so if your not rich earning 60k a year?

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  • so if your not rich earning 60k a year?
  • Flaperon – Member

    Why the resentment at people earning over the average wage?

    No resentment, as I have been on over it by up to 4 times it in the past and next years income will exceed 100k.

    However as for the last 10 years I’ve been below the average I know what the difference means and the problems it creates.

    The real issue is the gap between lowest paid and highest paid and the obscene levels of increases for top earners.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    No resentment, as I have been on over it by up to 4 times it in the past and next years income will exceed 100k.

    However as for the last 10 years I’ve been below the average I know what the difference means and the problems it creates.

    Interesting career with a 4x salary variation….

    MrSmith
    Member

    Why the resentment at people earning over the average wage?

    Usually because people on less money think they work just as hard and are ‘worth’ just as much.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Why the resentment at people earning over the average wage?

    Why not cut your own salary to that of the average wage and get back to us on that ?

    Why not cut your own salary to that of the average wage and get back to us on that ?

    Eh? So you are saying someone on the average wage is justified in resenting someone who earns above it?

    Wow, £60k a year. I live with 3 mates, I don’t think our 4 combined incomes would reach £60k!

    I guess to earn that much, you’d be “cash rich and time poor” or something.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Two salaries at the UK average £26k is only very slightly less take-home than one at £60k.

    So if there’s only one salary in a household with kids etc £60k isn’t as much as you think. Two teachers could easily bring in more, and you wouldn’t consider teaching a rich profession.

    It’s very much down to individual circumstances, and where you live.
    I don’t earn 60k but earn a reasonable salary.

    Getting divorced, starting again in my forties and buying a house with little equity and a large mortgage , whilst paying maintenance, having 3 children, and living as a single parent, certainly doesn’t leave much for luxuries.

    Lots in a worse situation than me though.

    chewkw
    Member

    I wish I could have £60k a year starting this year as I have just been shafted by some back-stabbers at work … 😡

    Now I need to start a business to survive …

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    davidtaylforth – Member
    Wow, £60k a year. I live with 3 mates, I don’t think our 4 combined incomes would reach £60k!

    I guess to earn that much, you’d be “cash rich and time poor” or something.

    as was actually stated in the interview where the figure came from – she was talking about a family in the south east with combined incomes of 50-60k

    warton
    Member

    between us, me and my wife earn about 60k. 700 quid a month childcare tends to make being rich fairly tricky 🙂

    Fair do’s. Still sounds like alot though, when my mum and dad were together, their combined incomes was probably around £30k. Although this was some years ago….

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    I think your concept of £60K pa being rich also depends on what surrounds you. I work in an independent school with fees of £30K pa – I get to see what proper rich actually looks like every day. All of my work colleagues earn less than £60K but a lot live with a working partner so the household income is above. I’d not call any of us rich by comparison. If I was surrounded in my day to day life by those who were receiving income support I might have a different opinion. Similarly I spend a week every year in Swaziland at a rural school and orphanage. I suspect they would think of uk residents on income support as living in the height of luxury.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    she also never said they were rich only that labour had no current plans to increase tax on a 50-60k family

    it was the telegraph that completely misquoted her in the follow up to their own interview with her

    davidtaylforth – this isn’t meant in a derogatory way, but out of interest, how old are you and what do you do if you don’t mind saying?

    28, draw stuff on a computer

    Premier Icon Flaperon
    Subscriber

    Wow, £60k a year. I live with 3 mates, I don’t think our 4 combined incomes would reach £60k!

    I guess to earn that much, you’d be “cash rich and time poor” or something.

    Depends on the job somewhat.

    28, draw stuff on a computer

    Always had you down as a little older tbh 😉 Is there not much money in CAD drawing?

    I can understand that £60k is seen as a very good salary/wage, however does anyone struggle to make £25k – I don’t mean through choice, but genuine situation?

    MrSmith
    Member

    however does anyone struggle to make £25k – I don’t mean through choice, but genuine situation?

    according to this quite a few.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom

    Well, I gathered that much MrSmith – I didn’t really make it clear, but the question was aimed at people who might respond on here, not the general population of the UK so much.

    Premier Icon benji
    Subscriber

    however does anyone struggle to make £25k – I don’t mean through choice, but genuine situation?

    That would be me, but I’m managing, there really isn’t much else around here, and definitely not much pays that kind of figure apart from teaching. But in saying that, it’s not an expensive part of the country to live.

    b r
    Member

    however does anyone struggle to make £25k – I don’t mean through choice, but genuine situation?

    Single and live with your folks, you’ll be fine…

    Have kids, and you’ll be relying on benefits/credits.

    On the mis-quote idea, you can make your mind up re the extent to which the Torygraph were manipulating (or otherwise) what was said.

    The Liberal Democrats have said they would find the money by taxing the richest, which a leaked party document suggested meant anyone earning more than £50,000. Miss Reeves said that it was wrong to consider such people as “rich”. “If you’re a single-earner family in London or the South East on £50,000 or £60,000, you don’t feel particularly rich and you’d be equally aggrieved that people earning between £150,000 and £1?million are getting a tax cut at the same time your taxes are going up.” Miss Reeves said Labour had “shown whose side we are on” by calling for the 50p top rate of tax, which the Coalition cut to 45p, to be reintroduced for those earning more than £150,000 a year.

    Not that it really matters. This is about electioneering pure and simple. Each party knows its target market and the swing markets and will promote policies to maximise their vote. What’s new?

    freeagent
    Member

    Mrs Freeagent and I both have good jobs and probably earn about 80k between us.
    We live in a nice bit of the southeast, have two kids in childcare and various other drains on our income, so no, we don’t feel rich.

    However it is all our choice – We could flog the house tomorrow, buy something in a less desirable area and knock £100k off our mortgage. We could pull the kids out of all their little clubs and classes they do, get rid of one of our cars and have a bit of disposable income, but I’m happy with the way things are.

    We certainly don’t want anything from the government, but would resent paying anymore tax to pay for ridiculous socialist ideologies or other follies.

    Premier Icon Flaperon
    Subscriber

    Mrs Freeagent and I both have good jobs and probably earn about 80k between us.
    We live in a nice bit of the southeast, have two kids in childcare and various other drains on our income, so no, we don’t feel rich.

    Well, according to Junkyard, you’re still scum.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    We certainly don’t want anything from the government, but would resent paying anymore tax to pay for ridiculous socialist ideologies or other follies.

    By ridiculous socialist ideologies I assume you’re referring to free health service, free police force, free schooling for your children etc.

    EDIT ‘free’ at point of use…

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    We live in a nice bit of the southeast, have two kids in childcare and various other drains on our income, so no, we don’t feel rich.

    Yeah… I think of my kids purely as a ‘drain on our income’ too. I also tire of the crazy socialist crap I see going on around me every day, and resent having to pay for it. Britain today, eh? Its bordering on communism!

    Good (correct) edit footflaps!!!

    Premier Icon tonyg2003
    Subscriber

    What this original statement seems to be implying (albeit in a very poorly chosen set of words) is that you can be spending all your disposable income and feel poor earning £60K, especially in the southeast where housing is expensive.

    As a lot of people point out feeling “rich” is completely subjective since it depends on your reference point that you are measuring yourself against. Billionaire or homeless person?

    The Wiki income page states the facts quite clearly. £60K as a single income puts you in the top 10% of earners and 2x£30K as a couple puts you near average income.

    Would I consider someone earning £60K a year rich. No.

    crankrider
    Member

    I can understand that £60k is seen as a very good salary/wage, however does anyone struggle to make £25k – I don’t mean through choice, but genuine situation?

    Wow, Some people really do have their head stuck up their own….

    How much do you think the people that work in Tesco, the high-street, cleaners, low end office workers, pretty much every cycle mechanic or shop worker if you want to get bike related, etc etc earn?? This does not mean London in isolation, lets not forget the rest of the country now 😉

    Seriously… I know STW and biking in reality is very middle class but open your eyes, 25K pa is something many people will only ever dream of, some are just not capable of ever attaining this.

    Wow, Some people really do have their head stuck up their own….

    How much do you think the people that work in Tesco, the high-street, cleaners, low end office workers, pretty much every cycle mechanic or shop worker if you want to get bike related, etc etc earn?? This does not mean London in isolation, lets not forget the rest of the country now

    Seriously… I know STW and biking in reality is very middle class but open your eyes, 25K pa is something many people will only ever dream of, some are just not capable of ever attaining this.

    I know what the minimum wage is you dullard, so maybe you get your head out of your arse 😉 – it was a question aimed at the STW demographic.

    I know some people have chosen jobs well below that pay grade – TJ for example. He seemed happy with what he was doing (maybe TJ & ‘happy’ is an oxymoron though) so good for him.

    On a forum populated by ‘mostly’ seemingly intelligent people, with a pretty expensive hobby – and if the stereotypes are to be believed, a background in IT and an Audi on the drive (a load of balls, I know) – I seriously wanted to know how many people really struggle to get close to that wage.

    I work in the Construction Industry mostly, so none of your mamby pamby 8 hr days 😉 £10per hr x 10hrs x 5 days x 50 weeks = £25k.

    Maybe I did set the bar a little high – take off breaks, maybe 48 weeks, not 50 – so £20k then? General unskilled labourers can get £8 per hour, is £10 still seen as a good wage?

    crankrider
    Member

    It sounded like you were sitting on your throne looking with the assumption that earning over 25k is an easy choice to make…

    I know some people have chosen jobs well below that pay grade – TJ for example. He seemed happy with what he was doing (maybe TJ & ‘happy’ is an oxymoron though) so good for him.

    You are still missing the point that people have ‘chosen’ jobs well below the pay grade – i would suggest to you that many people have jobs out of survival and existance, not choice.

    Personally, even if I discarded the past 25 years I’ve been in work, I think I would be able to go out and earn £20-25k without too many issues. Don’t think for a minute I’m assuming this is possible for everyone – I’m not that daft.

    My question was really borne from davidtaylforths comments – I’m intrigued as to whether people ON HERE AND CAPABLE OF REPLYING are on low incomes, why they are on low incomes, what could be done to change that and whether it’s a lifestyle choice, or circumstance that’s governed that.

    If someone chooses to work in an LBS for £7.50 an hour, yet could go to the local quarry and earn £10 an hour, that’s a choice.

    If someone has split from their partner, has children to look after and the only work available to suit them is minimum wage at Tesco, then not so much a choice.

    Choosing to learn a trade is a choice – being born on a rough council estate in the North East, with industry closing down and no apprenticeships available removes that choice somewhat.

    I’m lucky to a certain extent as to where I live – I’ve still made choices that have determined where I am today. I’m currently out of work for up to 3 months due to injury (self-employed). Have I sat round getting into debt? No, I’ve adapted to survive.

    Whilst there are millions who don’t have so much choice, there will still be plenty who bemoan the situation they are in, without having the gumption to even try and do something about it.

    There’s a certain company that gets mentioned quite a bit on here – I can see how that was started with a little bit of get-up and go, not necessarily a lot of money and by my reckoning should be making reasonable profits (impossible to know how much obviously).

    grum
    Member

    There’s a lot of talk here about how people resent those earning more. I don’t – but I do resent people who earn plenty and endlessly moan on about how skint they are, and how they pay too much tax, and how they’re only going to be able to afford 3 foreign holidays this year.

    The guy I know who earns the most money is happy to contribute and never whinges about tax or lack of cash – his wife does though!

    There’s a lot of really vitally important jobs out there that require a lot of ability and commitment to do well, that don’t pay much over minimum wage. Eg being a carer for people with special needs. Lots of people make a choice to do work like that because it’s important and it needs doing. Should they all aspire to do something else so try get paid more?

    peterfile
    Member

    but I do resent people who earn plenty ad endlessly moan on about how skint they are

    I work with a single mum who earns somewhere between £90k – £110k. No childcare costs thanks to nice parents who live next to her kid’s school.

    She moans constantly about how hard it is financially to be own your own and how hard it is to bring up a kid on one salary. She’s absolutely deluded. Worst of it is, she has long “we’re all in the same boat” conversations with a couple of other single parents in the office, both of whom earn less than £15k.

    She said to one of the other mums that she really hoped she got bonus this year otherwise she’d be struggling for xmas. Her bonus is more than that woman earns in a year!

    Boils my piss.

    I can understand that £60k is seen as a very good salary/wage, however does anyone struggle to make £25k – I don’t mean through choice, but genuine situation?

    I’m on 17,000. My wife has just managed to get a pay rise to the heady heights of 14,500. Both of us work full time and are constantly applying for new jobs. There just isn’t much around. I have a couple of friends who earn around 100k but I seem to be on one of the higher wages out of people I know (less than my sister who’s a teacher though!)

    I’m 29, university graduate, working in an office. Living the dream.

    scuzz
    Member

    it was a question aimed at the STW demographic.

    Then all this question can hope to achieve is determine whether your views on the STW demographic are correct.

    Take a look at unemployment figures. Take a look at the swathes of young people coming out of university who have been sold the dream of ‘get a degree get a job’. A lot of them are likely better educated than you. A chap I know gave his two daughters the best middle class upbringing imaginable. They were both educated by top universities and exceeded the average throughout the entirety of their academic lives. They do not make 25k between them.

    Consider a Post-doc working now to cure Diabetes at a top 10 university, with a First Class degree and PhD from Oxford. Not much more than 25k.

    Sure, they’re all under 30. And hey, this is anecdotal evidence, but that’s the kind you wanted.

    It took me 6 years after graduation to earn £25k.

    Why? Combination of factors. I went travelling after uni (my choice) for a year. When it came to getting a job, I found that my degree really didn’t count for anything, and that I was still expected to start at the bottom. After a while temping, my first “proper job” out of uni earned me just over £13k, and was customer service in a callcentre.

    I trained to go on the technical helpdesk, since that seemed to pay a bit more, and made it to the dizzy heights of £17k once I got a full time job in IT support, which rose to £20k with an on-call allowance. I was, however, bored out of my mind, and I retrained as a youth worker (again, my choice). I earned about the same doing yoof work as I had in IT support, but there was no job security. I landed a contract managing a youth employment project, and as a manager, my salary went up a bit, but only by a couple of grand. After that contract ended, I went to be a project manager back in the IT world, due to lack of jobs because the Tories cut all the yoof services apart from forced-labour-in-pound-shop programmes. Only then did I break the £25k barrier, 2 years ago.

    Some of it was my choice, admittedly, like travel and retraining, which meant I spent time out of the workforce, so my salary is probably 2 years behind those who graduated when I did and have worked ever since.

    You seem to have to move jobs quite often in order to get higher pay – I have worked in a few places where I was promoted, i.e. given extra responsibility and higher expectations, but didn’t get a salary hike, or if I did, it was minimal, and I was paid less than what someone from outside the company would have got, i.e. less than what they advertised the job externally for. My last two job moves have been for that reason, because I don’t see why I should take on more responsibility and receive little or no reward. Salaries are not rising in line with inflation, I’m not going to say that Mr Panda and I are poor; we are not, with a combined income of around £54k, but we’re in a rent trap and have little spare to save. Still, we aren’t struggling to pay our bills though, so we are grateful for the fact that we don’t have to make any really hard choices, like between food and heating our home. We grumble at times when we can’t afford things we want, but it’s useful to remind ourselves we are much better off than many people who don’t have the skills and experience that we do, in order to earn the kind of wages that allow us to live in relative comfort, and not worry about the next electricity bill or whatever.

    We are also in the fairly fortunate position of not wanting children, so we don’t have to worry about how we would finance a family.

    plyphon
    Member

    however does anyone struggle to make £25k – I don’t mean through choice, but genuine situation?

    Out of maybe 50 people of my (uni) course, all who graduated, a small handful of those even got a job within a few months of graduating.

    Of those who got a job, about 5 of those would be on £20k+ if i’m being optimistic.

    I started at 20 when I graduated, 2 years later on 22.5. Could probably justify 25 if I changed job but my job is safe and enjoyable so until the new year here I remain.

    My Mrs started on £17k. She is now on 19. Desperately looking for a new job but it’s very hard being at the bottom of all the ladders.

    Currently right now, for everyone I know my age bar 1 person, a 60k job looks securely like a dream.

    Luckily, I’m only 23 years old.

    Interesting years ahead, and interesting hearing the opinions of the job market from people who are older than myself.

    gonefishin
    Member

    Currently right now, for everyone I know my age bar 1 person, a 60k job looks securely like a dream.

    Don’t take this the wrong way but it has pretty much always been like this. Unless you did a vocational degree and decided to work in a highly paid industry then this won’t change.

    dragon
    Member

    They were both educated by top universities and exceeded the average throughout the entirety of their academic lives. They do not make 25k between them.

    How long are they out of Uni and what area? Sounds low if experienced, but if new out of Uni then on a par with what I’d expect.

    Consider a Post-doc working now to cure Diabetes at a top 10 university, with a First Class degree and PhD from Oxford. Not much more than 25k.

    Seems unlikely, I’d expect something around the 29k. (Pedant note: You don’t get a PhD for Oxford.)

    What is everyone doing to only earn 17k out of Uni? I mostly know scientists and engineers, and all started on more than that. More likely the 22-24k mark, with some in the low 30k’s.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    More than twice the average UK salary in one of the richest countries on the planet. If that’s not rich, the word has no meaning.

    gonefishin
    Member

    More than twice the average UK salary in one of the richest countries on the planet. If that’s not rich, the word has no meaning.

    Well if you are going to compare it to the rest of the world then you are quite right. Of course by that comparison everyone in the UK is rich.

    As has been said many times, income is a poor way to define relative wealth.

    5thElefant
    Member

    Here’s a simple test. Do you have to work? If you do, you’re not rich.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    Well if you are going to compare it to the rest of the world then you are quite right. Of course by that comparison everyone in the UK is rich.

    As has been said many times, income is a poor way to define relative wealth.

    You seem to have missed that £60k is more than twice the UK median full-time salary. Your comment about defining relative wealth is, I strongly suspect, one only made by people with money.

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