So my bro got caught speeding

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  • So my bro got caught speeding
  • Premier Icon Poopscoop
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    tpbiker – Member
    Depends your definition of recklessness though..

    Speeding isn’t nesecarily reckless or dangerous.

    Not necessarily, in theory but given that the faster the speed, if things go wrong they tend to go very wrong where would you set the limit?

    Whatever limit you give, people will still say they can drive faster than that, safely.

    So you either have a speed limit that some don’t agree with or no limit at all?

    I personally find boasts about braking speed limits (not necessarily on here by the way guys) akin to people having a laugh because they got home safe after “a few beers” down the pub.

    jambourgie
    Member

    In case there are any keen policemen out there I’d just like to add that I don’t drive at silly speeds. My car starts breaking up over 90mph and would need most of the M1 to get up to 100mph.

    I’m just siding with the 180MPH’ers on this thread because they’re funnier.

    180mph through a classroom on the other hand is totally unacceptable.

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    If two identical cars doing 70mph and 90mph slam on at the same point, at the point where the car doing 70mph stops (potentially avoiding collision), the car doing 90mph is still doing 70mph.

    very basic calculations would suggest you’d actually be doing about 55mph. Still enough to kill you and the poor bastard you hit, assuming at 70mph you stop just behind the stricken car or whatever whilst at 90mph you plow right into it. If the car is initially doing 100mph then the original assertion would be true I think.

    tpbiker
    Member

    I’m not saying there should not be speed limits. If everyone drove at 100mph all the time regardless of traffic conditions then it would be carnage. I’m frankly staggered that that’s not the case on the autobahn. If it was up to me I’d probably bump it up to 80, but no more.

    wrightyson
    Member

    I may have slightly 😳 broken the speed limit taking the wife to hospital mid labour on wrightyson jnr no 2. Her waters broke 10 yards after getting out of the car. I’d had it 4 weeks, I would have been very upset if I hadn’t have gone a bit quickly on that journey. It was 3am, No one around, I might have also rlj’d at a crossroads. Should I burn?

    sbob
    Member

    theotherjonv – Member

    Possibly, but cycling in a city had a purpose too, to get places. What’s the purpose of driving at 150mph on the public highway that can’t be achieved by driving at 70

    Same purpose as driving at 6mph.
    It’s a convenience.
    It’s getting from A to B quickly.
    Me saying it’s ok to do 180mph is exactly the same as molgrips someone else saying it’s ok to do 60mph.
    It’s selfishness.

    sbob
    Member

    wrightyson – Member

    Should I burn?

    Using the vehicle for the purposes of an ambulance, no?

    curto80
    Member

    There was an article posted by the West Midlands traffic police recently which argued that motorists need to now be properly regulated because they cannot be trusted to self-moderate their driving behaviour. They were absolutely right and some of the attitudes on this thread demonstrate why.

    https://trafficwmp.wordpress.com/2017/02/10/driving-an-extinction-event/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    I can’t think of any other context where systemic criminality is casually accepted like it really doesn’t matter and motorists are free to break the law as they please because in their subjective opinion it’s not dangerous to drive 112 mph “in context” or because they can’t possibly be expected to take responsibility for monitoring their own speed the whole time.

    Illegal driving is a huge problem in our society but we can’t or won’t recognise it and deal with it because it’s just not convenient. But you can’t cherry pick. If you take the view that the motorist can choose when to comply and when to break the law, that speeding is fine in the right “context”, then you shouldn’t be surprised when you get close-passed, or an HGV driver jumps a red light, or someone opens a door on you as you cycle past. By accepting that we’re allowed to speed we’re accepting that road traffic law compliance is entirely voluntary. And that’s why our roads are so lawless and dangerous.

    Edukator
    Member

    There’s a tracker thing in my car which tells the maker where it is and what it’s doing. If they linked that to the GPS and the limiter I need never worry about speed limits again, and simply drive at the speed that seemed approriate up to but never beyond the speed limit. So please, Mr Renault get your act together.

    The roads would be safer, there would be less traffic jams (do some research before you jump on your keyboard to rubbish this), less oil would be imported, less pollution produced. The technology is available and yet isn’t even proposed as an option. I want a car that won’t let me break speed limits.

    Anyhow, now that car have trackers and black boxes in air bags etc. if you do speed then expect to get charged with careless or dangerous driving and spend time in jail if your speeding contributes to an accident in which someone is killed or seriously hurt.

    trail_rat
    Member

    Yep Jim jam and if it only monitors tire pressure and temperature then it’s exactly as blind as I said it would be….. What if due to a manufacturing defect it’s delaminated. Your car won’t see that ….. You start doing 120 on motorway and……Bang your upside down in the Armco.

    Fella on here had a blow out at speed limit a few years back . Looked pretty horrific but both he and his kids walked away.

    trail_rat
    Member

    Ha finally something we agree on edukator.

    The less speeding means less traffic jams is a thing.

    Means more uniform traffic arrival at bottle necks. Most recently experienced when they average speed cameras the a90 . Now bridge of Dee is actually usable as it’s a steady stream instead of those the majority of who left dundee at 6.30-6.40-6.50-7.00 and 7.30 all arriving at the same time

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    Driving over the speed limit ‘to get there quickly’ isn’t a convenience, it’s selfishness still, saying I can’t be bothered to allow the time necessary to complete this journey (yes there will I’m sure be exceptions)

    The same sort of selfishness as amber gamblers, cutting in at the front of queues, etc.

    We’re all in this together, driving is a tool and it works better for all if we all follow the same rules, not just the ones we like.

    And besides, who’s going anywhere at 3am on an empty motorway at 150mph and needs to get there quicker. 99% that’s just using it as a track day.

    The current speed limits are completely anachronistic and I’m sure a lot of people could safely drive at 120mph. Here’s 3 reasons why upping the speed limit by that much is a bad idea:

    1) the environmental impact of that extra speed is not insignificant. Your car gets significantly less efficient at higher speeds, and outputs more noxious gases.

    2) not everyone is a driving god. I am in my early thirties so I have several years’ experience yet my faculties haven’t broken down yet. My eyesight is perfect, I don’t have arthritis in my neck limiting movement, my reactions are quick etc etc. So I’m probably (like most of you people) pretty capable of driving fast. But there are a hell of a lot of drivers who are older, mentally slower, have niggling injuries etc. You don’t want them to feel pressured to drive at 120mph because it’s the new norm and some tool in an Audi TDI is tailgating them. Whilst I’m sure I could drive at 120-130 for brief periods, it’s mentally taxing, and I wouldn’t be safe doing it for any length of time.

    3) at 70mph, people slowly overtake the 55mph trucks and other cars. It’s fairly safe. You get the occasional pillock that drives at 40mph on the motorway (which is dangerous) but on the whole people are moving at similar speeds. If you increase the speed limits a lot, the closing speed between fast and slow vehicles is going to be massive. DANGER.

    So whilst on a personal level I’d love to see speed limits increased, I don’t think it’ll ever happen. Frankly I’m just waiting for the day when I can sit back, relax and watch a film while my car does all the driving.

    I don’t drive on the motorway that often but I wouldn’t like to see the limit increased. The amount of lane jumping with no indication and people braking for no discernible reason is enough to make me uneasy about the idea.

    Curto80 – well said. It’s nice to see a sensible post on a driving thread for a change. it’s truly staggering the number of people who think they are teh awesomez at driving.

    Premier Icon Sandwich
    Subscriber

    Those that advocate zero speeding tolerance on the motorway, how do you feel when you cross the channel to an 80mph limit.

    Well it is until the rain starts to fall.

    I’ve driven at 180mph without incident.
    I’ve also been rear ended whilst stationary, twice.

    Makes you think.

    Yes, if you stop anyone in the car had better disembark pronto!

    jambourgie
    Member

    And that’s why our roads are so lawless and dangerous.

    Where do you live, Mexico City? 😀

    Here in the UK things are rather more sedate.

    mikertroid
    Member

    Since the majority of M-way accidents occur in Lane 1 due to interaction with traffic in the hard shoulder, I think speed can be discounted as a major contributor to accidents on the M-way. Better control of driving standards and perhaps more patrol cars rather than a reliance on cameras should be the way ahead.

    80 Mph would be a new reasonable M-way speed, many drivers are maxed out much beyond 70 anyhow and can’t work out which lane they should be in (Lane 1 unless overtaking), can’t work out which lights to use (headlights unless vis <100m) and have a phone in their hand.

    I’ve got no qualms about opening it up where conditions dictate, otherwise I’ll sit at 70mph on the GPS.

    The bottom line is that speed is quantifiable by automated equipment, standards are not. Therefore we’ll always have a focus on speed rather than lane discipline. That said, urban and residential areas should have zero tolerance to speeding.

    gonefishin
    Member

    If two identical cars doing 70mph and 90mph slam on at the same point, at the point where the car doing 70mph stops (potentially avoiding collision), the car doing 90mph is still doing 70mph.

    I’d like to see a source for that.

    It’s the right idea but the numbers are a bit out as it’s all to do with peoples mistaken belief that brakes remove speed in linear fashion; they don’t they remove energy which is not quite the same thing. Assuming the two cars are identical (i.e. have the same mass) then the amount of kinetic energy that each has can be represented as the square of the velocity (E = 0.5*m*v^2) so for a car doing 70 it is 4900 and the car doing 90 is 8100. Subtract the “70” from the “90” and you get 3200 which when you take the square root to get back to the speed would be 56 mph as previously. To have the second car still doing 70 you would need it to be doing about 100 mph (well 99 but close enough)

    jimjam
    Member

    trail_rat – Member

    Yep Jim jam and if it only monitors tire pressure and temperature then it’s exactly as blind as I said it would be….. What if due to a manufacturing defect it’s delaminated. Your car won’t see that ….. You start doing 120 on motorway and……Bang your upside down in the Armco.

    Every single argument you can come up with regarding a mechanical failure is still safer and less likely with a fully autonomous car. A car monitoring its tyre pressure and temps is far more likely to not drive than leaving that job up to a person. The delamination issue is more likely to happen due to human neglect. In an autonomous high performance car any catastrophic failure is likely to be safer than having a human behind the wheel as the car will detect and correct quicker than a person could and traffic around it will be safer too.

    Tesla and Google seem to be anticipating that their cars will be exceeding the speed limit, either legally or illegally so it’ll be an interesting transition at any rate.

    mrlebowski
    Member

    So you sit in the fast lane doing 70mph? You could like, move over…

    Highway Code understanding fail, you need a recap…..there’s no such thing as a “fast lane”….makes me wonder what else you’ve failed to retain about the HC.

    🙄

    Rule 264

    mrlebowski
    Member

    I’d like to see a source for that.

    Having done the same course & seen the same vid with Tiff, I can vouch for that.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    gonefishin wrote:

    It’s the right idea but the numbers are a bit out as it’s all to do with peoples mistaken belief that brakes remove speed in linear fashion; they don’t they remove energy which is not quite the same thing.

    Right answer, wrong reasoning. At least assuming you’re meaning that brakes don’t remove speed in a linear fashion with respect to time – given that under maximum braking acceleration (deceleration) is effectively a constant limited by friction then that’s exactly what they do – ie if it takes 1s to slow down from 70 to 50 it will also take 1s to slow down from 90 to 70. However in that 1s you will travel only 3/4 of the distance when slowing down from 70 to 50 compared to slowing down from 90 to 70 (average speed 60 vs 80). Hence the numbers do work out so that brakes remove energy in a linear fashion with respect to distance (however that’s not the way people usually measure braking performance, it just happens that’s how the numbers fall out).

    Edukator – Nissan GTR’s have an on board satnav linked limiter based on whether it’s sitting on a road or track. So it’s not only doable but has been done.

    I think the main reason a lot of motorways (usually around cities) couldn’t have limits raised is more to do with line of sight, if you can’t see where you can reasonably stop then it’s too fast.

    bikebouy
    Member

    Anyone with a modern car these days can scroll through the OBC and find out what the most recent speed is, or average speed since the cars reset button was pressed or even going back as an overall average since the car left the show room..

    My average since leaving the showroom shows 33mph, and I’ve just clocked 3900miles since new..

    Whilst it’s no proof of any speeding offences caused/not caused it’s a clear indication of the speeds I do.

    Now I know some of you lot would turn ferocious if following me, but I care not one jot. I will always drive under the speed limits, and not really GAS about your perceived sense of entitlement.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Bikebouy wrote:

    My average since leaving the showroom shows 33mph, and I’ve just clocked 3900miles since new..
    Whilst it’s no proof of any speeding offences caused/not caused it’s a clear indication of the speeds I do.

    Not necessarily – it might just be that you spend a lot of time in traffic jams and floor it whenever you have the opportunity (recently my trip average speed was very low because my car had spent significant time idling on the drive). Average speed over the lifetime of a car is a very useless piece of information.

    Mister P
    Member

    It’s nothing much to do with the original post in this thread, but the bloke who overtook me in a village this morning as I was doing 30 in a 30 limit simply so he could get to the next queue of traffic slightly more quickly was a prize winning stroker of cock.

    Where are people going that is so damn important?

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/free-flow-vehicle-speeds-in-great-britain-2015

    In 2015, on motorways:

    46% of both cars and light commercial vehicles exceeded the speed limit (70 mph)
    11% of cars and 12% of light commercial vehicles exceeded the speed limit by 10 mph or more
    the level of speed limit compliance was 99% for articulated heavy goods vehicles (with 60 mph speed limit)
    Across all road types, national speed limit single carriageways had the highest level of speed limit compliance for cars in 2015 with 92% of cars not exceeding the speed limit (60 mph).

    For all vehicle types, 20 mph roads had the lowest level of speed limit compliance in 2015. 44% of articulated heavy goods vehicles (HGVs) exceeded the speed limit on 30 mph roads.

    kerley
    Member

    Average speed over the lifetime of a car is a very useless piece of information.

    Agree. My average speed is 28mph over the last year. I am not very good at staying within speed limit but I don’t drive on motorways so my rather low average speed gives no indication of my driving.

    curto80
    Member

    I lived and drove in Sao Paulo for three years so I have the perspective you are referring to. I also had a good pal killed at Ipley Crossroads in the New Forest which is maybe one of the reasons I am a little sensitive about this stuff…

    And that’s why our roads are so lawless and dangerous.

    Where do you live, Mexico City?
    Here in the UK things are rather more sedate.

    trail_rat
    Member

    Jimjam in your mind maybe.

    Speed = momentum. More momentum equals more damage.

    Regardless of system shit goes wrong .

    Premier Icon Cougar
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    Across all road types, national speed limit single carriageways had the highest level of speed limit compliance for cars in 2015 with 92% of cars not exceeding the speed limit (60 mph).

    That doesn’t surprise me, it’ll be because 91% of them don’t have the faintest notion what the limit actually is.

    Now I know some of you lot would turn ferocious if following me, but I care not one jot. I will always drive under the speed limits, and not really GAS about your perceived sense of entitlement.

    Well done, you are also part of the problem. What do you expect to achieve by always driving under the limit as opposed to driving to the conditions up to the limit?

    trail_rat
    Member

    To be fair I drive under the limit of the road a majority of the time.

    But to the limits of my vehicle.

    My camper does 55mph on cruise as any more and the fuel economy drops below 20mpg and it gets noisy due to being low geared for towing as well as being near as damnit 3500kg to stop an that doesn’t happen in a hurry. Neither does it corner like an exige.

    My landy does 55 ….. As much more and the engines doing max rpm which is neither good for my engine nor my ears again due to low gears for towing. Again doesn’t stop in a hurry nor corner well….

    Limits a limit not a target.

    taxi25
    Member

     My average speed is 28mph over the last year.

    13mph for me 😳 my cycling average is above that !!

    Premier Icon Daffy
    Subscriber

    Just because areas of the autobahn are unrestricted doesn’t mean everyone drives at max speed. I’ve driven regularly at high speeds in Germany and it’s fine. The car your driving tends to set its own max where it’s comfortable and safe to travel at speed and it’s usually well below vMax. People (usually) set their own limits based on their comfort levels at speed.

    sbob
    Member

    Edukator – Reformed Troll

    There’s a tracker thing in my car which tells the maker where it is and what it’s doing. If they linked that to the GPS and the limiter I need never worry about speed limits again, and simply drive at the speed that seemed approriate up to but never beyond the speed limit. So please, Mr Renault get your act together.

    The roads would be safer

    It would result in people sitting on the limiter inappropriately, as already demonstrated by lorry drivers.

    sbob
    Member

    Daffy – Member

    Just because areas of the autobahn are unrestricted doesn’t mean everyone drives at max speed. I’ve driven regularly at high speeds in Germany and it’s fine. The car your driving tends to set its own max where it’s comfortable and safe to travel at speed and it’s usually well below vMax. People (usually) set their own limits based on their comfort levels at speed.

    Our roads are a lot safer than Germany’s.
    Just sayin’. 🙂

    mrlebowski
    Member

    Limits a limit not a target.

    This.

    If someone’s happiest doing no more than 65 in a 70, regadrless of whether the conditions are good or bad, then so what?

    As long as their lane discipline is correct then they are doing nothing wrong & not being a problem.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    squirrelking wrote:

    Well done, you are also part of the problem. What do you expect to achieve by always driving under the limit as opposed to driving to the conditions up to the limit?

    No – the problem remains those people who drive over the limit. Definitively bikebouy is safer driving under the limit rather than over it. I note that he doesn’t say how much under the limit he drives, but aiming to always drive under it is quite laudable (I note it’s something I don’t always do, so I’m not patting myself on the back). What he expects to achieve is making the roads a slightly safer place.

    I presume you’re doing the usual conflation of somebody doing something perfectly legal and safe being dangerous because it forces other people to be dangerous.

    km79
    Member

    I’m sure I read not too long ago on this very forum that you will now fail your driving test if you do not drive at the speed limit. Perhaps those suggesting others should resit their driving test practice what they preach.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    As long as their lane discipline is correct

    Which it almost never is.

    At an indicated 65 the differential between your speed and that of most lorries is walking pace. So you’d either have to be constantly weaving in and out of traffic or sat in the middle lane for miles on end. Congratulations, you’re now a rolling road block and the entire rest of the motorway is crammed into lane 3 trying to drive perfectly legally at 70mph.

    If you want to use the motorway then drive at 70 (assuming conditions are favourable), drive at 55 and stick to the first lane, or take the ****ing bus.

    trail_rat
    Member

    Funny you should mention that km79

    I sat mine again in November for extra entitlement and got 0 faults.

    Drive to conditions and vehicle limitations but do not hinder.

    Rarely did i do the limit as conditions did not allow.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    I’m sure I read not too long ago on this very forum that you will now fail your driving test if you do not drive at the speed limit.

    Dunno about “now” but it was the case when I learned to drive back in like 1990. You’ll fail if you don’t drive to the posted limits unless there’s a valid reason not to. Or at least, that’s what my instructor told me and I’ve little reason to doubt him.

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    I’m sure I read not too long ago on this very forum that you will now fail your driving test if you do not drive at the speed limit. Perhaps those suggesting others should resit their driving test practice what they preach.

    So you’d fail for not driving past my local school at kicking out time at 30mph.

    Balls.

    sbob
    Member

    So you’d fail for not driving past my local school at kicking out time at 30mph.

    Where conditions allow, obviously.

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