I’m interested to know why you think it’s ‘pointless’.
In terms of progressing this particular debate it is pointless.

Not really. The crux of the issue is defining the term ‘rich’. I fail to see how introducing a little perspective is pointless. It’s something a lot of people could do with a lot more of IMO.

Most of us in this country are incredibly lucky to have been born where we were, and yet I hear so much whining.

Most of us in this country are incredibly lucky to have been born where we were, and yet I hear so much whining.

and yet somehow I doubt this thread will change any of that…..

No idea how anyone can argue that what you earn is not related to how well off you are.

Well it’s sort of related – depends how much you’ve earnt in total over what period of time really.

If I’m rich it’s because of my assets not my income – the income helped but asset appreciation was the biggest part; if I’d never bought a property I wouldn’t feel well off.

Most of us in this country are incredibly lucky to have been born where we were, and yet I hear so much whining.

The number in poverty dropped after the crash in Ireland. Not because the poorer had become better off, but because the rich had become poorer.

Funny business “poverty”.

The number in poverty dropped after the crash in Ireland. Not because the poorer had become better off, but because the rich had become poorer.
Funny business “poverty”.

Income inequality is the big issue, and one where this country is particularly bad.

No idea how anyone can argue that what you earn is not related to how well off you are.

Of course it is, but it’s only one factor. I’m sure even the most stubborn of us can see that.
If you inherited your house from your parents you’re going to be better off than someone who earns a bit more than you, but has to pay a mortgage.

No idea how anyone can argue that what you earn is not related to how well off you are.

I didn’t, perhaps you didn’t mean me, but you quoted me! It is linked but not directly

If my buddy is sacked tomorrow he has nothing, not a pot to piss in, by anyones definition surely that is not rich or wealthy, he squandered the potential to become rich and wealthy, whereas other people have become relativley wealthy by earning a modest to good salary and being prudent with the balance not needed to live on.

Income inequality is the big issue, and one where this country is particularly bad.

I’d like to see a worldwide figure. I bet the income gap between the poor in poor countries compared to the poor here has widened more than the local gap.

The number in poverty dropped after the crash in Ireland. Not because the poorer had become better off, but because the rich had become poorer.
Funny business “poverty”.

There’s good evidence showing that having a society with a smaller gap between rich and poor is good for everyone, including the rich.

Not really sure how your statement is a response to my post though. Are you suggesting people are right to be whiny and lacking in perspective?

Not really sure how your statement is a response to my post though. Are you suggesting people are right to be whiny and lacking in perspective?

I guess because it’s a psychological thing, which appeared to be your implication. People don’t realise how well off they are in real terms. Hence all the whining.

Perspective is insanely hard to come by. I earn comfortably over £60k, but I work in an industry servicing people who regard that as small change. I have to constantly remind myself that a good workable definition of wealth is “wouldn’t be a catastrophe if I lost my job tomorrow” and “owns a private jet instead of leasing one” is so far removed from the concerns of almost every human who has ever lived that it is borderline surreal. 🙂

owns a private jet instead of leasing one

You mean you lease?

Tsk Tsk, should have worked harder at school…..

That awful feeling when the stewardess calls you “sir” because she also works for other people…

Perspective is insanely hard to come by.

Indeed. I’m reading this thread after coming out of a meeting with 3 people, all of whom will earn a good 7 digits in salary alone, got back to my desk to find someone clearing my bin who is probably earning minimum wage. Same company, same office, all people i’d have a drink with. Quite a disparity though.

The cleaner will probably think i’m rich, but the guys I was just with would wonder how I get by at all.

I had a humanities/languages degree

The languages bit may not help you get on the ladder at the bottom but it sure as hell makes the climb to the top a lot more speedy in a lot of companies.

To work here as above a certain grade (above about 40k-50k) you have to speak a second language, no matter what the role.

The humanities bit is rightly useless!

A £60k per year salary is a reasonable one but I would say it is not one that qualifies you as rich. I say that in the context of the country we live in rather than in a global context. The other parts to the context are your location and dependents. As has been said several times, one person earning £60k sounds amazing to many people but if that is the only income in a family then it’s not that amazing. Two people earning around £26k each will almost certainly make the family better off than a single £60k earner.
Then you factor in what you decide to spend your money on. While I cannot back it up with hard facts the distinct impression I get is that a lot of people either live up to their means or live beyond them. That’s a choice. Not one that I would personally commend as a good one but we do at least live in a country where we can make that choice. The net result of that is what makes you feel well off or skint. Personally I find it difficult to have much sympathy for people that earn a good salary yet spend it all trying to keep up with the latest piece of German engineering in the driveway and big ass television, expensive foreign holidays etc etc while complaining about having no money.

Back to the original topic though – I would agree. A £60k salary is not something that makes you rich.

Two people earning around £26k each will almost certainly make the family better off than a single £60k earner.

Not sure how ?

Firstly they would earn less.

Secondly, if they had kids, they would have to pay for child care on top of the already smaller take home pay.

Because they will pay less tax

Agree that childcare could take a chunk out of that though

One person on 60k takes home more than 2 people on 26k (not much more, but more)

…Not sure how ?

Because they will pay less tax

I think you missed a couple of the points I made.

Firstly they would earn less…..

…..the already smaller take home pay.

Perspective is insanely hard to come by. I earn comfortably over £60k, but I work in an industry servicing people who regard that as small change.

My dreams are shattered, all along I thought you’d be a bleeding edge engineer, only to discover you’re a fluffer 😥

Not sure how ?

Firstly they would earn less

As mentioned they are likely to pay less tax and that tax will only be at basic rate. A £60k earner will be paying a slice of higher rate tax.

Secondly, if they had kids, they would have to pay for child care on top of the already smaller take home pay.

Er, but wouldn’t that also apply to the £60k earners? If we are keeping all things equal. Also, the two £26k earners are still likely to qualify for some child benefit (assuming kids) which the £60k earner will not be entitled to.

2 earners on £28k is about the point where a single £60k makes you worse off tax wise

Isn’t being rich to do with disposable income? If so then headline salary is a red herring. A family of 4 or more will not feel too rich on £60k a year, and would probably feel quite squeezed in the SE, whereas a young person living on their own outside of the UK will be living it up like a king on £30k a year and would effectively be richer than the family with £60k.

There is definitely a window where you just drop into the higher tax bracket where you definitely lose out in terms of take home pay.

Also outside of the SE £60k a year jobs are senior management jobs within organisations, so not many about, so it is more likely you’ve got a joint income equaling £60k, which means child care costs come into the mix which completely and utterly decimates your disposable income. And dropping one job is definately not an option for many.

Its definitely squeezed middle territory where you’re, in theory, a high earner, and constantly being told by others that you’re a high earner, but not living like a high earner or reaping the benefits you think you should be as a high earner.

As mentioned they are likely to pay less tax and that tax will only be at basic rate. A £60k earner will be paying a slice of higher rate tax.

The take home pay of 2 x £26k is less than 1 x £60k

Simple.

young person living on their own

Single home occupier is quite an expensive lifestyle. Generally married couples without kids would be the most cash rich group.

In terms of just PAYE:

£26k has £9,440 tax free, £2,790 @ 10%, (26000-9440-2790)= £13,770 @20%

So pays tax of £279 + £2754 = £3033 PAYE

So two earners on £26k have a take home of £45,934

£60k has £9,440 tax free, £2,790 @ 10%, £32,010 @ 20%, (60000-9440-2790-32010) = £15716 @ 40%

So pays tax of £279 + £6402 + £6286.4 = £12966 PAYE

So a single £60k earner has a take home of £47,034

So nearly the same….

…So nearly the same….

Or, to put it another way….

Two people on £26k each earn less than one person on £60k ?

😉

Cant believe no one’s posted this yet

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Kum8OUTuk[/video]

Two people on £26k each earn less than one person on £60k ?

What’s £80/month between rich people….

The tax calculations are not subject to debate.

http://www.listentotaxman.com

I made this point a few pages back. About £80/mo difference iirc.

…So nearly the same….
Or, to put it another way….

Two people on £26k each earn less than one person on £60k ?

But the two earners on £26k can claim Child Benefit if they have children, that the single earner on £60k cannot, thus making them better off. Assuming they have children, but that was the original thrust of this thread.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Only here could people possibly spend all this time bitching about this shit.

**** s

Only here could people possibly spend all this time bitching about this shit.

Can you let me know the list of approved topics please.

I might have missed the memo.

A couple both on £40k are £2k p.a. better off than my wife and I before you even take Child Benefit into account?

No, I don’t expect any sympathy and don’t feel sorry for myself either – but the system is skewed regardless. We are comfortable, but a couple of hundred quid a month is still a decent chunk of cash to be deprived of due to a flawed system.

And just for the record – no, I don’t think a couple on £40k each should have Child Benefit, just as we shouldn’t be entitled to it either. I don’t resent paying my taxes either – it should be based on household income though.

Wouldn’t it be massively more complicated to administer a household income tax though?

Yes, because household members come and go, quite frequently in some cases.

Was gonna wave my willy here, but before I do, what was the original point of this thread? Am out of country so what was the original ridiculousness which spawned six pages of stw ridiculousness?