Forgive me if i’m a tad cynical but this reeks of a party sponsored press release, in my younger years i honestly believed we had a true democracy in this country but the older i get (damn unfortunate that one) the more cynical i become as to what actual power the proletariat has in this so called democracy that we are alluded to having – what would it take to engender a genuine overthrow of our current parliamentary democracy and see a true genuine one vote/one person democracy elected in this country, free from party politics and allegiances?.

Perhaps i am deluded as to how we could ever have genuine influence over our rule of law and lifestyle but it’s a wish i would genuinely love to see at some point in my lifetime…….free from so called party allegiances.

Currently one person has a vote, only 65% of those deemed it worth their time to use it, so more engagement would be good. The utopia of no party political agenda/alligences would work once, then all the like minded people would get together and form a government in an attempt to have a broad consensus to take some action. Most of the major parties are aligned to the centre as that is where most of the views of the population sit these days. Since the definitions of the older class system are falling apart and people are changing the “I work with my hands I vote labour” and “I own shares I vote conservative” has come to an end.

In the end of the day a democracy is bad for long term thinking and acting in the best interest of a nation or the world, it would be far better for those with the best ideas to be in charge in a dictatorship, probably world wide so that policies that would ensure the best outcomes for a world as a whole are implemented and succeed, we would need a decent army to quell any rebellion though.

I am still of the “work with my hands and produce something” minority, however realisation has set in and I do see the need for a form of collective policy dictatorship or at least a long term social policy removed from knee jerk reactionary short term political point scoring otherwise we are going to end up chasing our tail as a society, I do realise this will never happen which has led me to believe my continual support of the voting system is an ultimately futile exercise that is akin to placing a band-aid on a compound fracture.

or maybe

Don’t you always get the feeling that successive governments are just muddling through, kinda like you and me in life. That nobody really knows what’s going on and panicking because in a few years it’s all going to collapse.

Interesting. That’s the young MP who was hung out to dry by the coward Osbourne. Obviously this will have had no bearing whatsoever on her decision to quit the government…

2 ‘so called’ uses there. Slippery slope into daily mail rant brain dribbling.

The system exists to serve the few and keep the masses in order. This system has been and is maintained by the few; its not in their interests to change anything, especially as the masses are still lapping up the illusion.

It would be interesting to understand why one third of the voting public are not participating, a google search perhaps may answer that one for me.

A straightforward alternative option on the ballot paper of ‘none of the above’ would be a start, although again, not in the ruling power-holders interests to introduce.

what would it take to engender a genuine overthrow of our current parliamentary democracy and see a true genuine one vote/one person democracy elected in this country, free from party politics and allegiances?

A first step would be a functioning competent press. Having a vote is meaningless if it isn’t an informed vote. Its our own fault really – in the same sense that we only get the government we deserve we only get the press we deserve also. Most news agencies run at a significant loss – the news international papers lose something like 30 million a year, the Independent hasn’t made a penny of profit since it launched. If we were interested in journalism enough that we’d pay papers to hire and resource journalists then we’d have more news and less churning of press releases.

Most of the content of any newspaper is made up of stories that have arrived on the journalist’s desk’s ready written by a PR agency and go to print without anyone having to leave their desk or even pick up the phone.

Because we don’t pay for our news other people do, whether its the Rothermeres and Barclay Brothers who own the loss making papers or commercial enterprises who create bafflingly incorrect statistics which government ministers later call up as fact

Because our press print without scrutiny the electorate votes on the strength of widely held misapprehensions (branded as ‘common sense’) and through lobbying and focus groups and opinion polling we steer power hungry politicians into actions that address and reinforce those misapprehensions at the expense of the truth.

Theres an issue that has been missed in debate over press regulation, which seeks to ensure that the small amount of actual journalism that takes place is done so legally – and thats to ensure that what’s sold as journalism is journalism because at the moment what small amounts of news being produced in blanketed and muffled inbetween wads of PR and Opinion.

Another notion is… one man on vote. Theres the motto of ‘no taxation without representation’ but not every taxpaying entity is a human. At my address are 4 tax paying entities – myself and ms maccruiskeen, plus her business and my business all four pay tax, only two get to vote. Income tax payers are the minority of the tax take for governments so maybe they are over represented democratically.

One of the reasons large corporations have to lobby directly and influence policy covertly is because they can’t vote, they don’t have a legitimate way to influence the public policies that they pay for- maybe if they could vote in some way their influence could at lease be transparent.

The Chloe Smith interview was a deliberate ploy by Osborne, they new at the time they were going to be taken to pieces so Osborne sent her out and she duly got a stuffing.

The right wing press then ran lots of articles calling Paxman a bully for not going easy on her.

A first step would be a functioning competent press.

and having a population who were bothered enough to read and understand the issues without needing a picture book version

Has anyone used the word ‘sheeple’ yet? If not, I’ve got first dibs on it…

Has anyone used the word ‘sheeple’ yet? If not, I’ve got first dibs on it…

Not yet, but we got very close !!

The system exists to serve the few and keep the masses in order. This system has been and is maintained by the few; its not in their interests to change anything, especially as the masses are still lapping up the illusion.

in my younger years i honestly believed we had a true democracy in this country but the older i get (damn unfortunate that one) the more cynical i become as to what actual power the proletariat has in this so called democracy that we are alluded to having

Have you had a “Tony Benn moment” ?

Tony Benn was first elected to parliament as a right-wing Labour MP, hash reality caused a political reassessment :

“As a minister, I experienced the power of industrialists and bankers to get their way by use of the crudest form of economic pressure, even blackmail, against a Labour Government. Compared to this, the pressure brought to bear in industrial disputes is minuscule. This power was revealed even more clearly in 1976 when the IMF secured cuts in our public expenditure. These lessons led me to the conclusion that the UK is only superficially governed by MPs and the voters who elect them. Parliamentary democracy is, in truth, little more than a means of securing a periodical change in the management team, which is then allowed to preside over a system that remains in essence intact. If the British people were ever to ask themselves what power they truly enjoyed under our political system they would be amazed to discover how little it is, and some new Chartist agitation might be born and might quickly gather momentum.”

Tony Benn

Although we should not lose sight of this :

“The civic freedoms which, however inadequately, form part of bourgeois democracy are the product of centuries of unremitting popular struggles”.

Ralph Miliband

hash reality caused a political reassessment :

I don’t think he actually inhaled though.

I blame Thatcher and the Daily Mail…

i reckon it’s the unions and cheese

Thing is, it doesn’t really matter who you vote for for the following reasons:

1) No politician will back policies that might not get them re-elected

2) All politicians are bound by simple economics. They only have so much money, and in reality, with minor differences here and there, they have to spend it in the same way

The driving force is Capitalism, not political imo.

So little news?

There has never been such access to news – local, UK, European, Global etc – in such easy to access formats and so timely. Just take a quick look at any of the front pages today. The same story can also be seen from different national, cultural and religious perspectives almost instantly. Its brilliant. The question is whether people want to inform themselves and read it?

Ditto, if people do not participate in the democratic process (and many dont) then they only have themselves to blame.

Tony Benn makes good points but also interesting that he chose to remain part of the process (not forgetting his son). The summary of the IMF bail-out is a beauty though!!!

maccruiskeen – Member
Most of the content of any newspaper is made up of stories that have arrived on the journalist’s desk’s

This is where the internet is so powerful, if depressing. Its easier to see how papers now carry the same story, word-for-word from the same source with little, if any, analysis and independent input. Laziness or the pressure of 24-hour news schedules????? Or perhaps it was always like that?

maxtorque – Member
1) No politician will back policies that might not get them re-elected

2) All politicians are bound by simple economics.

The two dont follow IMO – everyone is denying/lying etc about the desperate state of our national finances and ignoring basic economic facts exactly because of (1). The Tories boasting about their deficit-reduction policies but ignoring the truth about the actual level of debt – the simple economics that does matter.

I blame everyone!

maccruiskeen Your post was very interesting thanks.

in my younger years i honestly believed we had a true democracy in this country but the older i get (damn unfortunate that one) the more cynical i become

Wecome aboard the good ship Reality, we have no real plans to sail anywhere yet………… or ever in fact !! however life onboard can be greatly enhanced when you understand this and accept it, I find the love of a good woman helps and the odd chicken tikka vindaloo !

Good luck

ps. why is democracy so good anyway ?

why is democracy so good anyway ?

Because we haven’t yet reached a level of development where all conflicting interests have disappeared from society and autonomous self-government is possible. So until that is achieved the will and interests of the majority must triumph over the will and interests of the minority.

Hopefully we will one day have democracy.

the will and interests of the majority must triumph over the will and interests of the minority.

Good luck with that 🙁

There has never been such access to news – local, UK, European, Global etc – in such easy to access formats and so timely. Just take a quick look at any of the front pages today. The same story can also be seen from different national, cultural and religious perspectives almost instantly. Its brilliant. The question is whether people want to inform themselves and read it?

It is very much like the “Yes Prime Minister” episode when Hacker demanded he needed to know everything, and then the important information was hidden in the bottom of the 26th ministerial red box.

When you want to improve things you can have a look around at what others are doing and pick the best from them.

There are a few things that could be done:

1. A democratically elected House of Lords (most modern democracies have these!)

2. Proportional representation – unfortunately shut down recently as no one seems to understand it. In places like Australia it makes sure that a wider range of voices are heard while maintaining stable governments. This leads to less disenfranchisement (as above)

3. Much harder we need to stop the focus on corporate/economic short termism and move to more sustainable goals – we could dream – actually Germany seems to have some good examples of this.

If you look back at where we came from – rigid class system, no votes for women, etc.. things are better than for more people than most of history.

I have no idea where we will go but I suspect that the internet may eventually revolutionise how democracies work.. as people express their opinions, pass information and organise in new ways – its a few years out.. I don’t have a clue how it is going to change but it’ll be interesting