So today, I tried Flats for the first time … 😬

I ride either depending on the ride. Yes you need to re-learn jumping, the bike should push up into you in the air whereas SPD’s sort of let you float together with the bike following you regardless.

Personally I find that SPD’s don’t suit me on modern trail bikes. Somewhere in the long reach, short stem, slack HA I lose all the weight on the front wheel and it just feels sketchy.  For everything from XC upwards though I clip in.  I think partially though my riding style’s diverged as well though.  I tend to push the bike right down and lean forwards into corners, which means my foot’s naturally coming of the inside pedal which SPD’s limit. Best way I could visualize it is the grip[s and pedals are 4 corners of a square, and in a corner I want to push my COG all the way to the front/outside, which means the inside back foot comes up.  Also handy because it forces that foot forwards, so it’s dabbing level with the front wheel, not tripoding like a lost roadie in a CX race.

Clips for the trails

Flats for the Parks

But why? What is the advantage?

it’s just personal preference, there’s no right or wrong answer to this one.

the technique I was taught was to be leaving the top of the takeoff ramp with straight arms – pushing the bike up (like a manual) rather than trying to pull the bike up with your arms.

That sounds like an awfully risky way of jumping to me. Straight arms means your weight will be back, and I cannot help thinking that is the last place you want your weight to be while getting airborne.

When I was taught to jump it was weight central on the takeoff ramp and compress down a bit to preload – then pop upwards as you leave the lip applying very gentle backwards pressure on the bars. No pulling up with the arms, the energy of the jump coming from my legs.

“Point of order. What you used to ride were toe clips. With or without straps. The road and track version had a cleat on the bottom of the shoe too with a groove across it that engaged with a ridge on the pedal. An SPD shoe and pedal is actually a ‘clipless’ system as it didn’t require a toe clips. Even though we often talk about being clipped in. I know, messes with your head a bit.”

I did actually know this but I just think it’s so silly that in 2024 we’re still calling pedals you clip into “clipless”! I certainly haven’t seen anyone riding clips and strap on an MTB this century and the original Look “clipless” pedals were invented 40 years ago, and SPDs in 1990. So I’m starting a movement to call clipless pedals “clips”.

Anyway, I really like riding flats, I’ve been on them off-road since I returned to MTBing in 2009. I imagine it takes quite a long time to get used to not being clipped in, (cliplessed in?!!). I remember when I started riding again in 2009 everyone else was on clips of some sort and also not using dropper posts, but I stuck with flats and got a dropper pretty soon (Gravity Dropper, 100mm of coil spring action!).

Clips seem to have the edge in competition (apart from freeride/slopestyle) but most people I ride with nowadays are on flats, with some riding clips for more XC stuff. I don’t know anyone who switches to clips for DH stuff (uplift days), even though almost all the pros DHers are on them but I don’t know anyone who races DH.

Greno steel city yesterday morning for the jumps  – flats

Wharny yesterday afternoon for the jank – clips

Persevere….

One advantage of clips I’ve not heard yet is the ability to hop the back end of the bike sideways without lifting the front

With flats, to do that you’ve either got to stoppie or do a proper hop. Which may not be possible, and/or it is slower

One advantage of clips I’ve not heard yet is the ability to hop the back end of the bike sideways without lifting the front

No, you can do that with flats?

you can do it without lifting the front wheel but it does require some additional movement/weight shift – if you are doing something technical enough to warrant a rear wheel hop, this may not be easy to do.

with clips you can just bend at the knees for a little hop/rear wheel line correction.

I’m a big flats fan but I do see this as a clip advantage. Of course anything needing this sort of move, is the sort of ride I’d hate to be clipped in for…

I moved to flats about 18months ago after 20 years on spds

its taken me a while but Im very happy now, even for longer xc rides, when I thought Id be back on spds, back wheel lifts, jumping and bunny hopping now as good as I was on spds, just takes practice

Big win for me has been comfort on long rides and confidence on very steep techy stuff

Ive been riding a hardtail a lot more recently and thats taken a bit of getting used, to stop getting my foot bounced off my foot through rough  stuff, requires a bit more heels down technique

For me if I know I’m doing a technical rocky steep uphill, then it’s flats…..

After one incredibly painful episode of falling backwards on a steep rocky climb while unable to unclip in time…..that was a painful lesson!

hardtailonly
Full Member

Maybe I shouldn’t be trying to progress with my jumping at the same time as trying flats?

So the question is, what are your goals? Do you actually want to progress and develop good skills? Or do you want to get down the trail by whatever means? The difference is basically that you can use SPDs to jump with poor technique and still get the job done, while if you do the same with flats you just crash.

Where that becomes more important is if you want to progress further- eventually if you want to jump further, or better, or use techniques like prejumping or doing direciton changes etc, you need to get good, you can’t just use the hardware to do the job. That has tons of transferrable benefits into other areas too. And at that point, a lot of people find themselves pretty stuck because they’re not just learning new stuff, they’re needing to unlearn old stuff, the tricks that got them so far can hold them back and just make it really hard to progress.

franksinatra
Full Member

<quoting someone else> You need to stick with it for a few months

But why? What is the advantage? I went back to clipless at the weekend and it just felt right.

Because you can’t make an educated decision unless you’re equally skilled and equally comfortable and equally familiar with both types, basically. it’s a bit like what I said just here ^^^ the question is whether that matters. Is stopping using what you’re already skilled and comfortable and familiar with worth it to experiment? Will you put in the effort, will you get over the big advantage that your current pedals have and ever actually make that fair decision? And in the end, will it even be different? That’s the clincher, you have to put in time and effort and suffer some worse rides, and in the end you might just learn “ok I actually do prefer this”.

But, I would add that if riding on flats feels really wrong, and riding on SPDs feels really right, that’s probably not just familiarity, you probably have some counterproductive stuff from the SPDs that makes it harder to ride on flats than it should be. Lots of people don’t move well with the bike, they fight the suspension and the tyres and they basically only stay together because they’re bolted together. And being bolted together is really useful, but it’s unhelpful to depend on it. You want to be cooperating with the bike and if you’re doing that, you don’t need to be bolted on. People who can switch easily between the two are generally better riders.

(myself, I like to know. And I absolutely do believe that both pedals tend to teach us things.

I’m very fussy about my saddle adjustment and I need to move my saddle forward and down a bit when switching to flats.
Somehow this small adjustment also helps with  keeping my feet properly over pedal axles.