Back to Colwyn's original query, we really need to know what type of guiding you want to do. If its for the Crystals etc mob then I reckon you need to be able to ski.

The only reason I say this is because, like on here alot of people still have a perception that one is better than the other. I would reckon that many skiers wouldnt want to be guided by a boarder and vice versa. Stupid really.

Some of the best skiing I have ever done has been off piste with boarders and skiers as a group.

Also back to the OPs query:

Some resorts I've been to (particularly Canadian ones) have their own "resort hosts" who offer free guided skiing around the resort.

If it was one of these positions then you'd probably need to be skiing. The groups are generally mixed, but you may find yourself leading a group of skiers and need to ride flat stuff.

Most skiers can parallel within a week of lessons.
Now carving that's another thing. I still struggle to carve properly and have been skiing 21 years.
All recreational boarders or skiers find it hard to get really experienced as we only ski/snowboard a couple of weeks a year.

It's the former of the two options and agree I'm likely to be able to ski!

I started out on a snowboard and after 3 seasons I reckon I am pretty competent. They are more accessible than skis and can be just as good for touring as long as you aren't traversing much. MSR snowshoes rule.

I went over to skis for a bit of something different and because I wanted the option to do longer tours. I was good enough to blast around the pistes after a couple of days and probably did my first tour after a week. It took me probably 25 days to get confident on steeps, ice, and deep snow. If you don't mind falling you can pick it up quite quickly. Skiing is more demanding in terms of fitness and technique on challenging terrain. I find skiing more rewarding now as I feel like I learn something every day wheras I have probably hit a plateau on the board.

If you want to ski-guide for a tour op you will be fine on a board. If you need to transfer to skis quickly I would get an intensive course at the start of the season and tie it in with some sort of guide qualification. And get fit, circuits, weights, plyometrics are all good.

I do know people who've done tour-op guiding on snowboards, it can work – it depends on the resort and the number and type of guests. Generally though, its more usual to find skiiers doing the guiding

How long to learn to ski? Too long. In fact longer than that. A waste of a week of my life per year, let alone the cost of kit that sits idle, flights and hotels. The devils own sport. A pain as mrs rickmeister is a fantastic ski-ist but the whole thing is completely lost on me. I would rather have my ballbag stamped into broken glass….

And yes, I can ski parallel but getting dragged up a hill to slide down again… its a bit dull, more so when this happens over and over again over the course of several days…..

Just my humble opinion of course…..and yes I have a life……. just skiing doesnt work for me…..

To learn from scratch you can be generally competent (as in not dangerous to yourself or others) in 3-5 days depending on your physical conditioning. If you are a fat lazy bloater then you'll find it harder work than a xc race whippet.
I worked as a ski instructor and ski patroller FT for 2 yrs (4 seasons) and have taught on and off for 15yrs +. If you want to 'guide' for a tour company (and in fact can you still I thought they banned this like every other form of anti-ESF competition !) they just ask you to be competent and generally prefer ski led guides for ski groups and board led guides for board groups. There are limitations both ways in terms of ability to traverse and access (on a board) and go through deep stuff (skiiers generally find this harder than boarders for obvious reasons). Being a proper guide means you need the same quals as a patroller give or take so that includes all your avi quals + first aid + whatever else depending on country (I worked in NZ, USA and France). So i ended up with full first aid + emergency first aid + trauma care training + 2 types of instructor ticket (BASI and NZSIA) + avalanche quals here in NZ which allowed me throw small bombs out of helicopters which is as exciting as it sounds.
However please feel free to come and watch someone who hasn't been on snow for the last 6 years have a go next weekend. That should be interesting !

Smee – Member

I went from never having been on skis to being confident on black runs in a matter of hours, but then I had been snowboarding and kayakin for many many years. Its all about remembering what your edges are doing and what you want them to do. Confident or overconfident? 😆

Two things here:
1) Ski run grading is a very random thing. Take Val D'Isere The main run which ends up in La Daille is graded green, but it's a challenging red over considerable sections. In Tignes there's a black run adjacent to a red run that is far easier to ski than the red as the red is always in sun and thys turns to a sheet of ice much of the time.

I am 100% certain that nobody can go from being a total beginner to confident on black runs in a matter of hours! If Smee did, it will certainly be because he hit one of those gay sections on a black run.

2)Where is the relevance of Kayaking to skiing?

gonefishin – Member

The downsides are getting on and off lifts and it's not much fun if your group contains skiers and boarders. Buttons T-Bars and chairs, all a hassle on a board.

They really aren't that bad you know. Most boarders that complain about them haven't put the time in to learn how to do it properly. As part of one lesson I had on a board we had to use a T bar without holding on. It was "entertaining" but not that difficult.

Well my buddy of some ten years still hates T-Bars and buttons. He's a menace on chairs. Always crossing my skis and clumsy getting off chairs. He prefers to take a gondola (which I dislike becaue I don't like taking skis off and putting them back on all the time).

I find, as a skier, it's generally harder to predict where a boarder will go.

If you were to learn how to board, you'd have a much better idea of where a boarder will be going. Not having a go but I think that is down to your ignorance (i.e. lack of knowledge) of snowboarding more than anything else.

No, I have a snowboard buddy who I always ski with. His technique is advanced. He has a rhythm and a style that is totally predictable, like a competent skier. The difference with novice skiers and novice borders is that the skier's incompetence is immediately telling. Not so much so with the boarder. Or perhaps they are great boarders who don't give a stuff about anyone else on the mountain!

I am not ignorant about boarding! Whilst my experience is very limited (commencing in 1992), I do also talk to boarders. I've been doing this for at least 10 years, but I have my eyes open and observe a great deal.

I think these are mostly novices who are confident beyond their ability etc

This can apply to skiers as much as boarders.

Yes, but as I said, skiers who don't know what they are doing stick out like a sore thumb.

One thing that boarders always seem to be doing is clipping in and unclipping their bindings. I looks like a complete pain in the butt. I'm always towing my mate on the flat sections and he hates stopping on anything other than steep sections. Most of the time boarders have to sit down when they stop. Getting up on a steep slope is a lot easier.

Personally, these impracticalities when boarding and the fact that the bindings don't release puts me off. Skiing is a more flexible solution, just harder to learn and not percieved as cool as boarding. Each to their own eh!

Wow this has kicked off a bit.

It's eldrige's fault – he's horrid.

But he's right about skiing being more practical. But I find snowboarding more visceral and fun.

I learned to parallel on long, straight skiis in a week. But basic carving on one ski took me many more weeks. [It's way easier and better on modern skis tho – almost cheating]. Anyway, I tried boarding for a laugh and in just 3 days I was already better at that so I've rarely bothered skiing again – except minis which I do occaisionally as they are a scream on packed-pow pistes.

I expect you'll pick up skiing just fine. And there are SOME advantages IMO – moguls are much easier, as are steep draglifts and flats can be skated instead of having to hit them at warp speed on a board. But jumps and pow are well tricky. Still, it's good to learn new things. I think really good skiiers who can carve properly on both skis and do jumps and tricks look very cool indeed, but I reckon it takes Eons to get that good.

I expect when I get too old I'll chuck snowboarding and MTB, and go back to skiing and road riding 😉

I can do both to a reasonable standard and I prefer boarding. Off-piste powder on a board is the most fun you can have on snow imo.

If it's "hosting" for holiday company, then it doesn't really matter if you ski or board. More important to know where you are going and where the good restaurants for lunch are, how to avoid lift queues.

Any time I've been out with a host from chalet, more often they have been boarding.

And form above:

…I've watched him and he doesn't put in many turns, he mostly slides down 'em.

Sliding on back edge? He's one of the ones scraping all the snow from pistes then? 😉

Pistes: a way to get back to the lift from the powder.

How about a STW skifest? We could book a couple of large catered chalets.

One for the boarders, the other for the skiers. 😈

agree with others of reasonable sense in here; 3-5 days as you will only have to worry about technique and not the whole how do lifts work etc type of stuff.

However…I'd go for the Telemark option personally; I've Alpined for 20+ yrs, learnt to board back in 94 ish, and gave Tele a crack when I did my first season in 2000. It is not as hard as it looks; I was able to get up and down 'red' runs by the end of day one and tele kit has improved a crap load (i.e. made it easier) in the last 5 years – again, you have crossover techniques from boarding and the knowledge of how lifts and the piste system works. I reckon a week of lessons will have you able to 'guide' the majority of the pisted stuff no worries, whilst giving enough of a challenge to keep it interesting all season long.

You can cheat on the easy pistes and knock out (slightly poor and sloppy) alpine style turns, but will strengthen the legs heaps for summer riding with proper drop knee style. It is more of a work out, so you'll get fitter and learning to ski soft stuff can be quite an experience. But it is worth it. Besides, you'll have the board for when you feel the need for a break from the skis, but you'll impress the guests heaps by being so 'unique' with Tele gear = ice breaker, which is part of the battle with the guided punters (and = more free beer/naughtiness potential apres!!)

Also, if you decide to get into the touring side of things, being able to apply skins to the gear you are familiar with is a bonus (no trekkers or expensive second touring setup or rented setup).

Langy, at last, a fellow tell-ier speaks up! I used to Alpine – taught for a living for several years, but met a lovely lady (now my wife) who could do this amazingly graceful style of skiing – Telemarking. She taught me and I've been dropping the knee and still falling over (!) for nearly 10 years now.
Deep snow and tele-ing is a match made in heaven. But to return to the original post, a full week with an instructor for a fit sporty "bloke" should do it, but there are no guarantees!

Telemarking seems to be on the increase, though is still very exclusive. Looks very difficult to me and very tough on the knees.

Telemarking is a real mans game! We're waiting until the kids are old enough to ski blues and reds and then giving it a crack so we have something different to try.

A mate of mine went from total beginner at the start of the winter, to doing the Haute Route in 3 days, and skiing Mont Blanc in April. The physical hammering he gave himself was incredible, it was one of the most impressive displays of determination I have seen.

Just to continue on the theme, I can't understand this debate over whether skis or a board is better, doesn't everybody know that telemarking trumps both? I've made a gradual transition from a skier to a skier who boards to a boarder to a boarder who teles before finally reaching the ultimate destination 😀 Not that I'm great at teles, but I can do them on long thin touring skis with light boots (or even skiddy ones on my XC race skis!) which means I get to play where most people don't 😉

Mmm Telemarking….love it. Started back when i converted some rossi bandit X's and did it between taking classes. Was quite useless really but before i 'retired' coudl go anywhere on my teles that i could on my alpine skis.
Have just booked a few days in Wanaka so have struck a deal with the wife that as she isn't much if a skiier i will ski the first half day to remind myself i can then go Tele'ing for the rest to share in her pain – should be fun 🙂

Another telemarker here, and I believe that it offers more freedom than Alpine skiing. Does thatmake it better? Probably yes.

I boarded for over 7 years and never skied, but I spent a lot of time in the mountains with extremely good skiers. I honestly think I picked up good ski technique by osmosis. The boarding is great for powder, and fine for pa
larking about in the park. In the right conditions an Alpine carving board can be good too, but IMO skis offer the most versatile tool. Teleing takes it that bit further.

In terms of difficulty of learning, snowboarding is 2/10, and I rate tele as about 6/10 (for reference surfing is getting on for 10/10). I have never had any lessons, but I reckon skiing is about 5/10. How you get on will depend on your previous experince, your inate ability and your levels of perseverence. Good kit helps too.

I totally recommend Tele. It is the most versatile, the lightest, and extremely aesthetically pleasing to do well. On top of that you'll never get cold and you'll develop strength like you wouldn't believe. It can be hardto but trousers that fit your thighs though…

I picked up Tele in 6 weekends to an advanced intermediate standard using Paul Parker's book and the lifts at Glencoe. Seven years later I'm a fully competent off piste skier, but I'm still learning, and that's why it's great.

I've always fancied telemarking. Looks so much more graceful than fixed heels, I'm sure when one first starts it isn't the case though.

NZCol, do you know if there's any tele instructors in these parts?
I'm off up north to Ruapehu next month with the kids for a week, then down south on my own to Craigieburn for a week after that. I may treat myself to a day at Alpure as well for a bit of cat skiing.

pomona – nah sorry don;t know for sure. We used to teach it at Mt Hutt but beyond that wouldn't have a clue. Is Alpure what was Fox Peak ? I looked at that when it was for sale and we (the royal investment company we have) considered buying it but elected not to. My friend owns Mt Potts – they used to do cat skiing but are heli only now. Does look nice. Cragieburn takes me back to my days off from Mt Hutt, that and Olympus which in my opinion is the jewel in the sth island crown – empty great snow awesome terrain – if you make it up the road !
Anyway enough of that we should meet for a beer/ride – never did catch up with you since you arrived 🙂

NZCol, my missus did several seasons down your way, in fact I think she was one of the original tele girls (this is 15+ years ago!) she certainly talks fondly of off piste at Wanaka, Craigieburn, etc, etc. We were part of the Scottish instructor mob that appeared every winter. Happy days, still got the muffin making habit!
Oh aye, a winter tele-ing surely sets you up for a summer mtbing!

I thought that the world had moved on from this whole snowboard vs skiing thing and united in harmony against blades and monoskis…

I think Fox Peak is now Alpure, same area anyway. Is Mt Potts where HeliparkNZ is based? I've been considering a trip there but I think my budget will only stretch to cat skiing this year.

I haven't skied Olympus yet. Had a few days a Craigieburn last year and apart from spending 3 hours digging out an avalanche that blocked the road to get the ferry home it was quite possibly the best place I've ever skied.

Beer/ride sounds good. Have you still got my e-mail address? I'm a bit slow on the bike at the moment after having a few weeks off due to injury. I was at Makara today and had to stop 3 times on the way to the peak!!

difficulty:
snowboarding is 2/10
skiing is about 5/10

Seems about right to me, although I reckon snowboarding is only easier to learn if you don't mind crashing a lot. My mate really dislikes crashing and took several weeks to get comfy with red runs.

Oh and on the skiing vs snowboarding issue. They're both far better than riding a bike 😛
Mountain biking is purely a way to stay fit for the winter.

"They're both far better than riding a bike"

Erm, similar sort of thing for me really. But I do love sliding on snow.

Spongebob said:

One thing that boarders always seem to be doing is clipping in and unclipping their bindings. I looks like a complete pain in the butt.

Yeah it is a bit of a pain. They've tried various "quick release" clip-in bindings but they've never been very popular for some reason. (I had Switch bindings for a few years and loved them).

It does get a bit easier as you progress though and most boarders only really need a few seconds to strap in.

I'm always towing my mate on the flat sections and he hates stopping on anything other than steep sections.

Yep. We generally go on holiday as a mixed group of skiers and boarders (all of various abilities) and avoiding long flat connecting paths can be a pain, especially for beginners who find it difficult to keep up speed or speed-check on the flat.

But then we have the opposite problem when the boarders want to cut through unpisted stuff and the skiers can't manage it.

It's be nice if they did alternative piste maps for boarders.

Most of the time boarders have to sit down when they stop.

Yep. Though not so much "have to", as "can and do". 😉

..the fact that the bindings don't release puts me off.

Hmm.. interesting psychology. Can you expand?

One of the things that puts me off skiing is them coming off and having to go back for them after a stack. That and the possibility of the impromptu splits and other nutbreaking strains that can happen when your legs are attached to two independent slidey things.

—

Note: the above does not constitute an argument or defence for or against snowboarding versus skiing. It is purely a comparative discussion of my experiences. Your mileage may vary. It's all good. 😀

Thanks all for the input, as someone said knowing the decent runs/eateries is as prob as important as whether you ski/board. If guiding I'm unlikely to opt for runs with flat parts in if at all possible…

Yup, this is the kind of chat I'd want from a resort guide:

"If we get a dump then ignore the main lift and come straight here for freshies… don't go here late on. It gets icy… there is a nice off-piste run here between the trees… the cheesecake in there is frickin awesome."

pomona – yeah Helipark is Mt Potts. MC will look after you and its SO worth the extra $$ for the terrain they have in there and also the chance to go near Mt Sunday which was the villagey thing on the top of the hill in the LoTR 😉
Sorry nah don;t have your email – mine is col at securify dot co noz so drop me a line and we can limp around a ride – i'm not injured just lazy at the moment !

colwyn58 – back to the original question.

I confess I haven't read all the posts, just wanted to add my two pennies worth to the colwyn58 post topic.

Go private lessons if you can afford (maybe you and a couple of friends – if you are all starting to learn). Less waiting, more skiing and the instructors just seem to give just that little bit more.

We've seen people that have had 2 weeks lessons (and a bit of dry skiing practice in England) that are a worse standard than three days private lessons.