after all.

    If prices come down to a semi-reasonable level I’d buy the mech and dropper combo.

    teamslug
    Member

    I’m going to wait til wireless brakes come out and go totally cable free.

    Premier Icon Super Scale 20
    Subscriber

    I am in once deals come in or if I have anything on current xx needs changing pending not heavier than my current setup.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    I’m going to wait til wireless brakes come out and go totally cable free

    A mech and shifter would mean I’d be cable free, as my brakes and dropper use hydraulic hoses 😉

    I’m i the only one that can’t seen any real benefit other than Its a bit easier to fit and set up than a regular cable actuated shifter / dropper? And a tiny tiny bit crisper shifting?

    I get the road groups, it removes the cables so their is a watt saving – there’s another thread discussion, the obsession of regular roadies removing 5seconds from a 1hr ride…..

    But this is just silly. Give me a centralised lightweight gearbox with trigger shifter – that has real benefits over this road developed 100yr old archaic external crappy expensive bit of branding…….

    As you can tell, I don’t like.

    kayla1
    Member

    But this is just silly. Give me a centralised lightweight gearbox with trigger shifter – that has real benefits over this road developed 100yr old archaic external crappy expensive bit of branding…….

    What happens when some spotty yoof hacks into your geary bits and it all goes a bit “I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that.”

    Yep, give me mechanical stuff any day of the year. I’m so far away from the target market though- the RRP for the groupset is more than it cost to build both of our bikes plus it’s SRAM, and SRAM can gtf.

    yours, still thinking 10sp and reliable tubeless is a revelation… 😆

    ta11pau1
    Member

    I’m going to wait til wireless brakes come out and go totally cable free.

    Yeah, wireless brakes is where I’d draw the line. Ignoring the safety implications of a loss of connection, even for a split second… hydraulic brakes are just perfect for brake feel and modulation, something a switch connected to nothing just can’t replicate.

    I’m i the only one that can’t seen any real benefit other than Its a bit easier to fit and set up than a regular cable actuated shifter / dropper? And a tiny tiny bit crisper shifting?

    I get the road groups, it removes the cables so their is a watt saving – there’s another thread discussion, the obsession of regular roadies removing 5seconds from a 1hr ride…..

    But this is just silly. Give me a centralised lightweight gearbox with trigger shifter – that has real benefits over this road developed 100yr old archaic external crappy expensive bit of branding…….

    According to the brief first rides, it shifts *really* well and under full load too.

    I’d love to see a better gearbox but they’ve got a long way to come. They need to be lighter and have better shifting options, electronic would be perfect but the cost would be ridiculous!!! Then of course the frames have to be designed for a gearbox so you can’t just upgrade any bike.

    Premier Icon cokie
    Subscriber

    I’m going to wait til wireless brakes come out and go totally cable free.

    You can do it now! Fit the AXS Reverb & drivetrain and then all you need is a coaster brake. Cable-less utopia!

    18Bikes had a bike in with the kit fitted. They manhandled it a little and it looks pretty clever!

    I know SRAM need to make a buck but if they priced this lower they’d clean up the market IMO.

    The roadie world has proven that lecky gears are the way to go, above budget stuff.

    And Shimano are stuck in a wired world, which just isn’t MTB-friendly (it’s not very road friendly either, frankly).

    AXS mech and shifter for £500 and they’d be on half the bikes within a year. IMO.

    wukfit
    Member

    Without sounding too dumb, how do you charge the batteries?
    Is it disconnect battery from shifter/mech then plug into cradle on workbench, or plug a wire directly into them while in situ?
    Would it be possible for wireless charging in the future, just lean the bike up against the charging pad on the wall of the garage and all 4 batteries are on charge?

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    Disconnect the one on the mech/reverb, put in a cradle.

    Shifter is a watch battery, change that every couple of years.

    According to the brief first rides, it shifts *really* well and under full load too.

    I’d love to see a better gearbox but they’ve got a long way to come. They need to be lighter and have better shifting options, electronic would be perfect but the cost would be ridiculous!!! Then of course the frames have to be designed for a gearbox so you can’t just upgrade any bike.

    I think my point is that I wish that one of the big two would develop a product that is actually designed for mountain bikes rather that road. There are so many advantages of gearboxes over conventional gears, it’s why it’s been talked about for someone years. Problem is you need a massive Rd budget to develop it from the ground up into something that is On par with the existing mech and cassette. Pinion are close but are 300g and a reliable trigger shifter away. Effigear are a little closer but have much larger efficency losses reportedly.

    These ‘improvements’ that are being made with each release of the top line mechs are getting smaller and smaller.
    OK it’s wireless electronic, I can see that there are (arguable) advantages on the road side like I said – but literally 0 on the mtb side other than Its “easy(ier)” for sram to transplant an existing product from one discipline to another than actually design and development a groundbreaking product specifically for mtb. The Eagle groups when originally released did this as 1x wasn’t a thing really at the time, we’re now 7? Years on with no real change.

    Having said all that, I’m sure that they will sell a fair few to the ‘just because’ bregade.

    Premier Icon mattbee
    Subscriber

    Electronic shifting just works. Whatever funk or crud is on the drivetrain. It shifts as well as when first fitted.
    There’s no change in shift effort through the gears, you can shift multiple gears with one press of a button and with front mech self trimming on the road it’s absolutely quiet too.
    Take away the one faff of Shimano’s solition; routing the wires (although you only do it once) and you can have the same great shifting with no faff installing.
    No need to worry about cable/wire routing or outer cables wearing through your frame either.

    Premier Icon mboy
    Subscriber

    Funnily, I have a Fox Transfer after years of Reverbs and I can’t stand the thing. It’s constantly sticking and I have to be super careful when pinching up the seatpost clamp or the damn thing jams solid – something I never had with the Reverb. I’d swap back in an instant if I could.

    Not what I want to hear!

    But this is just silly. Give me a centralised lightweight gearbox with trigger shifter – that has real benefits over this road developed 100yr old archaic external crappy expensive bit of branding…….

    Ignoring the obvious issues with gearboxes being proprietary and the need for the entire bike to be designed around them, rather than being able to upgrade an existing bike, the other implications of weight and efficiency are still 2 huge elephants in the room. There is no getting away from it, a good derailleur setup is still by far and away the lightest and most efficient way of transferring power from the cranks to the rear wheel on a bicycle, typical derailleur setups being some 98% efficient or more, where gearboxes are more like 94-95% efficient and typically increase system weight (albeit low down and centralised) too… Most people buy a new bike, keep it for 2 or 3 years, then move onto the next one, and light weight and efficiency are higher on the purchase criteria than “will it last for 15 years with just a regular oil change”…

    I know SRAM need to make a buck but if they priced this lower they’d clean up the market IMO.

    The roadie world has proven that lecky gears are the way to go, above budget stuff.

    And Shimano are stuck in a wired world, which just isn’t MTB-friendly (it’s not very road friendly either, frankly).

    AXS mech and shifter for £500 and they’d be on half the bikes within a year. IMO.

    Agree 100% with these sentiments… I was hugely sceptical of electronic groupsets on road bikes, took me years to get over the cynicism, and now I have… I wouldn’t go back! They’re just better… Period!

    Di2 is as you say, hugely unfriendly for MTB applications. It’s still less than ideal on a road bike, but at least road frames don’t have a number of moving parts. Wireless just makes sense. I’ve fitted maybe 5 SRAM Red eTap groupsets to bikes now, it’s such a quick and simple process it’s scarcely believable when compared to internal routing of cables (or wires) on a road bike that from a mechanic’s point of view alone, it’s well worth some additional cost.

    What happens when some spotty yoof hacks into your geary bits and it all goes a bit “I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that.”

    SRAM were testing their wireless protocol on the pro elite riders for at least 5 years before they released it to the masses… Not one instance of anybody being able to hack it! This was perhaps a viable concern in 2014, but it has proven itself totally reliable for years now. I get that it’s not for everybody, I get that the cost is eye watering to all but the richest of people, but wireless technology has been rock steady for years now so it’s not really a relevant concern any more…

    Running out of battery power on the trail though… FAR more likely!

    quango2k
    Member

    100% getting the X01 set. Had Di2 for years now since the first revision (now on the new Ultegra Di2) on my road bikes and I swear by it. Sure, mechanical is OK and works..but those that have ridden with electronic shifting will know, there is no comparison.

    zinaru
    Member

    i actually surprised myself that i quite like it.

    but its designed for racers or folk that get given their bikes and bits. i get its an exercise in seeing how technology can help improve any given problem and this is elegantly done. the price of actually smashing that rear mech is eye-watering even with that clutch thing increase the ‘undamaged window’…

    to me, mountain biking for mere mortals is about some form of durability in incredibly trying conditions (ie scottish winters). i want stuff that works and for me – and it already exists. so the industry isnt targeting me.

    i get these things will trickle down eventually but to me this opens up a whole host of other things. when does it get daft? electronic brakes? voice activated electronic pedals?

    as a biker thats been riding since 1986, ive accepted some total junk in the past but the overall standard of bikes, components and clothes are amazing now. im not convinced there are many huge technical issues left to solve. its all marginal gains these days.

    the chain is very smart though!

    Ignoring the obvious issues with gearboxes being proprietary and the need for the entire bike to be designed around them, rather than being able to upgrade an existing bike, the other implications of weight and efficiency are still 2 huge elephants in the room.

    Bike Manufactures have seemed to have rallied around making frames with fittings for proprietary ebike motors, pretty quick. If shimano/sram had a gear box they’d do the same.
    Weight and efficiency aren’t all that big an issue in the general mtb world. Regular Bikes have gained at least 10-20% in weight over the last few years, a 34lb trail bike isn’t the Dh only beast tit once was. We’ll at least its are becoming less of an issue.
    It may not work for xc race whippets, but I bet the general trail market is much larger.

    whitestone
    Member

    When I built up my last bike I did seriously consider going with the electronic version (Shimano) but for me I found that the advantages were outweighed by the disadvantage, only one of which was cost. I think at the time the price was nearly 3x that of the mechanical version.

    I’ve tried Di2 on a hire road bike for a few days and while it was “nice” it wasn’t a vast improvement over the mechanical version in that I didn’t immediately think “I’ve gotta have this on my next bike”. My mate on the other hand loves his but then he’s mechanically incompetent – “Andy, you hold the screwdriver at the other end.”. I’ve had to adjust my XT rear indexing maybe three times in the year since I set it up on the above bike, once when on the bike stand having a general service and the other two being just a quick turn or two of the barrel adjuster. The bike’s been through hell and high water (literally) so while there is some maintenance work it’s hardly onerous, much less than bleeding one brake for example.

    If you are a serial mech wrecker then you’d be looking at serious financial outlay for ongoing use of something like the AXS but I’ve wrecked precisely zero rear mechs (where’s the touch wood emoji?). If you did smash the mech, how easy is it to get a replacement? Might be awkward at the moment and it will get easier but it might not be the walk in to the trail centre bike shop and pick up the cheapest compatible mech that you can do with a mechanical one.

    I believe Mike Hall used Di2 on his bikes to ensure he could still change gear after a couple of weeks’ riding of 20hrs per day. Looking at photos of his bike he also had extra shifters on the aero extensions, not easy to do with a mechanical system.

    Premier Icon solarider
    Subscriber

    Been using Campagnolo EPS and SRAM Etap on the road since both systems came out. Both are brilliant and electronic shifting is a marked improvement on many levels. On this basis, I am in.

    The cost of entry does seem quite high for AXS, particularly since at least for the moment we are being forced to buy a whole groupset. I suspect that this is SRAM’s way of coping with initial supply limitations – by artificially stifling demand. I suspect at this end of the market most of their prospective customers are already using 12 speed mechanical and therefore don’t have a need for a chainset, chain or cassette.

    This is an unprecedented launch – all of their top tier road and off-road groupsets launching on the same day (imagine XTR and Dura Ace launching on the same day?!). The pressure that this must have put their factories under means that supply is weak, demand is high, and therefore prices are high. It’s a high end piece of innovation – the same applies to high end innovation in any sector.

    Once their production ramps up and they can satisfy demand they will release the components separately. To do so now would leave them open to the same criticism as Shimano over releasing XTR 12 before they can actually produce the product.

    Once the mechs and shifters are available separately, I will definitely commit. To this end (just as I did with my road bike) I have just changed the specification of a frame currently going through production to remove all gear cable stops and dropper routing. I already have an existing 12 speed set up and a new EE Wings chainset ready for the build so I will just have to be patient.

    To me, the only barrier to widespread adoption (and it is a biggie) is the price. As a few people have said £500 for mech an shifter would open it up, and maybe a lower spec or production scale might get us there. In the meantime, they can probably sell everything that they can produce, so cynically they will do just that. It’s a simple commercial supply and demand decision.

    But to answer the question, I can see enough of a benefit to justify the outlay once they don’t force me to buy additional components that I don’t need.

    Gotama
    Member

    changed the specification of a frame currently going through production

    Oooh, what are you getting? Your builds are always pretty special.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    The cost of entry does seem quite high for AXS, particularly since at least for the moment we are being forced to buy a whole groupset.

    Pinkbike article says 4 weeks before the bits are available separately. I can wait. TBH I’ll be buying a cassette as well, but I’ve no need for a crank and chain.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    There was no chance of them releasing this at a lower price point… they wouldn’t have been able to meet demand. More affordable options will come later for us… chill. And at least you’re not being forced into buying new wheels to use it…

    scuttler
    Member

    Mech. Is that that fragile dangly and irreparable thing that is proven to proportionally get damaged/fail the more expensive it is? I’ll keep my SLX mate.

    Like most of the “exciting new tech” this stuff is just so far out my price bracket it’s not even worth considering the question

    plus one
    Member

    Only 12 speed !! I’ll hang off for 13 speed

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