Viewing 24 posts - 161 through 184 (of 184 total)
  • So, £168,000 to get my kids through college. What to do?
  • bristolbiker
    Free Member

    On the Engineer debate…. At work I design something in Inventor, export the solid models to cad/cam software,then create the toolpaths and then the code which is then sent to the cnc machines. I then go and set the machines machine the componet then fit all the parts together.
    As I only have a city and guilds qualification does this make me not a engineer?

    IMO – you are doing doing the leg work of an engineering technician – which is in short supply in certain areas. This is problem – engineering is the bit between design and implementation/manufacture. Are you determining loads, doing calculations for stress/fatigue and comparing against material allowables, selecting appropriate and cost effective manufacturing processes, sizing sections/welds/radii appropriately and staying within the relevant BS/ISO/Eurocode? In what you’ve described above, all of that is missing/done by someone else, no? Don’t get me wrong, all of what you’ve described are valuable (and of value) skills that I don’t have – I can do all the calcs/write all the reports in the world, but if there is no-one to go to actually cut some metal then it’s useless.

    This is really off-topic and probably the subject of another incendiary thread 😉 Go to Germany and you have to do a 7 year degree to be called an “engineer”.

    xiphon
    Free Member

    The Germans might be great Engineers, but their Siemens software is the largest thorn in my side right now (from an IT admin point of view).

    Step5, Step7, etc..

    legspin
    Free Member

    Bristolbiker, customer(internal) comes to me tells me that they want a gizmo to do xy and z, I do everything execpt apply for the patent.

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...
    Latest Singletrack Videos
    bristolbiker
    Free Member

    My point was that in Germany and France it caries a different social meaning to what it does/has become here.

    bristolbiker
    Free Member

    Legspin – then you’re original post missed out a whole hill of other stuff you must being doing to perform due diligence on the design you are going to sign off and supply, so fair enough.

    bazzer
    Free Member

    Bristolbiker, customer(internal) comes to me tells me that they want a gizmo to do xy and z, I do everything execpt apply for the patent.

    But do you go through the processes bristolbiker describes or do you wing it ? do you and could you justify the design decisions you make with sold engineering principles ? That is the difference between a technician and an Engineer.

    Bazzer

    backhander
    Free Member

    1 a person whose job involves designing and building engines, machines, roads, bridges, etc.
    see also chemical engineer, civil engineer, electrical engineer, lighting engineer, mechanical engineer, software engineer, sound engineer
    2 a person who is trained to repair machines and electrical equipment
    They’re sending an engineer to fix the phone.
    3 a person whose job is to control and repair engines, especially on a ship or an aircraft
    a flight engineer
    the chief engineer on a cruise liner
    4 (North American English) (British English engine driver) a person whose job is driving a railway/railroad engine
    5 a soldier trained to design and build military structures

    There you go, from the oxford english dictionary. You do not have to be sat at a PC all day to be an engineer, this chartership talk is nonsense. The above is the only actual FACT about this matter on the whole thread. Engineer is a job title not a status.

    bristolbiker
    Free Member

    Engineer is a job title not a status.

    Indeed, though incorrectly applied in some cases. ‘Doctor’ is another case in point, though perhaps with the perception the otherway around.

    The above is the only actual FACT about this matter on the whole thread.

    I would disagree, and also suggest that that statement, by implication is the nub of the problem, via the OED back to the IMechE et al, as discussed some pages ago.

    bazzer
    Free Member

    There you go, from the oxford english dictionary. You do not have to be sat at a PC all day to be an engineer, this chartership talk is nonsense. The above is the only actual FACT about this matter on the whole thread. Engineer is a job title not a status.

    Totaly agree with but it still involves doing some engineering, else I could call my self a tree surgeon even though I go no where near a tree.

    I am not so precious at all about the whole charted thing, I watched someone who was totally incompetent sail through the chartering process with the IEEE.

    If for instance you were designing a seat stay for a bike, if you could do the calcs to ensure it was stiff enough and strong enough then you are an engineer. If you know what will be strong and stiff enough because someone told you or you just copy something else, your not.

    Simple 🙂

    bristolbiker
    Free Member

    Bazzer – if you missed it, I appear to have vented on the whole chartered thing a few pages ago. Feel much better for it too 😉

    backhander
    Free Member

    Yes however “engineering” is not purely design. It’s many things and it is a shame that some universties have the idea that it is only design. I’ve worked for the largest global building services consultancy and you’d be shocked at the level of understanding of systems by some of the chartered and hugely qualified staff. Note the word understanding and not knowledge. As these people have never actually wired in a circuit, looked under the cover of a boiler or gassed up a chiller they do not fully understand how they work and how would be best designed, installed or used. IMO.
    If a design was too problematic or difficult, it would go out as “design and build” and the contractors (mainly non degree, non chartered) would design it.
    I appreciate that my area of engineering is quite specific and may not apply to different fields and that the term engineer has become overused (environmental engineer for cleaner etc) but all this “you’re not an engineer you’re a technician” is tripe. IMO.

    bazzer
    Free Member

    @ bristolbiker

    The old Doctors not having a Phd thing !!!

    See I don’t really care what people call me as long as they pay me for my skills.

    I don’t worry about if my neighbours think I am part of a profession or not. If I am honest I don’t think I am its a career/job not a calling 🙂

    I would have thought the industries where professional qualifications are important is mainly down to getting someone to insure you 🙂

    But that said me trimming my hedges does not make me a tree surgeon 🙂

    bazzer
    Free Member

    you’d be shocked at the level of understanding of systems by some of the chartered and hugely qualified staff

    Believe me I wouldn’t 🙂

    One of the best software “Engineers” I know does not have a degree. I also know some shocking ones with Phd’s 🙂

    engineer you’re a technician

    I don’t think it really matters, I would take a 100K software technician job over a 50K software engineer one 🙂

    As you have correctly pointed out there is no legal meaning to the term engineer in this country.

    headfirst
    Free Member

    Ok, so I’ve only read the first page of posts so this might have been said already…

    As a secondary school teacher i know that basically schools receive funding based on the number of students they have, multiplied by a per capita rate. Those rates very roughly are:
    £1k per student in years 7 to 11 (ie.up to the end of GCSEs)
    £3k per Sixth form student

    Staff to student ratios are much lower in schools than they are at Universities, so why on earth do Uni’s need so much more cash? Its all a bloody big con. 👿

    bazzer
    Free Member

    Staff to student ratios are much lower in schools than they are at Universities, so why on earth do Uni’s need so much more cash?

    Do you have facilities for studying and research into Nano Science at your school ?

    Bazzer

    molgrips
    Free Member

    So can I be a Software Engineer then?

    Headfirst – not many secondary schools need things like particle accelerators, scanning tunnelling microscopes, clean rooms etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

    bazzer
    Free Member

    So can I be a Software Engineer then?

    Well you can call yourself one and no one will arrest you 🙂

    Can you get a job as one will depend on if you can get an interview and then convince people you can do the job 🙂

    Edited to add, you probably would not be the worst person I have interviewed 🙂

    bristolbiker
    Free Member

    Yes however “engineering” is not purely design

    I’d go further and say as an engineer you need a sound understanding of design…. but creating an object which fits in the space envelope, meets the aesthetic and functional brief etc is the role of the designer – the role of the engineer is to confirm that the object is fit for purpose. Repeat that loop as necessary until a satisfactory solution pops out the bottom. I accept the lines in many sectors are blurred as one or other role has sufficient knowledge to do both job at once at the same time.

    headfirst
    Free Member

    Headfirst – not many secondary schools need things like particle accelerators, scanning tunnelling microscopes, clean rooms etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

    Surely they’ve paid for them by now? 😉

    I see your point, but isn’t a fair bit of high-end scientific research funded through other means rather tuition fees? ie. direct govt research grants or funding by private business?

    At my school we’ve got 750 students in Years 7-11 and 500 in the sixth form. We’ve got roughly 100 FTE teaching staff. How do uni numbers compare when factoring in funding too? I can see how uni’s are more expensive to run than schools but not too the magnitude that the difference in funding suggests.

    backhander
    Free Member

    I’d go further and say as an engineer you need a sound understanding of design

    Absolutely.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Well they get funding from govt agencies, sometimes from industry, but I would imagine a lot of it has to come from their own pockets. After all if you are awarding research grants, and one is for £15k for a postdoc for a year, and the other is £15k plus £1.5m for a particle accelerator, which one would you be most likely to approve? 🙂

    I can see how uni’s are more expensive to run than schools but not too the magnitude that the difference in funding suggests

    So why are they running out of money then? It’s not going on champagne lunches that’s for sure 🙂

    bazzer
    Free Member

    I can see how uni’s are more expensive to run than schools but not too the magnitude that the difference in funding suggests.

    Well they actually allow people to do science etc instead of just talking about it. The consumables cost for some courses is going to be way higher than anything in a school. Where as most of the cost of running a school is in wages, I suspect a university has significant other costs.

    The school where my wifes works does not allow teachers to do photo copying FFS !!!

    LHS
    Free Member

    I suspect a university has significant other costs.

    Agree, however Universitys are getting more and more funding from companies looking to get research work done for them. The funding for this is usually considerable and definitly subsidises a lot of departments.

    Surf-Mat
    Free Member

    The Mat Eng department at my Uni, Swansea, got huge amounts of money from industry as it had loads of specialist kit. All the lecturers had M5s and other flashy cars – some were making a killing from it all!

Viewing 24 posts - 161 through 184 (of 184 total)

The topic ‘So, £168,000 to get my kids through college. What to do?’ is closed to new replies.