Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 170 total)
  • So what’s going to happen to all the Transporters in 9 years time?
  • Premier Icon trail_rat
    Free Member

    You don’t make any sense (if city centres are so undesirable, why are they more expensive places to live than the suburbs

    YMMV but where I live outside of the executive suite developments that are now starting to pop up. Most of the city center housing is largely rental properties and student flats.

    People who are trapped in the rental cycle – keeping the yields high by keeping the prices high which in turn keeps the property prices high in the city …

    They don’t have the luxury to just pop out and buy a nice cheap* house in the middle of no where

    *Not cheap

    Premier Icon alpin
    Free Member

    You don’t make any sense (if city centres are so undesirable, why are they more expensive places to live than the suburbs or middle of nowehere?),

    Premier Icon espressoal
    Free Member

    The solutions for charging are all there, remember the guy that designed a sleeping policeman that compressed and turned a thing that generated electricity, every thud from every car coming out a car park etc, he got some stick for that crazy idea before it’s time.

    You also have the potential for ‘charging roads’..I might have invented the name, basically an underground/road charger that charges you up as you go, same thing could be built into carparks and…charge while you park, supermarkets would probably do it free just to monopolise the footfall.

    In the mean time the big switch over is like any big technology switch over, once the decision is made in the head you just get on with it and make do, after a couple of days it was the best decision you ever made…mainly cos you made it, electric cars, 29” wheels, no one say ‘oh god I want to go back”.

    Premier Icon espressoal
    Free Member

    Alpin, do those flats have a car park? it’s easy enough to install community charge points, in some ways a community scheme is cheaper and easier.

    Premier Icon squirrelking
    Free Member

    @espressoal those flats could be Cowcaddens, Sighthill, Cumbernauld or down by the river in Ayr. How long do you think a community charge point would last before it got vandalised? How many folk have the income to even justify one?

    Neither of these are reasons in themselves to not do it but it’s a realistic question to ask.

    Someone said above that if we expect to carry on as normal it’ll never work. I agree but for very different reasons, not because I’m a doom monger. Society is going to have to do some serious shuffling to get rid of it’s ridiculous reliance on personal transport. Out of town retail needs to go or at least be easily accessible. Commuting needs to be seriously looked at and rates adjusted to penalise companies without a plan for sustainable working (working from home, sustainable transport etc.). Likewise public transport needs a serious overhaul, I’d love to get an evening train to FW and do a session up Nevis Range the next day, realistically that’s not going to happen. It’s getting closer thanks to the new bike carriages being rolled out but it has a long way to go yet (a bus from town would be nice). The more we can eliminate the need for cars the less of an issue they actually are. That seems to be the bit people conveniently ignore.

    Premier Icon politecameraaction
    Free Member

    People who are trapped in the rental cycle – keeping the yields high by keeping the prices high which in turn keeps the property prices high in the city …

    Have you seen the yields on rental properties recently?

    Where do you live?

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    remember the guy that designed a sleeping policeman that compressed and turned a thing that generated electricity, every thud from every car coming out a car park etc

    Do a Google search for “perpetual motion”. What that is fundamentally doing is making a car drive up a ramp then using the energy of the car descending to drive a generator. Problem is, it takes more energy to drive up the ramp than you can generate from the descent.

    an underground/road charger that charges you up as you go

    A car needs sustained power of 10 to 20 kW to not be frustratingly slow. That’s about 1000 times more powerful than a smartphone charger. Wireless charging needs the devices to be very close, ideally in contact, and properly aligned. A car bouncing around on suspension swerving between lanes is going to be tricky. On top of that, you need to build wireless chargers that run for thousands of miles. That will be massively expensive. Much more expensive than just putting charging points alongside every parking space.

    supermarkets would probably do it free just to monopolise the footfall.

    A plug-in charging station, probably. A carpark sized wireless charging station, no way.

    Premier Icon espressoal
    Free Member

    those flats could be Cowcaddens, Sighthill, Cumbernauld or down by the river in Ayr. How long do you think a community charge point would last before it got vandalised? How many folk have the income to even justify one?

    Neither of these are reasons in themselves to not do it but it’s a realistic question to ask.

    Someone said above that if we expect to carry on as normal it’ll never work. I agree but for very different reasons, not because I’m a doom monger. Society is going to have to do some serious shuffling to get rid of it’s ridiculous reliance on personal transport. Out of town retail needs to go or at least be easily accessible. Commuting needs to be seriously looked at and rates adjusted to penalise companies without a plan for sustainable working (working from home, sustainable transport etc.). Likewise public transport needs a serious overhaul, I’d love to get an evening train to FW and do a session up Nevis Range the next day, realistically that’s not going to happen. It’s getting closer thanks to the new bike carriages being rolled out but it has a long way to go yet (a bus from town would be nice). The more we can eliminate the need for cars the less of an issue they actually are. That seems to be the bit people conveniently ignore.

    Good practical arguments, these get us straight into working out solutions, your not doom mongering you are just identifying real problems that need solved.

    I just spent two days working with electricians, one job was putting in a heavy supply cable from the mains to the other end of a building getting developed, took about an hour, at the end goes a terminal box that supplies a house but you could stick a car charger or whatever on that, it’s not a big job.
    Security and sharing is just another thing that needs a solution, cctv? a big jaggy fence round it? if it is the case that some places are too rough to put what is essentially an outdoor socket then it’s more of a social issue than a car charging one, they presumably have bins at a central point and vehicles that need protecting, my take is that in time an out door charging point will eventually be as common as a wheely bin, and just as inspiring to neds.

    The other solution is put them in the wheely bins, gaffer tape the lid and beat the side with a stick for a bit.

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Full Member

    Problem is, it takes more energy to drive up the ramp than you can generate from the descent.

    you’re missing the point! If there’s a ramp anyway (as a traffic calming measure, say) then it’s free energy (at least, free for whoever’s collecting it 😃) that could be used to power e.g. car park ticket machines or other roadside infrastructure

    Premier Icon espressoal
    Free Member

    Do a Google search for “perpetual motion”. What that is fundamentally doing is making a car drive up a ramp then using the energy of the car descending to drive a generator. Problem is, it takes more energy to drive up the ramp than you can generate from the descent.

    They have to drive over it anyway, its a sleeping policeman to slow traffic, serves that purpose and generates electricity doing it, they are in use, same sort of technology that generates power on braking, you have to break anyway, why not use that friction to generate power.

    Gyms, a load of people running on treadmills and cycling resistance machines, effectively wasting energy, with the lights on, if you hooked up all the exercise machines it would be like a mini human powered power station, I jest but the concept is there, to make it more ironic they drive their electric car to the place to deliberately waste energy, quite strange when you think about it, and they pay for that, why not just run there, turn round and run home? …sort of thinking.

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Full Member

    Gyms, a load of people running on treadmills and cycling resistance machines, effectively wasting energy, with the lights on, if you hooked up all the exercise machines it would be like a mini human powered power station

    it’s a good idea, and is actually already a thing (albeit this example is probably more of a small-scale, proof of concept than anything else): https://www.womenshealthmag.com/uk/fitness/workouts/a708491/spin-class-generates-electricity/

    Premier Icon espressoal
    Free Member

    Wireless charging needs the devices to be very close, ideally in contact, and properly aligned.

    From the underside of a car to the road is 10”? aligned by driving in lane? you pay a toll and drive 20 miles on charge? if any of this is possible it’s just a private toll service, the amount of charge you get is just relative to the toll cost, maybe not soon, just one more future solution.

    All of this is a bogey if manufacturers fins a way of easily removing batteries, if/when that is possible you can have one on charge at work or at home, or petrol station, and just switch them over, game changed, long way off though without some sort of trolley.

    Premier Icon espressoal
    Free Member

    it’s a good idea, and is actually already a thing (albeit this example is probably more of a small-scale, proof of concept than anything else): https://www.womenshealthmag.com/uk/fitness/workouts/a708491/spin-class-generates-electricity/

    £25 to use your energy to ‘save the planet’, ah the irony, but nice to see it is possible, never quite got my head around indoor static cycling, I think I might cycle down to my local gym and cycle round and round it just for the irony buzz.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Full Member

    If you’re going to make that comparison, you need to factor in the efficiency of generating and transporting the electricity to your EV, which if Gas is involved, (and it still is a lot) runs at about 55%.

    Presumably that applies to both though (assuming the H2 generation is via electrolysis). But equally could be wind, solar etc. It’s just saying that For every kWh of electricity you generate either 85% efficient, or 0.65*0.6=39% actually makes it to the motor.

    Now all I need is a EV that will do 500 plus miles on one charge, tow 3.5 tonnes, go off road and be intrinsically safe to go onto high risk COMAH sites and I’ll be buying an entire fleet for our business.

    Considering ICE car’s aren’t allowed past the car parks at most petrochemical sites that seems unlikely. Although an ATEX 114 approved EV would seem more likely, but you’d need to work round the issue of static discharges with some sort of special conductive tires (or a more reliable version of those dangly strips)?

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Full Member

    Gyms, a load of people running on treadmills and cycling resistance machines, effectively wasting energy, with the lights on, if you hooked up all the exercise machines it would be like a mini human powered power station, I jest but the concept is there, to make it more ironic they drive their electric car to the place to deliberately waste energy, quite strange when you think about it, and they pay for that, why not just run there, turn round and run home? …sort of thinking.

    Given the FTP of most ‘cyclists’ is <200W, and the average person you see twiddling the pedals or walking on a treadmill is probably not even breaking three figures. You’d need a whole gym to boil a kettle.

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    From the underside of a car to the road is 10”? aligned by driving in lane?

    Wireless charging on the move is massively more difficult and expensive than dropping a phone on a charging pad. A stationary one in a car park or kerbside would be much easier to do, but still much more expensive than plugging into a socket. Just because something is possible doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

    Premier Icon pigyn
    Free Member

    Battery swap stations already exist, in China and Norway if you own a Nio

    https://www.nio.com/nio-power

    Premier Icon TheBrick
    Free Member

    You also have the potential for ‘charging roads’..

    Must be trolling. I am sorry but this on the same level as solar roadways.

    Premier Icon finishthat
    Full Member

    There are solutions to overnight charging, for example what about leaving your semi autonomous EV in a queue and they all move forward or backwards to the chargers overnight all networking to provide charged cars to the folks who need them earliest in the morning.
    Employment for EV guardians overnight etc.

    Premier Icon espressoal
    Free Member

    Must be trolling. I am sorry but this on the same level as solar roadways.

    Just posing the possibilities for the future, which given that people were telling me electric cars would never catch on just a couple of years ago would appear to be closer than we usually think.

    I don’t particularly like electric, for me compared to diesel it’s weak, doesn’t pull a trailer or cut a tree down, but I think we need to alter our expectations in the future, I don’t think technology alone is not going to give us what we have become used to, and I don’t think just continuing to expect low cost full power 24/7 is going to be a cost effective option.

    Premier Icon trail_rat
    Free Member

    doesn’t pull a trailer or cut a tree down,

    How not like. ?

    Premier Icon espressoal
    Free Member

    Just because something is possible doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

    Yet.

    I’m old, they said unleaded petrol would take years to phase in.

    Premier Icon espressoal
    Free Member

    How not like. ?

    Power mainly, the weight of towing, the distance you need to tow, and there are no electric chainsaws powerful enough to power through a tree, even if they had sockets in the woods, perhaps one day soon.

    Premier Icon espressoal
    Free Member

    There are solutions to overnight charging, for example what about leaving your semi autonomous EV in a queue and they all move forward or backwards to the chargers overnight all networking to provide charged cars to the folks who need them earliest in the morning.
    Employment for EV guardians overnight etc.

    Nice idea if things went that way, drop your car off car wash style..get it hoovered at the same time by a real human that gets wages.

    Premier Icon trail_rat
    Free Member

    You may want to let sthil know about your findings.

    Things are moving fast. Even I’m beginning to move with them.

    Premier Icon espressoal
    Free Member

    You may want to let sthil know about your findings.

    Same story as electric cars, expensive and as yet just for light trimming work, a chainsaw that runs out of power half way through a tree would be a liability, I have an electric chainsaw for cutting at home, less noise, but it plugs in so there are no charging interruptions.

    Premier Icon squirrelking
    Free Member

    Even I’m beginning to move with them.

    Holy ****.

    Premier Icon smiffy
    Free Member

    In reality little is really ever “banned”.

    You can still buy coal, creosote, leaded petrol, lightbulbs, proper paint, leaded solder, fags.

    What actually happens is is it just gets a bit harder or more expensive to access the bad things if you need or want them.

    And this actually achieves the original aim – to achieve the hoped for change to environmental impact you don’t need to remove all of the the harmful things just nearly all of them.

    Ten years is a long time and I predict a non-event not carmageddon on “whatevernamethemediacomeupwith”- Day.

    The European way would be to say “you can still have an IC car, you just have to pay more tax, say it’s for one of the derogated reasons and have an F-great Rainbow sticker on the door showing that it’s B not A+++ for emissions. Up to you”.

    Premier Icon FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Late to this thread, so apologies if already covered.

    This video shows as how weight of vehicle goes up, EV becomes impractical due to weight.

    Hydrogen looks a real possibility, and it’s not just JCB pushing this either. Toyota one of the first adopters of EV are now looking at hydrogen

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Full Member

    Hydrogen looks a real possibility, and it’s not just JCB pushing this either. Toyota one of the first adopters of EV are now looking at hydrogen

    I repeat the same thing I always say at this point. HAVE YOU SEEN THE COST OF HYDROGEN!

    $75 for a tank, which will do about 250miles. And that’s tax free. It’s causing problems in California as the cars were sold with fuel cards that effectively made them free to fuel up for a number of years which is now coming to an end and surprise surprise, no one wants a car in America that costs almost 4x more than normal to run when an electric car costs about a half.

    https://www.autoweek.com/drives/a33651995/bye-bye-long-term-mirai/

    And it’s not a question of economies of scale, that’s just what it costs. There’s a huge excess of the stuff being produced at refineries and burnt as fuel gas because there isn’t another use for it. But the cost of transporting, storing and transferring it is monumental.

    Power mainly, the weight of towing, the distance you need to tow, and there are no electric chainsaws powerful enough to power through a tree, even if they had sockets in the woods, perhaps one day soon.

    Model 3, ID4, Enyaq all tow upto 1000kg, supposedly going upto 1200kg with an update. Polestar will tow 1500kg. So all of them will tow the maximum you can on a UK car license with a hefty margin to spare. E-tron will tow 1800kg!

    They also have the benefit of 100kg (ish) nose weights as the batteries balance the car, so you can even put a motorbike on the towbar, or 4 e-bikes.

    Premier Icon TheBrick
    Free Member

    Just posing the possibilities for the future, which given that people were telling me electric cars would never catch on just a couple of years ago would appear to be closer than we usually think.

    I think the answer you’re looking for is “Yes I am trolling”.

    Premier Icon trail_rat
    Free Member

    a chainsaw that runs out of power half way through a tree would be a liability,

    Bit like when they run out of fuel.

    Yeah their biggest saw won’t take out a large tree but the 46minute run time.on the 240 and is targeted for cutting down small to medium trees – the sort of trees amateurs and house holders will be felling….if they should even be doing that tbh.

    Just like an electric car will cover most folks towing….I tow over 2tons maybe 5 times a year and up to 3 maybe once a year More often than not it’s <1t

    Out side of that you’ll likely have commercial exemptions via taxation or permits.

    Tbh I’d quite like to see the 121terrawatts of electricity being wasted on *Ponzi*coin being stopped long before the fueling restrictions comes in.

    Premier Icon squirrelking
    Free Member

    And it’s not a question of economies of scale, that’s just what it costs. There’s a huge excess of the stuff being produced at refineries and burnt as fuel gas because there isn’t another use for it. But the cost of transporting, storing and transferring it is monumental.

    Umm, that sounds exactly like a question of economy of scale. If the market is so small of course its going to cost more to store and transport. You’re not answering the practical question though in that electric isn’t a solution for heavy vehicles, especially ones in use 24/7. Hydrogen is.

    It’s also worth pointing out that whilst hydrogen does have an adverse impact on materials there are power stations with generators that were built 50 years ago and still fine. You should see the state of our hydrogen farm, we’re right next to the sea and you know it. Pipework looks like f-all but it’s sound, as are the bottle banks. It’s not as big an issue as people will have you believe.

    Premier Icon trail_rat
    Free Member

    The busses in our area run on hydrogen.

    In 2016 these busses were >1mill to buy

    In 2019 -350k Vs diesel unit of 230k .

    https://news.aberdeencity.gov.uk/the-worlds-first-hydrogen-powered-double-decker-bus-arrives-in-aberdeen/

    Premier Icon 5lab
    Free Member

    Toyota one of the first adopters of EV

    eh? toyota have always been pushing back against full EVs. I can’t think of a single one they make – they have hybrids and hydrogen, but their first full EV is launching in a couple of years.

    Premier Icon espressoal
    Free Member

    I could see hydrogen working for commercial vehicles in the future, in the main they have the storage and refueling facilities, on site or depot, electric for the commuter and short distance car..which is most of them.

    Premier Icon tonyg2003
    Full Member

    @5lab Toyota Bz vehicles out now. BEV’s. Yes even Toyota are making BEV now.

    Premier Icon trail_rat
    Free Member

    Dya think the war rig ran on hydrogen 😉

    We would go a long way to sorting this by testing for emissions correctly and fully at mot instead of the joke of testing we do now.

    Premier Icon 5lab
    Free Member

    @tonyg2003 source? All I can see is that they have announced a concept and the car is a couple of years away.

    Premier Icon tonyg2003
    Full Member

    I might have jumped the gun! Available 2022 – autoexpress and autocar

Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 170 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.