I could understand and forgive a parent that loses it in a running-towards-the-road type situation and gives a child a smack out of desperation. It’s the pre-meditated administering of physical violence that I find sinister and creepy.

I was smacked once or twice very lightly, but the sheer terror of the threat of it did rule our lives. Terror is not good for relationships Imo.

I believe that kids don’t want to be bad, usually, so you need to explain why what they are doing is wrong. If they are too young to understand this then they are probably too young to link the smack with the act of wrongdoing. If a kid doesn’t know it’s wrong then how can any punishment work? They will just think you are being mean to them because you are upset. Not good behaviour to teach.

If an older kid deliberately misbehaves to piss you off or despite clear rules that they understand, then yes punishment is appropriate. But not violence IMO. You risk teaching kids that violence solves problems; and if you are angry at the time then they may learn that violence is an appropriate way of expressing anger.

As for the danger situation, tone of voice and a serious talking to should work. If not, maybe you issue too many bollockings and your kid tunes them out?

Going back a page and off topic. I think grammar schools are a massive waste of resources, ethically corrupt and would like my son to move into adulthood having a comprehensive understanding of society.

I wish we had them where we live, my son would have received the education he deserves, rather than having his lessons disrupted by morons who think learning is irrelevan.

there’s more effective ways to discipline a child

Do explain.

@ matther01 – if I punched an adult I’d most likely knock loose teeth and/or break their nose or jaw if they had their mouth open.

If I smack the back of my sons hand the issue is gone in a few minutes.

Are you a Cassandra in real life?

Plus an adult has wisdom, learned experience about crossing roads or electrical items. Comparing the naivety and danger of a child to an adult with ‘you cant smack an adult is very basic and sensational reasoning/faux and wrong.

I dont want to live in a society that would pander to such blanket policies.

Depends how good a parent you are doesnt it?!

If you can control your kids without the need for a smack then fair play. If you need to give them a smack to stop then acting up then crack on.

However, there seems to be some parents who don’t agree with smacking, yet their kids act like complete ****. If you can’t discipline your kids without smacking, then stop being a bad parent and give them a wallop round the back of legs quickly.

so you think a bad parent will instantly become a good one , and the kids well behaved, just because they have started hitting their kids 😕

Its odd apparently only the most vulnerable and smallest in society are fair game to hit and only if they are yours and its your job to protect them from harm

Violence [ or physical force if you prefer] is only ever justified to protect yourself not to harm others. I assume those who smack their kids dont tell their kids to smack other kids

anagallis_arvensis – Member

Going back a page and off topic. I think grammar schools are a massive waste of resources, ethically corrupt and would like my son to move into adulthood having a comprehensive understanding of society.

I presume you are going to do what most senior labour front benchers do in respect of their own children’s education

I thought grammar schools got the same per pupil funding as other schools including the pupil premium for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds?

Going back a page and off topic. I think grammar schools are a massive waste of resources, ethically corrupt and would like my son to move into adulthood having a comprehensive understanding of society.

So spending loads on teaching assistants to try and help those who don’t want to be helped at times is a better way of spending money. It’s no wonder this country is slipping in the world wide education tables, we spend more money teaching the unteachables and remove the funding for the gifted and talented.

Just in case there is any doubt yes I would bring back the cane in schools and the stocks in the market places as asbos and asking nicely is not working.

@ hora hitting someone and losing teeth is more like abh i would have thought. Spitting on someone is still classed as assault even though there is no physical contact.

Wasnt so long ago that domestic violence was deemed acceptable in the eyes if the law. Shouldnt the law protect those who cannot protect themselves, especially if they dont have the cognetive ability to understand what they are doing?

I have 4 kids and have never resorted to smacking as its more about finding what makes them tick and guiding them about choices and ramifications rather than indoctrinacting them on how to act/behave through the use of physical harm and fear…but thats how i parent and it isnt for everyone.

If you can’t discipline your kids without smacking, then stop being a bad parent and give them a wallop round the back of legs quickly.

Hah.. If you can’t discipline your kids without force then you won’t be able to discipline them with it. It’s not a magic thing that immediately makes your kids respect you. Fear, maybe, probably..but that’s not the same thing at all.

its more about finding what makes them tick and guiding them about choices and ramifications rather than indoctrinacting them on how to act/behave through the use of physical harm and fear…

This guy knows what he is doing.

Oh I also received the cane. I guess Im a statistical anomoly.

For me I firmly believe those that should be the focus of violence towards children will also have other issues; known to the Police already, drink problem etc etc.

A well adjusted bloke would only resort to minor chastisement as a rare-used aspect of parenting. But again there are those who struggle to see life isnt black and white and aim to force their ideals onto all.

No ta

I thought grammar schools got the same per pupil funding as other schools including the pupil premium for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds?

yes but you have to build another school too. Even that muppet in charge of ofsted thinks they are shite. But thats an argument for another day.

The naughty step is a great invention but one day my (then 3yr old) eldest refused to go on it.
What are the options do I physically restrain him on the step, let him get away with the misdemeanor or threaten him with a smack.
I said he had a choice the step or a smack, he chose the smack.
So now do I hit him or let him off?

anagallis_arvensis – Member
Even that muppet in charge of ofsted thinks they are shite.

Well that’s not quite what he said!!!!

Re the actual topic, it’s another pointless headline. Even headline grabber admitted it was merely a thought and aspiration that had no means of enforcing. Still if officials really know best…….

Perhaps there is an easy solution here: if you cannot draw the distinction as an adult between smacking, hitting and violence then avoid any form of physical punishment.

If you can, then use your discretion as an adult and loving (deliberate choice of word) parent to use/not use as you see fit. Simple really.

I don’t like the naughty step, we never used it. We just show displeasure to varying degrees and give bollockings where they really try it on. Fortunately our kids are empathetic enough (or we trained them well enough) for this to work. They want to be good, and they try. They fail sometimes just like we do, and they understand that.

We also choose our battles. We don’t start rows over stuff that’s not worth it, we save it for when it is. We try and figure out why they’ve done something. Mostly it’s because they were so curious they could not help themselves. We also try to focus on the way things “should” be done, because this seems to be important to them.

After all, there is always a good reason why they shouldn’t do something, and it’s important the kids know this. Otherwise how will they ever understand?

Perhaps there is an easy solution here: if you cannot draw the distinction as an adult between smacking, hitting and violence then avoid any form of physical punishment.

If you can, then use your discretion as an adult and loving (deliberate choice of word) parent to use/not use as you see fit. Simple really.

The most patronising comment on the thread so far.

Have a look throughout the animal kingdom as to how off spring are kept in line, do you think you are any better ?

do you think you are any better ?

Yep. Don’t you?

Not really. Just straight forward logic. Clearly if someone cannot draw the line between the three then they should not even be considering any form of physical punishment.

The patronising thing is someone else (I will give her the credit that her role as a step mum gave her sufficient experience here) telling other mature adults that they as incapable of making the distinction. Thats bollocks IMO. Fortunately our legal system is perfectly capable of making the distinction.

molgips, you are AWESOME

Thanks.

Not really.

Yes really. How about if you can tell the difference but don’t want to? Should they go ahead and use it because they can tell the difference.

It is nowhere near as binary as you’d like to have people who you don’t feel know any better than you believe.

The patronising thing is someone else

No. I’m pretty sure it was you.

DD you obviously have different definition of patronising to me! But to be clear, my use of the word “you” above was meant in the impersonal sense (like “one”) not in the direct sense which I admit might sound somewhat patronising. My comment was not an instruction, merely a basis for discussion.

But in answer to your first point/question please refer to my (clear) point ie “if someone cannot draw the line…..”. It should ( 😉 ) be obvious what my answer would be. And the legal framework is in place that supports the same idea. Very clear and also explained clearly in the Beeb story.

Fortunately, the majority of adult are able to draw the line perfectly well, Some may still prefer not to smack (my wife and I), others will be perfectly able to smack within reason and inside the law. But if you feel that we need a child’s tsar to help us then so be it. I don’t.

DD you obviously have different definition of patronising to me!

AFAIK, I’m not the only one.

But if you feel that we need a child’s tsar to help us then so be it.

Now you’re putting words in my mouth. Or do you have a different definition for that too?

Clarity and brevity (the soul of wit after all) for 2014 thm. There’s a resolution for you. No charge.

I’m pretty sure, kids or adults, if you need to use a fist/slap/abuse of any kind then let’s be honest there’s a better way of going about it.

Don’t worry no payment offered or deserved. Hopefully my edit to my last posts helps. If not so be it. Of course not in any way patronising to suggest New Years resolutions for other people!!!

I guess Im a statistical anomoly

So many punchline Hora , so many punchlines

Fortunately our legal system is perfectly capable of making the distinction

I think we are debating whether the law is wrong or right not what the law is. I am still wanting an explanation , moral or otherwise as to why we can hit the most vulnerable and only our own, or , as the Tsar stated it

Because in law you are forbidden from striking another adult, and from physically chastising your pets, but somehow there is a loophole around the fact that you can physically chastise your child. It’s counter-evidential.”

Again why is this OK?

DD you obviously have different definition of patronising to me!

Lots seem to given how often you are accused of it and your constant denials.

Of course not in any way patronising to suggest New Years resolutions for other people!!!

Merely being helpful thm. It’s a bit annoying to be patronised isn’t it?

So the problem here, as ever with this kind of government solution, is that it turns a complex matter into a simple binary situation for the (possibly necessary) sake of convenience. I have known ‘good’ parents smack their children and ‘bad’ parents who don’t smack their kids. Legislation like this is not going to take us to the end goal of ever kid getting the kind of loving, caring but also disciplining parents they deserve.

And for the record… Yes was smacked as a child, infrequently. No don’t smack my kid. Live in a country where smacking is banned (no idea how that is enforced). Lucky enough that I have a kid / have raised a kid that responds well to other methods of discipline.

Thanks for the help. Not annoying merely funny.

The very idea of having a “debate” about this subject on this forum fills me with dread, why is that?

Generally, I’m not in agreement with it, but it’s another tool in the patenting box, if somewhat crude and limited in use. Smacked both of my kids once each, at age 4 or 5 when they went through their ‘hitting stage’. Acton of last resort after patiently ignoring, time out corner and explanation. Thought long and hard before doing it and waiting for the right incident to arise. Felt guilty as hell afterwards, but asking them if they liked it and whether they think the person they hit liked it managed to turn on the empathy switch in both of them.

I was smacked more often than that as a kid, and it didn’t really do me any harm. Never taught me much either though.

Surely the whole disagreement could be resolved with a punchup?

So what do all you fabulous parents do when your child sh*ts on the naughty step?

I’m in the ‘never did me any harm’ camp, my two girls now 17 and 20 have the same views too.

Chinese burns were the best!!

Only ever smacked my daughter once, and she smacked me right back. What was I supposed to do – tell her smacking was wrong, hit her harder? Quickly realised the futility of the situation and have never laid a hand on her since.

Quickly realised the futility of the situation

Bingo.

I smacked both my kids when they were young. I did it for a short period of time in a particular way and for certain behaviour. I did it because the charade of them pretending to be bothered about being sent to the naughty step (and then dealing with repeated requests to leave the step), or having some other privilege or possession removed just wasn’t worth the effort. It was a brief, not particularly pleasant, but effective episode. We did it and moved on. They learned to do what they were told at an age when they were testing boundaries. Boundaries are there to be tested, but there are limits.

I didn’t beat the shit out of them in any way and I’ve definitely smacked my wife on the arse (in fun) a lot harder than I smacked the kids!

They are now 14 and 19 and I’ve just asked them if they can remember getting smacked. They can just about remember it and neither are remotely bothered about it. They are well-adjusted and well-behaved young adults.

It wasn’t abuse in any way. Any arguments about it being the same as hitting an adult are facile, and I’d like to see someone deal with an adult with the mental age of a five year old by sending them to the naughty step, which is actually the equivalent argument.

So if you have a real live wire, a character, wild and boisturous 3yr old who laughs when you talk to him about the main road or the TV plug and he continually ignores you what should you do?

Remove all electricty?
Dont go anywhere near roads until hes old?
Give him ADD medication from the Docs? A modern blanket-coverall for ‘naughty’ children?

‘I raised X children and talking to them worked’.

Is FANTASTIC as no normal adult takes any joy at all in hitting his or her beloved and loved child now do they?

It seems a few posters seem to lack the distinction between having to and actively wanting to (and the force) of punishing a child. Are you fit to parent if you blinker-view life and generalise?

hora – Member
So if you have a real live wire, a character, wild and boisturous 3yr old who laughs when you talk to him about the main road or the TV plug and he continually ignores you what should you do?

Well since they should be treated as fully mature adults (?) perhaps you could give them Plato’s Republic to read with the promise of some nice ice cream when they can come of the naughty step and explain his allegory of the cave. Worked wonders with my kids! 😉

Poopsies – Member
Any arguments about it being the same as hitting an adult are facile

Careful poopsies, you will upset folk with that kind of idea!!!!