Right I have an old SLR Canon 300d, quite a few canon lenses and 3/4 Panasonic Lumix GF2. I wanted to make some nice biking films and wondered if anybody had any advice. I was looking at a Canon to fit my lenses but what difference are there between the different models? Digital Rebel XTi, EOS XXD, and EOS 5D? Don’t a lot of the big boys use the 5D for making films? Would it be so much better than the others? What are they like in low light and how robust are they? Any links to films made with the different cameras? What lenses are best to use. I suppose something quite wide angle.

Also will they be that much different from my 3/4 Panasonic?

I would have thought the 4/3rds lenses would be useful on a hybrid camera for filming. Simply because a DSLR needs to flip the mirror up in order to focus. The lack of the mirror in the hybrid would allow the camera to operate in a continuous focus mode whilst filming.

I’d much rather use a camcorder for riding films personally. Much lighter and the ability to use well with one hand.

60d gives 60fps at 720p and has no issues with your lenses, it’s probably your best bet for performance and price. a good tripod, loupe/eyepiece for the lcd and a follow-focus might be other useful considerations, but costs can rack up quickly.. you can do a lot on the cheap though, http://cheesycam.com/ covers a lot of diy and ebay options

So this is made with a EOS 550D and looks pretty cool. [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCKypIvY-08&feature=related[/video] Do you have to buy a dead expensive lens? One of the issues with the 3/4 would be it not behaving itself with low light and focusing. Did not want to spend lots of money on a wide angle lens for it if I could get a one for an SLR.

Really depends on what you are wanting.

Camcorder style cameras have the advantage over DSLR’s for continuous auto focus and this is about it. DSLR’s have the range of changeable lens and all the control that you are used to with already having a DSLR. You will be shooting everything in manual though so if you aren’t able to get used to changing settings quickly and even remembering to do it, it might not be for you. If you know about aperture, ISO, and shutter speed you should be fine.

5D is clearly the big boys toy and if you can afford it great. Full frame sensor is gong to work better in low light and well it’s the dog bollox. As long as you learn how to use it you will be very happy with this camera.

If you don’t have the budget for a full frame sensor then I don’t see the point going for anything above the 600D (unless you just have money to burn) if your primary use is for video.
It does 1080p at 30fps and 720p at 60fps. It has the fold out screen where the 550D doesn’t (this is actually super useful). The 650D has continuous auto focus but it’s rubbish, so bad I wouldn’t even consider it. The other thing is that Magic Lantern is available for the 600D which is basically some hacked firmware that allows you to do a “whole load of extra stuff”. You might not be into the idea of running hacked software on a £500 camera though. I do and love it but not everyone has the nerve. 😛

I started off with a GoPro shooting MTB stuff. Pushed it to the limit and got a 600D, IMO it will be the perfect combination. Unfortunately I broke my arm soon after getting it so not shot any MTB stuff yet but I have made a few other little movies that I’m happy with and really can’t complain about the camera.

You don’t need very expensive lenses at all. I have the Canon 50mm prime, about £80 (awesome!) and the 18-55mm kit lens, came with the body, (not so awesome but fine for a kit lens). Clearly a nice lens always helps though. Its something you can invest in later if you get really into it.

(By the way the Rebel T2i is the American version of the 550D and the Rebel T3i is the American version of the 600D.)

It’s not my video! But it’s nicely shot.

Fold out screen is very useful but the 550D is crazy bang for your buck.

Especially from somewhere like Digital Rev – http://www.digitalrev.com/product/canon-kiss-x4-eos-550d/OTgxNw_A_A

This was self-shot on a 550d, there’s definitely a different way of filming; and waving it about, zooming and relying on auto-focus is not the way.

I’d disagree with molgrips, in that there’s not a single camcorder in existence that will deliver anything like the nice visuals and have the lens flexibility of a DSLR for the money, but, you have to work within its limitations… I tend to stick to more static or at least slowly panned shots and let the rider ride into the focal point for best effect.

[video]http://vimeo.com/46708557[/video]

Hhah yeah read your post again and edited it out. :p

I got the 600D, look up Kiss X5, (Japanese version) from Digital Rev.
I spent ages trying to decide if the fold out screen was worth the extra. I can say it definitely is. Being able to always see the screen no matter how you have the camera set-up specially if you are going to be doing self film stuff on the bike.

Oddly the Kiss X5 is cheaper on Digial Rev at the moment WTF?!?
http://www.digitalrev.com/product/canon-kiss-x5-eos-600d/MTExMzY_A

EDit: Gary is right. There are people in the film world using 5D’s now instead of the RED (that’s a minimum £5000 camera) because the quality of image from DSLR’s is so high.

By the way, I do nearly everything on the cheapo 50mm 1.8 prime, crazy good lens for the money!

Heh that’s crazy composite. Buy it now OP!

Is that the final price? When I hover over the price it says import duty paid?

Camcorder style cameras have the advantage over DSLR’s for continuous auto focus and this is about it.

Well you tend to get one much more versatile lens, they can be far cheaper, and portability and ease of use could be a big plus. If you want to just whip out, shoot someone doing something then continue with a ride, that could be a big plus. It would be much slower with a DSLR I reckon. You’re straying into actual photoshoot territory rather than a ride with some shooting. Which might be ok with you.

Latest versions of Olympus Pens can focus whilst shooting video afaik.

And image quality is way way down the list of things that make a good bike movie, imo.

There have been some crazy deals on the 600d and 550d recently (since the 650d came out).
They are running out though – most people report that cameras from the Canon Ebay Outlet store come completely new (ie. shop returns, not customer returns).
The only one I can see is the 550 with kit lens at £379 at the moment.
The 600d was £399 last week.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-EOS-550D-Digital-SLR-Camera-18-55mm-Lens-Refurbished-/290776615906?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN&hash=item43b3a30be2

I’m waiting for the 70D to come out and then buy a reduced 60D

I’m waiting for the 70D to come out and then buy a reduced 60D

Although I’ve just seen that they haven’t mentioned it at Photokina 🙁

GEDA – if you want one with 600D on it instead of Kiss X5 (for resale value), then that £375 from the same place:
Canon EOS 800D Body (Rebel T7i)

Well you tend to get one much more versatile lens, they can be far cheaper, and portability and ease of use could be a big plus. If you want to just whip out, shoot someone doing something then continue with a ride, that could be a big plus. It would be much slower with a DSLR I reckon. You’re straying into actual photoshoot territory rather than a ride with some shooting. Which might be ok with you.

Latest versions of Olympus Pens can focus whilst shooting video afaik.

And image quality is way way down the list of things that make a good bike movie, imo.”

What do you mean by versatile lens?

Of course budget can come into in that sense but as the OP was already looking at cameras “of a certain budget” it seemed like that wouldn’t be a consideration.

I did mention about how you would be shooting every thing on manual and you would need to get used to that. If not having that kind of control over what you capture is not an issue then there is no point having the control. Being able to whip it out quick and shoot is true though. However I would say that most of the time once you have roughly set your exposure at the start of the day, quickly tweaking the aperture, ISO or shutter speed (depending on what you are looking for) becomes second nature very quickly. Most of the stuff I have shot with mine is all “run and gun” style and I don’t miss much that I want to get from having to faff with the settings. Manual focus can be slightly annoying on occasion though granted but since using the Focus helper in magic lantern this has been reduced to almost zero annoyance.

I think I get what you are saying about image quality not being most important and assume that you are saying getting the shot is more important. I just don’t get why you need to have either or? Learn the bit of kit and you can operate it just as quick IMO. 🙂

Another thing Geda is that as you already have a 300D I assume you are into photography? Using a DSLR means you only have to take one camera with you to shoot both video and stills.

Buy one of the cheaper bodies (like the 550 or the 600/650D.
save some cash for lots of extra batteries, and some large SD cards.

Invest in a good tripod, and some form of ‘grip’ for the camera. You just cant really use them handheld to any good level.

The flip out screen will be a major advantage.

Look into picture profiles for the camera, and do some colour/image correction in the post production stage. You’ll have footage almost as good as professional if you master these last steps.

Also, dont even think about getting good sound on ANY of these cameras.

What do you mean by versatile lens?

Wide to telephoto range.

I just don’t get why you need to have either or?

Well it depends on your situation. If your mates are happy to stand around whilst you set up the shot etc then fine, if you are going to try and grab your footage when you can as part of a normal ride, it might not be so welcome. I reckon with an SLR you’re more likely to hav eto stop, dismount, fish out of bag and shoot from a standing position with both hands, but with a camcorder you can whip it out of a belt bag in seconds, without dismounting. If you use one of those flip ones it could be in the pocket of your baggies even.

Just trying to point out that practicalities are more important than IQ when it comes to photography, imo.. it may be something OP might like to think about, maybe not 🙂

It’s very true about the lens sizes, a dilemma I have been having myself. The 50mm is great but can be just a bit too zoom at times when there isn’t a huge amount of space to move back from the subject. Could be a problem in tight single track situations. Looking at replacing my kit lens with a Tamron 17-50mm which is plenty wide enough though. I have no need for a mega zoom, I have borrowed my girl friend’s 50ish-135mm and not really needed it.

I would say that shooting any camera handheld brings with it the same problems. An SLR could be in a hip/chest bag the same as most camcorders.

If you go to the size of a flip cam though and are happy with that sort of camera then why not go for a GoPro or Drift or “the other one”? At least then you have the option of strapping it on the bike and they are really small and bomb proof.

An SLR could be in a hip/chest bag the same as most camcorders.

Massively less convenient though, the SLR chest bags are enormous.

What camcorders specifically are you thinking about Molgrips?

So have you guys actually ordered anything from that DigitalRev website?

They seem to be based in Hong Kong. Did you guys get stung with any import duty or any hidden extras? Also what happens if a fault occurs is the warranty still valid?

So have you guys actually ordered anything from that DigitalRev website?

Yes.

They seem to be based in Hong Kong. Did you guys get stung with any import duty or any hidden extras?

No.

I would advise making sure you change your country to UK in the bottom right hand corner of the page, just so you get everything in £.

EDIT: I remember reading that a bunch of people did get hit for tax, maybe VAT but they scanned the receipt from paying it and DigitalREv refunded it. Like in this discussion for example: http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=278316

Also what happens if a fault occurs is the warranty still valid?

I seem to remember reading that they will either ship back to Hong Kong and then honor the warranty there or you can get it repaired in “your” country at an authorized repair centre of their choice. Trying to find the link right now.

EDIT2: Here’s a link to their warranty stuff but that doesn’t say there what I said above I can’t find that specifically.
http://www.digitalrev.com/help/terms-of-product-warranty/NDE_A

Someone talking about their experience (don’t let the url put you off). http://moot.mooh.org/archives/2010/12/digitalrev-warranty-is-worthless.html

EDIT3: Finally found the bit about local servicing. http://www.digitalrev.com/help/digitalrev-12-month-warranty-with/MzQ_A

I happened to get the email about this deal this morning as well.

http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/national-deal/ASK-Direct/10493962?nlp=&CID=UK_CRM_1_0_0_262&a=1664

DigitalRev are well used on other forums I frequent. They seem very decent (just like onestop-digital)
I just know that for me, I’d prefer one labelled 600D over one labelled Rebel or Kiss, for future resale reasons.
I’d also prefer a non-grey import if there was only 10 percent in it.

HDEW cameras are a good alternative to digital rev. Similar pricing but based in uk, bought my 7D and a few lenses from them a few months back.

GEDA – do you have an update on your thoughts for us?

Just re-read your OP and the thread.

The difference between an SLR and a video camera is that the SLR is more like film camera.
With a film camera, you need to organise your shots before filming them.
Basically, behave like they would on a film set. Setting focus beforehand, getting people to hit their marks, editing rather than moving the camera while filming (look at how little the camera moves in that video above), rarely hand-held, repeating the scene so that you can record different angles, etc, etc.

A video camera is much more suited to recording live events. They focus all the time, they have stability so it’s not dreadful it you handhold, they allow you to zoom while filming more effectively.

The drawbacks are usually the quality. You need to spend an awful lot of money to be able to get a shallow depth of field for example and those long lenses come at the expense of sharness, colour accuracy and low light performance.

Searching on Vimeo for all the models you mentioned will give you great examples of each and there is also the Sony RX100 compact to consider too. Bear in mind that filming is only one aspect. A lot of time gets sucked into the editing, colour correcting, exporting process too.

In terms of warranty, camera lenses are usually worldwide warranty and you can get them serviced anywhere.

Cameras on the other hand may not be. Certainly with my Nikon kit, the camera is only warrantied in the EU (EU law insists it’s valid EU wide if bought in any EU state though manufacturer’s try to wriggle out of that and limit it to one, e.g. just UK). My lenses are all worldwide warranty and a few of those were bought from Hong Kong.

Some of the HK dealers will also repay any VAT & Duty if you do happen to get hit.

I’ve used OneStopDigital a number of times and good service from them.

Thanks for the advice. I live in Sweden and found a 600d for about £467 in the local mega electric shop. The one from Groupon looks good as you can get 5% off that with Top cash back so it will work out £426 about.

I did want it to replace my current SLR and use it as a video camera. For £40 it may be easier to be it all here in Sweden.