So, how are we on tubes vs tubeless these days…

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  • So, how are we on tubes vs tubeless these days…
  • ahwiles
    Member

    Kryton57 – Member

    I think you have the wrong forum…

    you mean this isn’t doggingtrackworld ?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    I’d never go back to tubes. It made such a huge difference on the Patriot with its 2.3″ tyres that I can’t imagine struggling around with the higher rolling resistance.

    I’ve only ever had one suspected burp in about 2009 ish – finished an XC race and discovered I had a pretty soft tyre. Only had one puncture that required a tube (it was the second big puncture in a few hundred yards, glass on cyclepath I think) and that was no worse than changing a tube normally.

    Seems like modern tyres are better designed for it too – Maxxis ignitors have lovely stiff sidewalls which allow me to go down to 20-25psi fine. Sealed immediately too.

    I use Stans strips and Stans sealant, and non tubeless tyres. However I don’t use my trailrakers any more since I was warned not to. One bike has Stans rims, these will go up with a track pump; one uses Mavic 317s and needs CO2; the Patriot has Sunn Singletrack rims that also need CO2.

    funkhouser
    Member

    im sticking to tubes. also naff all wrong with my V brakes, rigid seatpost, narrow bars, long stem and 26″ wheels thankyou very much.

    creamegg
    Member

    tubeless every time. Cant see a downside (based on my experience). I’m finding it cheaper, less faff, zero punctures (over 2.5 yrs or more I cant remember). Never had issues setting tubeless up, regardless of proper kit or ghetto, type of rim or tyre etc. Might have got lucky but it gets the thumbs up from me and now ive converted most of my mates as I was getting bored with constant hanging around for puncture repairs

    PJM1974
    Member

    95% of the time tubeless is ace.

    However there’s a lot of flinty chalk round my way and when you tear the sidewall of your three day old, Β£50 tyres then you start to wonder why sidewalls aren’t thicker to compensate.

    My Spesh Purgatory was the latest victim at the weekend, although I’ve been able to rescue it with some fine fishing line and a needle. Killing two brand new Conti Black Chillis last year was a spectacular low point.

    Unless you use proper UST tyres and rims, I honestly wouldn’t bother.

    That’s a bit of a worry. I’ve been running UST tyres/rims for years with zero problems, but now my new bike has Tubeless ready rims/tyres (Spesh Enduro with Roval Fatties and Spesh tyres). Should I be sticking with the tubes or is it going to work tubeless without dicking? I was presuming it would be okay tubeless, but maybe I’ve been spoilt with UST in the past.

    Tubeless in 5 of the 8 the off road wheels I posess, sealant in the tubes of those that won’t go tubeless. A couple of the tubeless wheels took several rides before they stopped losing pressure over a few days.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    However there’s a lot of flinty chalk round my way and when you tear the sidewall of your three day old, Β£50 tyres then you start to wonder why sidewalls aren’t thicker to compensate.

    They are, on UST tyres, which weigh more (but comparable to a normal tyre and tube. Trouble is that if you tear a sidewall on a normal tyre it still gets wrecked anyway!

    Unless you use proper UST tyres and rims, I honestly wouldn’t bother.

    That’s a bit of a worry. I’ve been running UST tyres/rims for years with zero problems, but now my new bike has Tubeless ready rims/tyres (Spesh Enduro with Roval Fatties and Spesh tyres)[/quote]

    That’s utter bobbins. I had some really early UST Crossmax in 2001 (there was one tyre choice – green Michelin Wildgrippers), then moved to an ‘Eclipse’ conversion to run normal tyres on UST, then did Stan’s with rim strips, then Stan’s/Roval/Light Bicycle without strips, just using tape, and various tyres.

    The latter is the best, the biggest problem at the moment is the moveable feast that is bead seat diameters. A few years ago when there was UST and non-UST it was much easier. You got to learn which brands worked well (Michelin and Schwalbe particularly), and everything was harmonious. Then Tubeless Ready came along, Stan’s made rims slightly bigger, to aid sealing, Schwalbe made tyres slightly smaller, to aid sealing, and you ended up with a bit of a mess of “these really should work together, but don’t, whilst the old ‘incompatible’ combination worked flawlessly”.

    Still, things seem to have settled back down again now, most high end tyres are tubeless ready, and work very well on virtually any rim with a turn or three of Gorilla tape.

    Premier Icon Yak
    Subscriber

    i really will consider tubeless ready rims the next time i’ve got Β£300 lying around that i can spare for new wheels.

    All I meant was that imo the conversions didn’t work that well and at the point of new wheels, I chose tubeless ready rims so there was only a small extra cost over choosing a non-tubeless ready rim. Just look at the superstar website and there are lots of reasonably priced tubeless ready wheelsets, alongside lots of non-tubeless ready reasonably priced wheelsets.

    If I was still running non-tubeless ready rims, I would run tubes.

    Premier Icon andybrad
    Subscriber

    its good. its a worry for the first few months as your worried about getting stuck. then you see all the other folks running tubes. ive ended up giving most of my tubes away to folkes that have flatted 2+ times on rides!

    hilldodger
    Member

    It’s just not as satisfying to chuck a pot of tyre-jizz into the branches of a trail side tree, so will stick with tubes

    I’ve always found punctures easy to deal with on tubeless tyres with the Panaracer style needle/rubber plug system. Don’t even bother running sealant in UST tyres for that reason. Anyone else use that system?

    That’s utter bobbins.

    Good, so I will go tubeless in that case. Definitely prefer it to tubes.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    I’ve always found punctures easy to deal with on tubeless tyres with the Panaracer style needle/rubber plug system. Don’t even bother running sealant in UST tyres for that reason. Anyone else use that system?

    I’ve not used the little ‘worm’ puncture repairs for years, but yes, they are good. Again, used to be the only option, other than tube repair patches and a suitable supplementary adhesive!

    That said I’d far rather run a tubeless ready tyre with sealant, than a UST one without. Lighter and even less puncture prone.

    Cool, so what is the sealant of choice these days? I’ll be running Spesh Butcher/Slaughter combo.

    Knowing your history of decision making Kryton I would expect this thread to last for a few years . First you need to decide whether to go tubeless or not , then we will have a what sealant debate followed by a what valves debate followed by a what tyre debate followed by a what pressure should I run them at debate followed by a I’ve decided to stick with tubes thread by which time the MTB world will be dominated by tubular set ups . πŸ˜†

    Premier Icon Yak
    Subscriber

    I use Stans and it works fine, but have no idea if other sealants are better or worse.
    I’ve not added glitter though, so don’t know if there is better big-hole performance with glitter.

    Premier Icon beej
    Subscriber

    Tubeless road and MTB.

    Noticed my front on the road bike was a little soft the morning after a wet ride on crappy lanes. Pulled three flints out of it, one went “psssst” for a bit then sealed. 100% sure I’d have been fighting tubes in the rain without the sealant.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    Ramsey Neil – Member
    Knowing your history of decision making Kryton I would expect this thread to last for a few years . First you need to decide whether to go tubeless or not , then we will have a what sealant debate followed by a what valves debate followed by a what tyre debate followed by a what pressure should I run them at debate followed by a I’ve decided to stick with tubes thread by which time the MTB world will be dominated by tubular set ups .

    πŸ˜€

    I’ll have you know I’m already tubeless. I’ve been fighting with NN TLR’s on one of the bikes though, and I’m currently deciding whether the new 29er should go tubless or not bother, as I rode it with tubes yesterday and it was most excellent. Riding in forest singletrack I definately rate the ” no puntures” issue.

    But the answer is that I guess I’ve just had a bad experience with those tyres so will persevere and go tubeless on the 29er this weekend…

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    Cool, so what is the sealant of choice these days? I’ll be running Spesh Butcher/Slaughter combo.

    Stan’s, although I believe a number of people rate Joe’s as cheaper.

    PJM1974
    Member

    Stans or Joes.

    Don’t bother with Caffelatex as it stains everything and turns to rubber within a few days. The Fenwicks stuff is absolutely awful too and stubbornly refuses to plug all but the smallest of holes.

    The Specialized stuff isn’t bad at a pinch.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    Whats the score on adding glitter? Worth bothering?

    rooster42
    Member

    I still run tubeless, but only because I can get away with lighter tyres, but not as good as running Minion Dual Ply’s and tubes. I had zero punctures for 2 years with the Dual Ply’s but my Tubeless set up punctures once every 3 months or so and they have never resealed!!!! I ALWAYS have to put a new DH heavy tube in to get me home. Running DT Swiss TR rims, Maxis Minion TR tyres and Stans fluid.

    Other problems
    1) The sealant vanishes after 3 months, where does it go, it beats me?
    2) Rear tyre won’t hold pressure, needs pumping up before each ride.
    3) Rear rim gets damaged more.
    4) Valves get gummed up.

    On the plus side, they do grip like shit to a blanket compared to when they have a tube in and I can run SP tyres without pinch flatting. I’ve never had one burp, it just punctures on a sharp rock tearing the tyre or once when the tyre was a bit soft the rim went through it and in effect pinch flatted the tyre, WTF!!!

    Wonder if pro-core will be any better πŸ™‚

    Premier Icon Yak
    Subscriber

    I will try the glitter thing at the next top up. Might have made the difference to the tyre slash at the last xc rampage, as that one nearly sealed with the stans alone.

    So what glitter for stans? πŸ˜‰

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    Whats the score on adding glitter? Worth bothering?[/quote

    No.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    1) The sealant vanishes after 3 months, where does it go, it beats me?
    2) Rear tyre won’t hold pressure, needs pumping up before each ride.

    That’s thin sidewalls for you. The latex is mostly water so it evaporates out of the carcass if there isn’t much rubber on the inside. Light tyres tend to be mostly canvas with only a little rubber and are hence quite porous and you see bubbles coming out all over as you seal. These need a ride or two to become stable.

    Again, the ignitors have more rubber and consequently were airtight immediately, and have stayed up.

    PJM1974
    Member

    Whats the score on adding glitter? Worth bothering?

    Depends if you want to look all pretty on your ride. If you accessorise with a sequinned Camelbak and some sparkly shoes then you’d absolutely pull it off.

    peepingtom
    Member

    Tubeless , even the ghetto way is a no brainer .Nowt worse then a tiny thorn ruining a ride .

    Stan’s, although I believe a number of people rate Joe’s as cheaper.

    Good old Stan’s it is then (sans glitter!) thanks. I’ll try to get it done this weekend and be back running tubeless again. I’ll be sure to whinge if it doesn’t work out πŸ˜‰

    I will still carry a Panaracer puncture kit around for peace of mind. I’ve plugged some pretty big holes with those successfully. Saves all the hassle of needing to fit an emergency tube if the sealant fails to seal a large puncture.

    Premier Icon Squirrel
    Subscriber

    I’m really not sure about tubeless. I converted about 18 months ago as I had had enough of the thorn punctures (averaging about one every other ride, and I ride almost every day). I then had a puncture-free year, which was ace, but since then I have had a good few rides terminated prematurely by tyres ripped by flints badly enough that even a whole can of anchovies won’t fix them. I don’t know why, still riding in the same places (Chilterns) and with the same (but renewed) Bonty Mud tyres. I suppose the moral of the story, for me anyway, is that you get less punctures with tubeless but, when you do get them, they can be terminal. And yes, I know I could put a tube in to get me home, but when it’s cold, raining, getting dark, the tyre is generously coated in mud and excrement and the inside of it is swimming in latex and infested with old thorns I would rather walk πŸ‘Ώ

    eddiebaby
    Member

    Loving tubeless (Hans Dampfson ZTR Crests) with no issues to date. Took about 40 minutes for the first tyre whilst I learnt about how much soapy water to use and how much pressure to get it to pop. The second tyre took 5 minutes.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    And yes, I know I could put a tube in to get me home, but when it’s cold, raining, getting dark, the tyre is generously coated in mud and excrement and the inside of it is swimming in latex and infested with old thorns I would rather walk

    Apart from the latex, which doesn’t really change anything, how is that scenario different with tubes? You cut a tyre that badly you still get a flat. I’m not aware that tubes change the weather or trail conditions!?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    For the record, ZTR Olympics, Stans rim strips and Schwalbe tyres fo on without soap, and with a simple track pump. They stay up too, for bout 6 months

    rooster42
    Member

    eddiebaby – Member
    Took about 40 minutes for the first tyre whilst I learnt about how much soapy water to use and how much pressure to get it to pop. The second tyre took 5 minutes.

    I find neat Fairy Liquid works very well, so well in fact you don’t need sealant, if you’re feeling lucky πŸ™‚

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    For the record, ZTR Olympics, Stans rim strips and Schwalbe tyres fo on without soap, and with a simple track pump. They stay up too, for bout 6 months

    When I used Olympics and rim strips my experience was similar. I came to the conclusion that the much lauded ‘rim well’ is actually a barrier to inflation, as a tight tyre won’t ‘pop’ out of it without sufficient air flow, and a baggy tyre is too loose in the well, so air comes out under the beads. I needed several turns of tape on my LB rims to seal, I bought some 10mm wide foam draught excluder strip, I reckon if I put that in the well, then a turn of tape, tyres will go on/up more easily.

    Premier Icon Squirrel
    Subscriber

    njee20 – Member
    And yes, I know I could put a tube in to get me home, but when it’s cold, raining, getting dark, the tyre is generously coated in mud and excrement and the inside of it is swimming in latex and infested with old thorns I would rather walk

    Apart from the latex, which doesn’t really change anything, how is that scenario different with tubes? You cut a tyre that badly you still get a flat. I’m not aware that tubes change the weather or trail conditions!?

    Well you have a whole load of thorns to prise out before you can install the tube. And you have to take the valve out πŸ˜†

    Premier Icon jekkyl
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    Just thinkinng on it…. is there any reason why injecting sealant into a tube wouldn’t work just as well?

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    I’d not do tubeless without proper rims (or really good rim strips like the DT rim-specific ones), tried that, it never really worked right for me. But with proper TLR or UST rims, I’m always tubeless. Since I stopped using shitey Nobby Nics I think I’ve had one tubeless flat in about 3 years, and that was totally my fault.

    Occasionally it can be a faff- getting my Der Baron dh tyre on is always a fight- but generally not. And faff in the garage with a beer and some tunes on is better than faff up a hill in the rain

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    Just thinkinng on it…. is there any reason why injecting sealant into a tube wouldn’t work just as well?

    Nope, I’ve done it, and in tubs. There are plenty of products marketed for just that purpose. Weirdly, and I don’t know why, tube sealants are much thicker and more viscous than the watery consistency of most (good) tyre sealants.

    But you’re still adding the weight of the tube to the system, and you’re just as likely to pinch flat, which will overcome most sealants.

    Do you run the Der Baron tubeless, NW?

    Just got some shiny new DH wheels, they’re tubed for now, but they’re tubeless compatible. Am tempted.

    Will need a new rear tyre though, my Kaiser Projekt is deformed, as only Conti tyres do.

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