I went on a skills course the other day and learnt quite a bit, one thing the guy suggested was riding flats for at least 20% of my rides would benefit me greatly. I’m inclined to believe him too.

Thing is, I know nothing about flats as I’ve been using SPDs for the last 5 years so I’m turning you you guys to educate me. I guess I’ve £150 to spend before the mrs gets suspicious.

I ride XC/trails mainly and I’m currently thinking Fire Eye Grill pedals and Five Ten Element shoes but this is based on nothing more scientific than ‘they look nice’.

Thanks.

Back in the day there were bear trap that would remove all the flesh from your shin and shimano DX. All modern flat pedals are basical derived from shimano DX so just pick ones that match your colour scheme and weight requiments. Removable pins are worth while IMO.

I’ve been on SPDs for over twenty years and have been trying flats since I got back from a fun but crashingly painful holiday in Spain. For pedals the Nukeproof Electron Evos appear brilliant for the money. Shoe wise I have some Teva Links and Giro Jackets because I was able to find them at bargain prices in my size and they both appear to be very good. I’ve had no problems with sticking to the pedals, if anything I find it tricky to reposition my foot if I want to.

£150 will get you set up nicely. Five Tens are good, Shimano AM41s are good too, better in crap weather and a smidge less grippy, not necessarily a bad thing that.

Pedal-wise, if you have smaller feet look for something with central pins, I wear size 8s and found that I slipped about on pedals where the pins are just round the edge.

Most people coming from clips need to drop their saddle a little, the really high saddle that you can run when bolted to the bike isn’t desirable on flats. Also, move your feet forward a little so the pedal axle is further back than it would be on SPDs, you’re more stable that way. It might feel less efficient but it really doesn’t make much difference once you adjust to it.

I rode clipped in for 20-odd years but switched to flats a few years back, and now I only break out the SPDs for really long slogs where that little bit of extra efficiency makes a difference, or on the singlespeed where I need every last bit of leverage to get up stuff.

default pedal is the HT Industries which is variously badged as Superstar Nano, Kona Wah Wah and carboncycles also sell them. Cost around 30ish quid depending on source. If you buy from Superstar a crow scratches a baby’s face and a fairy drowns in a kitten’s tears. Shimano Saint has a lot of fans but also a lot of haterz (see recent threads on here), not quite as grippy as the HT due to pins, and some people have had bearing issues.

Shoes: whichever 5.10 you like the look of, Teva Links if you can find any in stock (stopped making them), Sombrio Shazam (same), Shimano AM41 or it’s imminent replacement all highly rated. 5.10s are stiffer-soled than the Shimanos, which some people find too soft, I really like my AM41s though and like being able to feel the pedal.

I seem to have stockpiled bargain/sale shoes and have brand new 5.10 Barons and Teva Link Mids sat in a cupboard, and some £36 AM41s to collect from Halfords…

Should be able to get shoes and pedals for closer to £100 if you shop around.

If you’d like your feet to remain attached to the pedals on rocky descents then Five Ten Impact can be had for a reasonable price and they work unlike Teva Links.

Superstar Nano x pedals – think someone on here is selling some barely used. No connection to seller.

Should be able to get both for not too much more than £100, job done.

Most people coming from clips need to drop their saddle a little, the really high saddle that you can run when bolted to the bike isn’t desirable on flats.

Simpler than that, clipless pedals are thicker anyway and then you have a cleat between the pedal and your foot. Once these things are removed on thin flat pedals you’ll need your saddle lower just to compensate for the reduction in foot to pedal axle distance.

Flats are pretty much all the same at the sub £50 mark, all based around the Kona Wah Wah, Superstar Nano design….more important are the shoes you’ll be wearing.

Spend the money and go for something with the proprietary ‘stealth’ rubber sole, 5:10 used to have sole use of this nice grippy/soft compound but I saw some Adidas shoes with ‘stealth’ soles recently so whether 5:10 now licence it or Adidas have bought them out I don’t know?

…..anyway, get the sticky rubber shoes first and most flats will be fine from there.

Some people prefer longer or shorter pins and eBay is full of sellers offering replacement pins in varying lengths for most well known brands.
I’m using Nukeproof Electrons (the plastic ones) with longer pins I got from eBay fitted around the outside edge of the pedal together with 5:10 shoes I got for £50 in a CRC sale, I’m chuffed to bits with how they work together.

Worth mentioning that the ‘stealth’ rubber also comes in a ‘marathon’ compound which is harder wearing and typically used by brakeless BMXers and skaters, it has less grip so avoid for MTB use, it should say in the sole which rubber it is.

Adidas Terrex look good and the new ones are using ‘stealth’ rubber soles and often come up cheaper than 5:10

Cant go wrong with the new design dmr v12’s, thinner & lighter than the clubby old ones & cheap also. Magnesium is too soft I recon, I have damaged threads on mine due to grounding, so go alloy. With a set of terror pins & 510 shoes you will be good to go.

I have Nukeproof electrons and 510’s – they work very well together. I switched over 4 years ago as was fed up with comedy falls when tired being unable to unclip and inability to put a foot down on technical terrain.

the guy suggested was riding flats for at least 20% of my rides would benefit me greatly. I’m inclined to believe him too.

Why?

He said that when you ride with SPDs your ankles go stiff and that loses 4inches of natural travel in your leg, riding with flats will help to get that back and that then helps your position on the bike, also stops you getting lazy by relying on the fact you’re clipped in too.

New DMR V12s here and Teva Links

stops you getting lazy by relying on the fact you’re clipped in too.

That’s the main reason, not sure I buy the stiff ankles thing though.

Most people coming from clips need to drop their saddle a little, the really high saddle that you can run when bolted to the bike isn’t desirable on flats.

Simpler than that, clipless pedals are thicker anyway and then you have a cleat between the pedal and your foot. Once these things are removed on thin flat pedals you’ll need your saddle lower just to compensate for the reduction in foot to pedal axle distance.[/quote]

True, but I ended up dropping my saddle by nearly an inch when I changed pedals, so I think it’s more than just the depth of the pedal, it’s also to do with where my feet need to be on flats, i.e. further forward. Everyone’s different though, my point is really that riders need to reconsider more than just the shoes and pedals when making the switch.

And make sure you stick with it OP, give it a few months. It’ll feel weird at first but it’s a good thing to try even if you go back to clips eventually.

That’s the main reason, not sure I buy the stiff ankles thing though.

I have noticed this. It’s wierd but on flats or with toe clips (shopping/utility bike) I definitely pedal properly, flexing the ankle to make the best angle with the foot. It’s almost instant too when I switch from one to the other.

Oh and I really don’t rate my current flats, they may have changed now but mine have pins that are only removable with a 2mm Allen key in the top of the pin.

It’s not the function its the design as the pins fill with muck and then if they get bent or work lose you can’t tighten or remove them without picking the mud out with a pin and a hard pedal strike can make them very hard to get out if at all.

If getting flats again I will go for pins that can be removed from the back with a proper screw head head.

If you are just going to give flats a go and see how you get on with them then you don’t NEED to buy 5:10s. We all managed a few years ago when they didn’t exist. Just go somewhere like TKmax and get some cheap flat sole skate shoes for £25. My brother got a perfect set of etnies for £20 when he started out. Ask around your mates or a local bike shop and someone will have some flat pedals kicking around that they will sell you cheap, or even give to you.

If they become your default pedals then buy something nicer like some Vaults, maybe splash out on some new shoes.

I respectfully disagree with the above. If you’re used to riding in SPDs, then flat pedals will feel weird initially anyway (inefficient, floppy, vague connection with the bike). If you add in super floppy shoes that don’t fit properly for MTB and will get weighed down with water / mud and filled with grit then it’ll sour the experience even further. If the OP is anything like me then they’re liable to giving up early as a result.

If you’re REALLY on a budget (doesn’t sound like the OP is particularly) It’d be a better idea to track down some used 5:10s and try it out. If you don’t like it, sell on and you’ve lost very little.

Adidas bought 5.10 a while back so they now offer the same Stealth soles on some of their shoes. I have a pair of the Terrex Trails and they are much stiffer than the Tevas I used to ride in. You’ll not regret getting some good flat pedals and shoes and it will improve your riding if you bother to think about it, which seems to be the big failing of the haterz.

DMR Vaults are ace. Not sure if they’re twice as ace as Nanos, probably not, but they are ace nonetheless.

He said that when you ride with SPDs your ankles go stiff and that loses 4inches of natural travel in your leg, riding with flats will help to get that back and that then helps your position on the bike, also stops you getting lazy by relying on the fact you’re clipped in too.

Interesting. I did switch to flats for a while but didn’t like them. Still use them on the commuter bike, but off-road I didn’t get on with them. Haven’t noticed any of the above (and riding rigid, I’d have noticed an extra 4″ of travel!). Will take note of the ankle thing though, see if I can see a difference.

use whatever pedals you want.

foot positioning is the only thing that different from spds

When I did a training day with Jedi above he just used old school vans. Not “MTB specific” trainers. Doesn’t seem to stop him being miles better than 99% of us. I whole heartedly encourage the OP to use flats but I’ve seen a lot of people go down this route and end up going straight back to spds in a few weeks. Not everything has to be mega expensive and “MTB specific”, especially if you just want to give it a go.

it took me a LONG time to fully adjust to flats (precipitated by a broken knee as a result of not unclipping and my tibia apparently being the weakest link 😯 ). I perservered and now I wouldnt go back on my MTB, and perversely I feel MORE secure on flats than spds due to the lack of rotational float.

I’d echo the shoes comment. Get a skate style pair you’d be happy wearing to the pub. As long as they’re flat soled, not recessed like a running trainer, they’ll be grand.

If you go for the Orthotics for Stormtroopers end of the style spectrum, you’ll have spent more money, and you’ll have shoes you won’t wear off the bike if you don’t get on with flats.

Or, best of both worlds, relaxed shoe style foot covering nestled atop 5.10 rubber: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/five-ten-dirtbag-low-shoes/rp-prod118555

If you’re just testing the water, get a pair of these for £33

http://www.carboncycles.cc/?s=0&c=84&p=940

and use an old pair of skate shoes.

Spending circa £80-£100 on a pair of mtb specific flat shoes is a bit overkill imo, especially if you’re just trying it out. Only real difference for me is the stiffer soles which can make a difference over longer rides (currently using some AM41’s with decimated soles!)

I don’t totally buy that tbh. Yes some flat skate shoes are great on flats, but some are terrible. Even within brands- my old dot-soled Vans Bricks were superb (though very flexy soled). Another pair I bought (Baxters?) were terrible- plasticky and gripless. I’ve no idea how you can tell, without trying.

IMO the key difference is just that attached to the bike, you can get away with a lot of bad technique whereas on flats, you’d die. Good technique looks much the same for both. So frinstance, spds don’t make you ride stiff- but they allow it, whereas flats force you to ride soft.

Shimano am41s very good shoes grippy, good in shitty weather/conditions I have just taken a pair if Hope f20 flats off not very good & replaced with a pair of plastic Nukeproof electrons for £30 a very good upgrade in my eyes for a quarter of the price

You can get a resole in stealth 5 dot rubber on pretty much any trailer/ old spd shoe at feet first

I’m finding a set of newly purchased Deity Nylon composite ones extremely grippy and nice and thin profile an in colours too if you like that kinda thang.

I went for green

+1 plastic Nukeproofs. I’ve had various pairs of the Superstar ones but the bearings kept going. I thought I would try the Nukeproofs just as a cheap alternative but I have found I really like them. For shoes I tend to use whatever five tens I can find for sale.

catvet – Member
You can get a resole in stealth 5 dot rubber on pretty much any trailer/ old spd shoe at feet first

True, but at £53 including P&P, why? The shoes would need to be pretty mint for that to be worth it.by the time my shoes need a resolve the lining’s worn through at the heel and maybe round the toe box. And new Dirtbags, complete with Stealth, are the same price.

+1 Ned; it’s a great idea, except my new 5.10s, Tevas, AM41s all cost less than a re-sole.

I have a brand new set of Deity Composites for sale if you’re interested.

Email in profile.

also have a few pairs of Vans if you’re a size 9/10.

Thanks for all your help, it’s really interesting to see what everyone’s take is.

Me? I think I’ve settled on a pair of Five Tens – probably Freerider Elements due to not living in California – they’ve been the brand that friends have recommended and I like the idea of a grippy sole (probably just in my head but that’s where half the battle’s won anyway). Pedals-wise I’ve narrowed it down to having thru pins and looking nice without being eye-wateringly expensive (that’s the Vault’s out then).