I’m not sure that you can ‘be’ offensive?

Communication is somewhat pointless if the receiver decides what my words mean

Toys i teach my kids the same though it the eldest who presses buttons and the youngest who [over] reacts- the eldest also gets told off for being mean though.

as i said its a bit of both depending as the eldest means to be annoying but the youngest does not need to react.

If I’m offended by something, I can choose not to show it. But offence is felt whether I show it or not.

I do not doubt it. But you could also choose to not be offended. Its difficult to do if its emotionally charged, but you can do it. I know I do (not always successfully) .

Communication is somewhat pointless if the receiver decides what my words mean

I think this is what hopefully the racists would start to feel if the racially oppressed stopped letting it get to them. (I’m not proposing this as the only solution, but it is a powerful tool).

Anyway the receiver always decides what the words mean, offensive or not.

Its difficult to do if its emotionally charged, but you can do it. I know I do (not always successfully) .

Where is the choice? And how do you know that you have to make it?

You know that you have to make it when you feel offended.

edlong – Member

There is always a hint of racism in all of us.

It might be pedantic of me to point out that there are plenty of people of a scientific bent who don’t accept the concept of race at all as it’s popularly understood.

They don’t have to accept the concept but just have to live with it as it will never change for a long time …

Given that the same prejudices are there, if you call them ethnic nationalism, certainly does seem pedantic, but at least recognising that “race” is actually a load of cobblers strips it of any veneer of pseudo-scientific rationalising.

Scientific rationality has no place in social prejudices as we are not predictable and certainly not rational.

You know that you have to make it when you feel offended.

Ok.

I’m talking about a personal concept in dealing with shite you get on a daily basis. Often you have not been given any shite, you just misinterpreted it, or if someone did try and make you feel bad you have to try and deal with it. Ie do not let them get to you internally, so a good, the best, way to get rid of this is to nullify it at source.

EG I get loads of crap here in scotland for being english (and part irish) a bloke yesterday made a particularly cutting and essentially racist remark about the english, unashamedly directed at me. I was pleased because whilst I recognised what he was trying to do, it really had zero effect. I was in away sympathetic as he has been raised to despise me just for country of my birth, which is sad for him really.

toys, it just isn’t that simple.
Insults can be intended or not.
They can be acknowledged as such, or not.

We, as a society, tend to decide which prejudices we currently feel anxious about and attempt to eradicate.
Many other prejudices are aired and accepted without question.

Some of their prejudices displayed by the Victorians seem ridiculous to us now, as those are the ones we have deemed unacceptable.
Different prejudices from the same ere are deemed acceptable and even fetishised and glorified, despite all prejudice by definition springing from ignorance.
Damn, some prejudices have even been developed into political ideologies. 😀

How will we seem to those who come after us?
Ignorant, stupid & prejudiced?
I’d imagine so.

toys, it just isn’t that simple.
Insults can be intended or not.

What simple? It seems complex to me, and yes they can be intended or not.
What is simple is how to deal with it personally. (simple, not easy though)

the receiver always decides what the words mean, offensive or not.

Are you my ex wife? 😉

It depends I am able to express what i think [ sometimes poorly] with words. Its not up to you to decide what i mean its up to me as i pick the words and they have meanings

Your view has a point but at its extreme it fails as senders try to convey meaning with words or there would be no point saying anything I could say anything at all as the reciever decides

Having zoomed in on the ‘offending’ character, he’s a child dressed up, not a doll, in fact he looks a little like a young Michael Jackson. Aren’t Gollywogs stylised representations of minstrels, who did song-and-dance routines in dance halls, so this kid in the painting is actually dressed as a grown-up, not a toy.
This alone makes the preservation of the painting important, to enable the poorly educated and easily offended on other’s behalf to be educated in history, and the need to actually learn from it, not just paint it out, like IKB’s cigar in historical photos, to placate the anti-smoking brigade who felt that images of a great Victorian engineer with a big cigar in his gob will encourage all the kiddie-winkies to start smoking like chimneys.

well communication often fails. I am sorry to tell you this but in my head you do not decide what words mean, that is my decision. I interpret what you say. If you think I have control of your head then you need to take a good long hard look at yourself. 😀

That not what I meant 😉

eg if someone says to me “eff off english scum.” I know exactly what they mean. But I choose to take it to mean, “I am sad person who has restricted life outlook, so I take it out on others who I feel that my peer group will applaud me for doing so. and I need this sense of recognition and belonging to give my pathetic life meaning”

If I choose to accept the former I would feel sad, if I accept the latter it makes me feel a bit sad for him, but also I chortle a bit..

I challenge you to disagree with my interpretation of the meaning of his words.

Easy as remember i decide what they mean not you 😛

That’s what went through my head when I finally spotted what the OP was referring to – Rallo pissing about on a ledge.

Is that racist…

Having zoomed in on the ‘offending’ character, he’s a child dressed up, not a doll, in fact he looks a little like a young Michael Jackson. Aren’t Gollywogs stylised representations of minstrels, who did song-and-dance routines in dance halls, so this kid in the painting is actually dressed as a grown-up, not a toy.

I know you’re probably just back from the pub. But if you can’t see that that’s either a golliwog, or someone dressed as one, then maybe you shouldn’t have had that last pint.

Hint: Google “images: golliwog”

“young Michael Jackson”
😆

deadlydarcy/junkyard,

Would you be more or less offended if the image was replaced with a swastika?.

carbonfibreismadebyaliens – Member
deadlydarcy/junkyard,

Would you be more or less offended if the image was replaced with a swastika?.

What if they just painted an SS uniform onto young Michael Jackson?

I challenge you to disagree with my interpretation of the meaning of his words.

It’s an interpretation that you’ve made. It could be completely untrue. He could be highly educated, successful and rich, but has just decided he doesn’t like English folk. Pretty unlikely I know, but entirely possible. You’ve chosen that scenario so as to feel condescending pity towards his uneducated way. Because you either felt offended or he intended you to. But hang on, only you derive meaning from the words you hear?

Junkyard – lazarus

what about the apology for Turing being prosecuted as gay or the apology for bloody sunday ?
have we all lost out by sanitising history or have we recognised parts of our past were wrong and done things to redress these?

Right so what we should do is paint over the real history- instead of apologising for Bloody Sunday just remove it from the public records, hide every reference you can to it, pretend it never happened. Paint it out and it’s all good.

Nah. If that mural was painted today I can see why people would take issue, but it’s an artifact of its time, warts and all. Heritage isn’t all rainbows and happiness, the past isn’t as black and white (er, oops) as some people would like to pretend. The mural is honest.

Would you be more or less offended if the image was replaced with a swastika?.

I think you’re mixing me up with someone who is offended by the mural are you? I haven’t mentioned anything of the sort. I have been meditating and learning to control my feelings. ( 😉 @ toys)

What if they just painted an SS uniform onto young Michael Jackson?

Your post makes absolutely no sense.

Your post makes absolutely no sense.

I didn’t get it either but I’m working on not feeling offence whatever the case. However, yours didn’t make any to me.

deadlydarcy,

Sorry, I may have misread and somehow picked out your name by mistake.

Fairy nuff, I’m a bit of handwringer at the best of times anyway.

FFS, get a room…

I think Junkyard being intentionally obtuse gave me a small stroke.

teasel,

B&B’s round here are like £100.

Can’t afford that.

🙂

Truck services motel? Rooms by the hour (don’t worry I’ll only last ten minutes anyway).

Just answer me this; when are reruns of the Black and White Minstrel Show going to be on Netflix eh? Well?

so what we should do is paint over the real history- instead of apologising for Bloody Sunday just remove it from the public records, hide every reference you can to it, pretend it never happened. Paint it out and it’s all good

I never said any of that or argued that.

The mural is honest.

and racist/portraying stereotypical images of black peole likely to offend etc.
I think all my kids need to know is the past was a bit more racist than now and we are trying to be less racist. I am not sure they need to see all examples of racism or female oppression or homophobia to get this point tbh.

What if they just painted an SS uniform onto young Michael Jackson?

Genius Its mocking your question as daft FWIW with another daft, but amusing question

I think Junkyard being intentionally obtuse gave me a small stroke.

Where have I been obtuse?

oh hold I shall just interpret that as you saying i was right as its up to me what you mean and I further decide you are being obtuse as well- sadly you now get to decide what that means though- where will it end?

I feel sorry for your kids, fella. Unless, of course, you refrain from talking the type shit you write around this place.

so what we should do is paint over the real history- instead of apologising for Bloody Sunday just remove it from the public records, hide every reference you can to it, pretend it never happened. Paint it out and it’s all good

Although for your analogy to be correct you’d have to keep carrying out bloody sundays, as bloody sunday wasn’t a work of art (although to be fair Para’s would probably argue that it was) that carries on resounding it’s message to every passer by for the rest of eternity.

Otherwise it would be perfectly acceptable for the Southern States to have Klu Klux Klan inspired art in schools and for the Swastika to still be hung outside the Reichstag.

bloody sunday wasn’t a work of art (although to be fair Para’s would probably argue with that)

Dark, man – real dark.

I still chuckled, though…

What a load rubbish, it’s a historical painting done when a golliwog was not an insult, it was a toy doll.

I had one! I loved it.

Are you black?

Where have I been obtuse?

The entire thread.

oh hold I shall just interpret that as you saying i was right as its up to me what you mean and I further decide you are being obtuse as well- sadly you now get to decide what that means though- where will it end?

This isn’t coherent, I’ve read it three times and it still makes no sense.

Your logic on the picture is severely flawed. I’ll try and remember to come back to this thread tomorrow and re-explain* why.

*It has already been explained why it’s OK more than once ITT.

Is this morphing into the grammar thread again?