So three people I know – two in their mid-60’s and one early 50’s – have been contacted by their [two different] GPs to have the vaccine within 24 hours.
None of them are in any vulnerable group.

Are the GP’s being assigned x number of vaccine bookings and once they’ve contacted the > 80’s they’re working their way down the age groups if they’ve got spare bookings?
It’s the only thing I can think of.

I’d imagine so, no point wasting vaccines.

Maybe care workers? My 35 year old friend had her’s today.

A colleague of mine is 38 with asthma and has already had one jab from her local GP- we are absolutely not front line in any way and have all been working from home the entire duration

Vaccine in batches of 70 (Iirc) no point letting it go to waste so keep working down the list and offering them until they’re used up. 50 is the magic number for “at risk” anyhow isn’t it?

Maybe care workers?

Most definitely not and no asthma, etc. either.

Anyway, it’s good that this is being done although slightly annoying that my 78 year old MIL and 73 year old BIL (who has a heart condition) are not expecting anything soon.
But I suppose there’s always going to be some practices running at different speeds.

@duggan

Are they in the shielding group on oral steroids? If so they may be in group 4

I have Asthma that requires daily steroid puffer and have been told by my gp im not on priority list, despite being told I’m at higher risk by nhs over past 9 months! Basically there is bugger all consistency.

A colleague of mine is 38 with asthma

That would be a logical target?

If I were a GP or a gatekeeper of vaccines I would be stabbing anyone who comes within arms reach if I had spares after filling the quota of available OAPs and front line staff.

As said above, they have shelf life, so no point letting them go to waste.

EDIT; consistency may well vary, as will supply/surplus but overall, the more people vaccinated, the better.

My sister (52) managed to get vaccinated before our parents (late 70s) but then again brother-in-law is NHS Director running the vaccination programme for that NHS Trust, not what you know but who obviously.

Oh no, I’m not pissy about it at all…

If I were a GP or a gatekeeper of vaccines I would be stabbing anyone who comes within arms reach if I had spares after filling the quota of available OAPs and front line staff.

Probably that.
They have a fiite shelf life, if there’s some spare just get it into whoever can get to the surgery before it goes off.

^^ that’s pretty dodgy…

IN our local arangement, It’s quite clear on the priority list order…
Care/frontline staff and care homes, then over 80…
People are given a ‘cohort number’..

Unless there is CLINICAL information that the 60 and 50 years olds are witholding, there’s no way that they would be ‘next in line’ simlpy due to age.

DrP

Unless there is CLINICAL information that the 60 and 50 years olds are witholding, there’s no way that they would be ‘next in line’ simlpy due to age.

True, but, and I accept I may have imagined this, wasn’t there a story of a surgery manager calling up people on the surgery records and in effect saying “someone hasn’t turned up, there’s a vaccine for you if you can be here 25 minutes”. He/she who answers first and can turn up gets it.
Makes sense to me, if it’s the end of the day and you have some left you may as well use it.

^^ that’s pretty dodgy…

IN our local arangement, It’s quite clear on the priority list order…
Care/frontline staff and care homes, then over 80…
People are given a ‘cohort number’..

Unless there is CLINICAL information that the 60 and 50 years olds are witholding, there’s no way that they would be ‘next in line’ simlpy due to age.

DrP

So if, for example you have a few spares in the fridge, almost out of date, would you chuck them in the biohazard bin or would you use them?

I think that’s the point.

I was discussing this with a friend today.  His parents, both in their late 70s, are scheduled to get it today.  They live in a small town and the GPs have their regular schedule of folks who they are going to do each day but then they have a sort of rapid call list of people they will call at the end of the day if there is any left for whatever reason and those folks have to be there within 25mins.  It would make sense that they were folks much farther down the list rather than those that are already booked in within the next few weeks

Yeah I totally agree that anybody is better than nobody so to speak. I don’t know her details but she says was as surprised as anyone when she got invited for the jab- perhaps it is a good sign though. She does live in a pretty rural area if that makes any difference.

In other news I was amazed when I read that the government said there was no appetite for 24 hour round-the-clock jabs- if I get an invite and its 3.30am I will be there prompt. In fairness I think that has changed now anyway.

So if, for example you have a few spares in the fridge, almost out of date, would you chuck them in the biohazard bin or would you use them?

I think that’s the point.

They wouldn’t get binned, no..
But we have PLENTY of staff in the local NHS/care community on standby for exactly this reason.
Also, I struggle to believe that ALL the people in the higher tiers are unavalable…
But it’s legit to vaccinate people who need it (i.e anyone, basically!) who is there ‘at the right time’ I guess..

DrP

In other news I was amazed when I read that the government said there was no appetite for 24 hour round-the-clock jabs- if I get an invite and its 3.30am I will be there prompt. In fairness I think that has changed now anyway.

Probably appetite from the Patient… likely VERY LITTLE appetite or ability from the vaccinating teams, who are already overstretched and underfunded.

DrP

Also, I struggle to believe that ALL the people in the higher tiers are unavalable

I don’t know, my Nan needs a weeks notice to do anything at all, really struggles with anything that she has to react quickly to. Same with the elderly lady I deliver shopping too, if I say I’ll be there at 2pm and arrive more than 30 mins either side of that she’s seriously flustered.
The chances of calling either of them for a last minute vaccine and expecting them to turn up, ignoring transportation issues, is pretty low.

Are the GP’s being assigned x number of vaccine bookings and once they’ve contacted the > 80’s they’re working their way down the age groups if they’ve got spare bookings?
It’s the only thing I can think of.

Yes.

Exhibit A.

Anybody else been offered the vaccine yet?

With the number of vaccinations being rolled out there’s bound to be some mistakes, seems the most likely explanation here. Some record-keeping thing that suggests they’re a higher cohort than they actually are, something like that.

Duggan
Free Member

In other news I was amazed when I read that the government said there was no appetite for 24 hour round-the-clock jabs-

Funny, I’d noticed facebook polls from a bunch of the usual suspects- Tory papers, fake pressure groups etc- asking about 24 hour jabs. The responses always seem to be massively positive. I assumed it’s all just excuse-preparation “Mr Hancock, you promised X vaccines by today, why have you failed” “Well we would totally have done it except that the public didn’t take up the 24 hour slots we offered/GPs refused to provide the 24 hour service that the public deserves/delete as appropriate.

Also, I struggle to believe that ALL the people in the higher tiers are unavalable

I think there’s sometimes a lack of understanding how hard it can be for the over 70s to get to a certain location at a certain time. If they can’t drive or walk, buses unreliable, taxi too expensive, friends or family unable to offer a lift at the right time.

Dad (82) made an appointment last Tuesday for next Wednesday. Mum (78) got a call today and managed to get a slot at the same time, somehow. It’s not somewhere they want to get to by car (soon giving up driving I hope). Bus timetable doesn’t fit in, they refused my offer to try and get a couple of hours off work to take them, so they are looking to get a taxi.

In other news I was amazed when I read that the government said there was no appetite for 24 hour round-the-clock jabs- if I get an invite and its 3.30am I will be there prompt. In fairness I think that has changed now anyway.

You’ve been played beautifully by the No 10 PR guys. Imagine the meeting:

VaccineTeam: “We think we can get the vaccine out to everyone 3-4 weeks quicker if we could open the hubs 24hrs a day”
CommsTeam: “A lot of the public will tear us to pieces is we invite old auny Mable to get a jag at 2 am – the press will have field day”
£7grandADayConsultant: “Tell them we don’t think the public want that, they’ll shout all over Twitter about how they do and then we role it saying its what the people asked for”.

Now lets pause and think for a moment. If we have enough vaccine and enough staff to vaccinate X people 24 hours a day, why can we not just open twice as many vaccine centres for 12 hours a day…

My sister (52) managed to get vaccinated before our parents (late 70s) but then again brother-in-law is NHS Director running the vaccination programme for that NHS Trust, not what you know but who obviously.

Oh no, I’m not pissy about it at all…

If I were the nhs director in charge of delivering the vaccine for a trust, I too would vaccinate my household to ensure I can continue to be the nhs directors in charge of delivering the vaccine. Seems prudent!

There will be a lot of vaccines going spare in areas where the clinics we’re abandoned yesterday due to Snow

The Pfizer vaccine has a limited shelf life so might as well use it

If I were the nhs director in charge of delivering the vaccine for a trust, I too would vaccinate my household to ensure I can continue to be the nhs directors in charge of delivering the vaccine. Seems prudent!

See also John Gummer’s daughter and the hamburger
I think it’s safe. Me and my family have had it, money where my mouth is. Therefore you can believe me when I say it’s safe. Come and have yours

GP here. Not read all the responses.
Spent yesterday morning vaccinating. Booked in for a session next week.
It’s to prevent it going to waste. I gave a few extras yesterday to people who had come along with their relatives. Only to over 65s though. Others may have been more lenient depending on how many spare they had.
Today we were asked to find over 70s for appointments this afternoon as they hadn’t been filled. That would be because they had been cancelled three days ago when nhs England basically banned anyone from giving a second jab. They had been booked three weeks ago but then had to be cancelled and rebooked in very little time. Weather has made it harder to get old folk out too.
It’s purely due to the specific characteristics of the Pfizer vaccine that make it particularly hard to get to the people who need it.
I visited a 90 year old housebound lady today. She asked when she would get her jab. The answer at the moment is never as she isn’t a care home resident and can’t make it to even the nearest designation vaccine site, 8 miles away or so. She’s not even in our list to call as she is coded in the system as housebound.
The Oxford vaccine should change that but it’s currently bound by the same rules as the Pfizer one so I’m not sure how we are going to get round that. The powers that be need to authorise for use in every gp surgery and pharmacy, and on home visits, then we can just give it like we do flu jabs every year.

A local Doctors surgery had 11 doses spare one day last week, – 11 no-shows after being contacted in the previous 3 days, what is it with people?
Anyway, they just went alphabeticly through their patient list until they had 11 people who could get there within 30 minutes to use the doses up.

They are not necessarily no shows. From a vial they recommend 5 doses but it can do up to 6 so there can be some left from that. If they’ve already contacted some the day before for short notice but still have a few they will open them up to others.

i’ll also add.

Those who turn up and when checked about suitability then announce something they didn’t on the phone, those turning up with a Pyrex or other symptoms and some who missed the strict time slot due to no fault of their own. 11 is pretty good.

My dad 80+ hasn’t heard anything about an appointment in fact the surgery hasn’t had any of the vaccine yet. Galling when 40yos are getting it 10 miles away.

We’ve had the same situation as Docrobster up there. we’ve been scratching around this afternoon finding people to stick. We were thinking of just grabbing folk off the street at one point (only slightly joking)

They are not necessarily no shows

Nope, these were no shows. Hannage Brook Medical Centre if you want to see their post on FB. Jan 8th.

@Goldfish24 You would think that but sister is retired so is following lockdown rules and BiL works from home. I guarantee if it had been offered to either set of parents they would have got there

In other news I was amazed when I read that the government said there was no appetite for 24 hour round-the-clock jabs

Either the government are mistaken, or else the famed and oft-boasted Dunkirk Spirit™ would also appear to have a finite shelf-life? Unless, maybe, it was all used up during last year’s ‘lockdown’? Remember, when the poor furloughed masses had no choice but to travel hundreds of miles from home by cars and vans in order to evacuate their bowels into fast-food cartons on the beaches of the South Coast? What a strange little island of spoiling and selfish arses we are turning out to be.

Round the clock jabs has many issues that doubling the capacity for 12 hours a day doesn’t.

The current priority groups are the ones who will find it hardest outside normal hours.

As said above, double the centres not open for longer

In theory it shouldn’t happen – however I know of one PCN that’s hasn’t played by the rules, and because things have been rolled out that quickly proper controls are not in place.

No one other than cohorts 1-4 should be being vaccinated at the minute, although the number of frontline nhs and social care staff group is growing rather larger than I first thought it might be 🤔

The answer at the moment is never as she isn’t a care home resident and can’t make it to even the nearest designation vaccine site, 8 miles away or so. She’s not even in our list to call as she is coded in the system as housebound.

That is not the case, housebound patients do need to be done and are in fact a priority group. Our PCN teams that have been doing care homes are doing housebound next.

Re 24hrs – elderly don’t want to come in the dark (we are a geographically spread, remote region), we couldn’t staff 24hrs (which doesn’t look good for the politicians)

My Dad is in his 80’s and still hasn’t been called, my Mum late 70’s, both have shielding criteria but neither been called yet

As said above, double the centres not open for longer

Double the centres has problems such as more storage needed, more IT, suitable venues that can facilitate and more staff that’s before you look at the cost. Opening longer staff can be spread our across shifts rather than all working a similar shift. It’s far easier to extend hours than to open another venue.

It is down to logistics and not wasting. You have a load of vaccines but don’t have a queue of booked up people so sod the exact categories and just get through them.

My wife (55, NHS but very, very far from frontline and working at home) had hers last Monday as a centre had opened but was not organised well so not many people were asked to turn up. Rest of the day they relied on word of mouth within NHS and there was then a 2 hour queue for the whole day.

The fact they all had 2 hours to spare during the working day probably suggests not many of them were critical frontline people but they have had their vaccine and are out of the way now for a few months.

Double the centres has problems such as more storage needed, more IT, suitable venues that can facilitate and more staff that’s before you look at the cost. Opening longer staff can be spread our across shifts rather than all working a similar shift. It’s far easier to extend hours than to open another venue.

Exactly, combine with the fact of how many people would actually turn up between 22:00 and 07:00 anyway. Open them from 07:00 to 22:00 (same sort of thing as voting times).

It’s far easier to extend hours than to open another venue.

Completely agree – with the limitations of staffing and population who want to be jabbed in the middle of the night.

There are shortages of fridges and IT equipment at the minute.

What is most disappointing is that the type of private venues that could help solve a national pandemic are wanting to charge a fortune for using their sites. It’s the same old that money appears to be more important than human life.

There is one company we are talking to though that has just been a large new head office, and they have offered space for free. This kind of act needs applauding where as other companies should be ashamed.

A local Doctors surgery had 11 doses spare one day last week, – 11 no-shows after being contacted in the previous 3 days, what is it with people?
Anyway, they just went alphabeticly through their patient list until they had 11 people who could get there within 30 minutes to use the doses up.

Snap! We had 11 DNAs yesterday. No wasted doses, though.