Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 186 total)
  • Smack my kids up!!
  • anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49908849

    Smacking kids to be banned in Scotland.
    Was surprised to read it says 70-80% of parents use smacking.

    Now lets hear from 240 000 people for who smacking did them no harm. No surprise that the Tories are against it!

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Once again scotlands socially liberal policies diverge further from Englands.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Honestly thought it already was. Im good with that, there are plenty of ways of disciplining a child without the use of physical force. Of course that requires discipline in the person dealing with the child rather than just taking the easy way.

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    batfink
    Free Member

    I can remember being smacked once-or-twice, but it really was that infrequent, so I don’t think I fit into the “was smacked as a child” category.

    I now have two young kids – and wouldn’t dream of smacking them. In my opinion, smacking is done out of parental frustration, rather than as a deliberate disciplinary strategy. Other peoples opinions will vary…. obvs.

    swavis
    Full Member

    Honestly thought it already was.

    This ^

    PiknMix
    Free Member

    Like every other situation, if you have to resort to the application of physical violence, you’ve already failed.

    Spin
    Free Member

    “critics arguing that the current law is sufficient, and that the changes risk criminalising “good” parents.”

    Were I a parent I probably wouldn’t have smacked my children but I think these are pretty valid concerns.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Were I a parent I probably wouldn’t have smacked my children but I think these are pretty valid concerns.

    Care to expand on why?
    My biggest concern is the current laws risk not criminalising shit parents who beat their kids.

    kenneththecurtain
    Free Member

    Iirc I was smacked once or twice as a kid. It was always there as a threat though, which was probably quite an effective deterrent.

    Presumably the sort of person who goes way ott and beats a child isn’t going to care that the law has changed, so who is the law aimed at? (Genuine question btw, I don’t have kids so I don’t know if the threat of a smack is still a ‘thing’ amongst sensible parents)

    muggomagic
    Full Member

    But if you take smacking off the table then you weaken your negotiating position.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Honestly thought it already was.

    Children’s Act 2004.

    Wasnt a complete ban, allows reasnoble punishment. Although I. Sure it was reported/interpreted as a ban at thr time.

    perchypanther
    Free Member

    We can still taser them though?

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Since moving North in 2008 we’ve been a non smacking family.

    I can say, as I’m sure some others will, that to my embarrassment I have smacked a couple of times when one of them had really pushed me. It’s made me reflect on the fact that the smack was out of anger, not discipline. This has really helped me as a parent move on from needing to smack and sort out some of my own issues, without taking it out on the kids.

    I’m supportive of this law.

    I’m wth TJ – the longer I live up here, the more I see a real difference between nations in the UK, and I like the Scottish direction of travel. A lot.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    We can still taser them though?

    Duck tape leaves fewer marks.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    But if you take smacking off the table then you weaken your negotiating position.

    The perfect metaphor. It’s quite literally a coup!

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    I fail to see why anyone would want to beat their children.  A shameful act of adult control by bullying, fear and aggression.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    I’ve always felt that smacking a child once one has been driven mad by him or her is forgivable. It’s not right, but it’s a loss of control or temper. I’ve been close to that point many times – I’m sure many parents have. I got a few whacks as a kid but they were a failing of my dad’s control. He was human like the rest of us – I’d driven him mad and he cracked. It has no effect on me now, thankfully. I can remember that they didn’t work whereas stuff like grounding, loss of TV, etc had more of an effect.

    However, I find the application of physical punishment in a controlled manner, be that in school or the home, as part of a “process” quite sinister. And that is what those who are against this kind of legislation seem to be defending. And they can **** off.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    I find the application of physical punishment in a controlled manner, be that in school or the home, as part of a “process” quite sinister.

    Been banned in school for years.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Been banned in school for years.

    Really? I had no idea.

    submarined
    Free Member

    Good, it’s domestic abuse.

    Like every other situation, if you have to resort to the application of physical violence, you’ve already failed.

    Bravo. This indeed.
    All it serves as is an outlet for the smacker’s anger. My son has made me utterly furious on several occasions, to the point I’ve had to leave the house and go for a wander to calm the **** down. But then again, so has my wife, and so have my colleagues. And I’d never dream of hitting any of them. So what the hell would give me the right to do it to a child based on the fact I am their parent, so have some sort of implicit right over them? Not a chance. The more countries that follow suit, the better.
    And the ‘oh, it was just a little tap’ excuse – well, why? Surely, in your head if you’re smacking someone it’s to make an impact, a ‘little tap’ will have no impact, so why do it? So either it wasn’t a ‘little tap’ and you were just losing control, or it was, and you’d just run out of ideas of how to effectively control your child, so fumbled wildly for anything you thought might work.

    Yup, fully aware the above won’t be a popular opinion, but meh, abhor violence of any kind, brought up by a child protection officer and someone who worked in a residential home for abused teenagers. So have experienced first hand stories of violence towards children at it’s worst.

    Much respect to Matt OAB up there for reflecting on his reasons and making a decision based on that reflection.

    orangespyderman
    Full Member

    I can say, as I’m sure some others will, that to my embarrassment I have smacked a couple of times when one of them had really pushed me. It’s made me reflect on the fact that the smack was out of anger, not discipline. This has really helped me as a parent move on from needing to smack and sort out some of my own issues, without taking it out on the kids.

    I’m supportive of this law.

    Just to say absolutely +1 on this. It doesn’t solve anything, when it has happened to me (and to my wife, who is much more mild mannered than I am in general…) it’s been desperation, anger, frustration and all sorts of negative feelings; having understood that has really cemented the idea in my mind that it’s not something you can use to bring up your children, it’s rather something you default to when you’ve stopped trying or are no longer able to educate them properly because you’re overwhelmed by your own emotions or something.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    Three points:

    1) I’m sure I recall smacking being banned a few years back.

    2) On reflection, I’d be amazed if smacking was ever legal. For it to be legal there would surely need to be some kind of exception for chastising a child in the various bits of assault legislation and I bet there isn’t. Can someone who knows about the law confirm or debunk that?

    3) I smack my young kids in playfights all the time, but it’s never occurred to me smack them as a punishment. In our playfights my “objective” is to smack them and their ‘objective’ is to wrestle me into a position where they can jump on me. (…and that *does* hurt.) I dunno why, that’s how it’s evolved. They laugh all the way through and come back for more which confirms my memory as a child that the fear of being smacked was far more about the humiliation than the pain. Any punishment of a child is going to be unpleasant. We use the naughty step and I guess the punishment there is boredom/humiliation/shame.

    According to the teachers I know humiliation of kids is the standard punishment in school these days. If you use a wounding wise-crack to make the misbehaving kid looks small in front of his mates he behaves.

    So yeah, we’ve rightly stopped smacking our kids in the modern world but we shouldn’t slap ourselves on the back too much – we’re still using punishments that the kids hate and always will, how else do you get the message across to a 2 year old that they shouldn’t bite? The only way to avoid chastising a child in a way they dislike is to not have children. (…and the planet would thank you for that!)

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    I’m with Matt – I’ll admit I have smacked one of mine, once. She was too young to reason with, I was exhausted and at the end of my tether, and she risked hurting herself.

    I felt, and still feel, awful that I resorted to it. But it stopped the tantrum so I could get her safe. Never did it again.

    Should I face a criminal record for that?

    ads678
    Full Member

    I’ve got 2 kids 11 and 9. Never smacked them and they’re both doing really well. Yeah they can be a pain in the arse at times but generally respond to removing x box or tv for a bit.

    Oh and I’m English and my parents never smacked me or my sisters either. We’re not all racist brexiteer monsters TJ!

    eat_the_pudding
    Free Member

    tj

    Once again scotlands socially liberal policies diverge further from Englands.

    But lets remember a few other things,
    Named person scheme (Now quietly defunct, tho’ it lived on for a while after being declared illegal).
    Tuition fees policies effectively restricting number of poorer scottish people able to attend scottish universities.
    Scrapping participation in comparative educational statistics when results are negative.
    Police Scotland centralisation.
    Less spent on NHS than England.
    Greater cuts to council budgets than in England.

    Not everything looks liberal up here when you don’t drink the kool-aid.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    All it serves as is an outlet for the smacker’s anger.

    I grew up when smacking was broadly deemed ok at home and that wasn’t how it worked. I have no direct memory of being smacked but I know I was and the procedure was more like a judicial process: ie “You pushed your brother near the busy road, go to your room and think about what you’ve done and when he gets home your dad will smack you.”. It was never done in anger.

    So AFAIK lashing out at a child in anger is not ‘smacking’ used as a punishment.

    bikebouy
    Free Member

    Can you still lock them up under the stairs and play ghost sounds to them?

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    I’m with Matt – I’ll admit I have smacked one of mine, once. She was too young to reason with, I was exhausted and at the end of my tether, and she risked hurting herself.

    I felt, and still feel, awful that I resorted to it. But it stopped the tantrum so I could get her safe. Never did it again.

    Should I face a criminal record for that?

    If you smacked her to calm her down to stop her hurting herself you were morally in the right AFAIC.

    If you smacked her in because “I was exhausted and at the end of my tether” then you were morally in the wrong.

    By mixing the two up you’ve made it pretty hard to judge!

    All IMHO.

    Here’s another moral question. How about allowing your kids to physically punish each other? My son went through a biting phase at two. If he bit his sister she would hit him back immediately. I often pretended not to see the retaliation because I (rightly) figured an immediate smack in the face every time he bit would help him stop biting. (And also because putting them both on the naughty step when he’d started it and his violence had left visible marks and her’s hadn’t seemed unfair to me.)

    ….and… …can I be the first in this thread to say “NO PUDDING!”.

    submarined
    Free Member

    How about allowing your kids to physically punish each other? My son went through a biting phase at two. If he bit his sister she would hit him back immediately. I often pretended not to see the retaliation because I (rightly) figured an immediate smack in the face every time he bit would help him stop biting.

    Not really a difficult one imho.
    You’re teaching both children that the answer to violence is violence. And if you then don’t punish both of them afterwards you’re saying you’re ok with that.
    Not the route I’d personally take tbh.

    My son once did similar in retaliation to another kid biting him. He was on the step quick as a flash. He’s never done it again. Now he just walks away. (Obviously he’s weak, right? Don’t care. Makes me proud)
    /Leftiehippy

    w00dster
    Full Member

    As a child of the 70s, born into a poor mining & military family (born in England to a Welsh dad and a Belfast mum) – I was never smacked and nor was my brother and we both pushed the limits of my dads self control on a regular basis. My dad worked away a fair bit, so to hear him say over the phone “I’m disappointed in you son” would hurt more than a smack on the backside ever could.
    I’ve also never felt the need to smack my kids either. As others have said, the biggest threat to them is removal of other “liberties” – pocket money and ipad/iphone for a weekend is generally the threat we use.
    But, I can see how things could be different. I’m blessed to have a fairly easy family life and as poor as my upbringing was – we all lived relatively easy normal lives. My kids generally behave, we don’t really have any worries and live happily. So we don’t have the same stress and general cr@p other people have to deal with on a day to day basis. While I’m not condoning smacking, I can see how different people are conditioned to deal with life.
    And just because there is a law against it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Its a step in the right direction, but the administering of the law is what is important.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    My mum used to hit us all the time, many a wooden spoon was broken on my ass, I think she was compensating for us not having a dad. Who knows. I havent hit my son who is almost 9 now.

    stevextc
    Free Member

    You’re teaching both children that the answer to violence is violence.

    As opposed to what?
    If someone hits my kid with a big stick am I to tell him to curl up and ask then nicely to stop whilst he’s still conscious?
    If someone comes and tries to steal his bike should he ask them nicely for a name and address?

    Dickyboy
    Full Member

    Ask the risk of being shouted down I believe that sometimes a smack is useful armoury to have – this is speaking as a single parent of three boys for 15yrs from when the youngest was 1yo. A total ban on smacking is not going to help abused children but it will put at risk discipline in families that are struggling. To quote my oldest son when mid teens he said he could do anything he liked at school because “they couldn’t do anything to you” Being a single parent is tough, sometimes you don’t have the benefit of one to one parenting to explain a child’s wrong doing without giving them a bit of a shock. I can count on one hand the number of times that I ever smacked them but to criminalise me for that ffs. PS now a happily married father of 5 fully fledged (1 still in the nest) adults. Flame away 🔥

    submarined
    Free Member

    As opposed to what?

    Really?
    Walking/running away. I don’t care what that makes you think of me/my son. If rather he were safe.

    If someone tries to nick property from me then then meh, it’s material possessions. It’s not worth getting the shit kicked out of me for. It’s why my car keys are by the front door and the car is insured.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Flame away 🔥

    I just think you are wrong, I dont see how smacking helps. Its gone 30s after its done.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    I “smacked” my daughter once, hitting her across the back of the hand, when she was about to burn herself in a fire. It was an instant, responsive, action on my part. I didn’t see it as punishment. Still don’t.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    Not really a difficult one imho.
    You’re teaching both children that the answer to violence is violence. And if you then don’t punish both of them afterwards you’re saying you’re ok with that.
    Not the route I’d personally take tbh.

    No I’m not. In that specific case I’m teaching them the Dad doesn’t see *everything* they do wrong which they already know. They still know that retaliation is wrong and gets you punished from the times I *do* see it.

    …and I refuse to believe that your lad stopped retaliating after *one* trip to the naughty step! Retaliation is an everyday part of the life of a toddler, it takes thousands of trips to the naught step and a bit of maturity to fix in all of us.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    I “smacked” my daughter once, hitting her across the back of the hand

    Smacking is a flat hand to the butt. Hitting a child on the head is *not* smacking!

    philjunior
    Free Member

    socially liberal policies

    I have to say that, whilst I agree with a ban on smacking, it’s not a liberal policy, is it?

    Anyway, aside from that, I would never hit my children, I can’t logically justify it, the most likely reason for punishment would be their inappropriate, possibly violent, behaviour. My ex has once (to my knowledge) lost it and smacked one of them. He behaves better when he’s with me than with her.

    Good parents that smack their children just don’t exist. Other forms of discipline are available, which don’t give the impression that physical strength should be used to solve disputes, and are far more effective.

    Your aim is to teach, not punish. That doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences, E.g. I take my kids to do fun things, which have an element of risk. I need them to be able to show me that they are responsible enough to do these activities, therefore these won’t happen if they’ve been misbehaving – this isn’t a punishment, just a consequence. If they won’t get ready in the morning, we still have to do all the chores but have less time for fun stuff.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    I don’t think the law differentiates according to the part of the body.

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