He said when he took over as leader that he’d stick with Corbyns policy agenda and since then has changed not one single aspect of that policy agenda

So what exactly is your problem?

You’ll be happy to provide some examples then…

Off you pop and put a list together

I do like a list

1. Erm……

A list derived from a vacuum? Good one.

He hasn’t shifted policy. He will have to. Pretty obvious that without conferences it’ll have to wait. So what’s the anger about right now…? Which policies has he dumped? Or is it just about a person*, not the policies?

*and I don’t mean Starmer [ sorry, I’m stepping away now … ]

Binners: reliably living down to expectations.

From a Guardian interview last month:

During his campaign for the leadership, he sought support among the left by issuing “10 pledges”, signing up to much of the Corbynite prospectus. Starmer is now putting a lot of distance between himself and those pledges, using the coronavirus crisis as his alibi. “The slate has been wiped pretty clean for everyone,” he contends, arguing that the pandemic means that both Labour and the Tories “are going to have to fundamentally rethink what they want to offer the electorate in 2024”.

If that’s not a clear admission that he will be ditching the Corbyn prospectus, I don’t know what is.

So, no rethink? No change from a losing, pre-pandemic, pre-Brexit 2019 manifesto? That would be bonkers, no? [ leave it Kelvin, go and be useful somewhere else ]

He hasn’t shifted policy. He will have to.

And he’s made it clear that he will, which makes Binners’ assertion all the more odd.

GLORIOUS NEWS, COMRADES!

https://twitter.com/Forces_TV/status/1330975000145383428?s=19

😀

So, no rethink? No change from a losing, pre-pandemic, pre-Brexit 2019 manifesto? That would he bonkers, no?

Absolutely: 2024 is not 2019. But as said upthread, there’s a real risk of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

And he’s made it clear that he will, which makes Binners’ assertion all the more odd.

Tenses. Back to school for you…

there’s a real risk of throwing out the baby with the bathwater

I agree.

Railways have been nationalised or at least their debts have.

Tenses. Back to school for you…

Binners claimed that Starmer would stick with Corbyn’s policy agenda. Starmer is on record saying that he will ditch it. That he hasn’t changed it yet is immaterial as there are no elections any time soon.

Many MPs that fit that vague and loaded description were pushed out of parliament into other roles (mayors etc)

That’s an interesting spin, and mostly untrue. The likes of Burnham left because they didn’t agree with Corbyn and thought it better to get out rather than stay in and snipe from the sidelines like most of their colleagues. I’ve a lot of respect for that even though I would have preferred him to stay and support the policy agenda. If only his right wing colleagues had done the same, labour could have gone into both the 2017 and 2019 elections with a united PLP all pulling in the same direction.

He said when he took over as leader that he’d stick with Corbyns policy agenda and since then has changed not one single aspect of that policy agenda

You were asked to cite examples of policy changes that have happened that have got you irate. All we have is the acknowledgment that the policy platform will change between 2019 and the next election. They may well, on balance, be policies that you and I prefer to 2019 (unlikely, but hey)… being angry about future unmade policy changes at this point is… well, I dunno what word to use…

labour could have gone into both the 2017 and 2019 elections with a united PLP all pulling in the same direction

But they didn’t… so… seek revenge and keep circling around the past leader and his political ineptitude over the EHRC report… or work to create a policy platform to unite behind… pick now.

he contends, arguing that the pandemic means that both Labour and the Tories “are going to have to fundamentally rethink what they want to offer the electorate in 2024”.

Thats just a truism, surely?

I don’t know if you noticed, but we’re about to crash out of the EU, which on top of Covid is going to plunge the country into a recession that is going to make the 1980’s look like a picnic.

This country is going to look like a very different place this time next year with mass unemployment and a trashed economy. To be referencing 2019 will be like referencing the 1950’s it’ll be so irrelevent.

I’d imagine (and certainly hope) that there will be clear water between Labour and the Tory policies at that point. Hyper-austerity from the Tory’s, as that is all they know, and hopefully a more Keynesian programme of infrastructure investment from labour. Which even as I type it sounds very Corbynite

So I just don’t understand why you’re having a thromby and getting your petticoats all ruffled

You were asked to cite examples of policy changes that have happened that have got you irate.

The problem there, if you meant to quote me and not Binners, is that I’m not irate, angry, irked or disgruntled. Just unsure why an absence of new policy to date is presented as evidence of anything at all.

I quoted binners… because you were trying to put words in his mouth that he did not use.

EDIT: this is going nowhere… Starmer has deserted us on policy by not changing policy.… what’s the point.

Thats just a truism, surely?

I don’t know if you noticed, but we’re about to crash out of the EU, which on top of Covid is going to plunge the country into a recession that is going to make the 1980’s look like a picnic.

This country is going to look like a very different place this time next year. I’d imagine that there will be clear water between Labour and the Tory policies at that point. Hyper-austerity from the Tory’s and a more Keynesian programme of investment from labour

You’ll note that at no point have I argued that Starmer should stick with the 2019 platform, regardless of circumstances. What should be in the new platform is the matter of debate here, and Starmer’s preferences are at the moment largely unknown.

I quoted binners… because you were trying to put words in his mouth that he did not use.

I don’t believe I did: stop presenting opinion as fact.

So.. what has Starmer done wrong up to now (rather than possibly in the future)…? Extra points for not mentioning he who we’re trying not to mention…

And whilst we’ve been talking Starmer enacts his latest blairite ruse to acquire dictatorial control of the party. Unity my arse!

Left members were just forced to walk out of the NEC meeting. The disregard for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership have undermined the governance of the NEC, and censored legitimate debate inside our Party. Young members don't deserve this

— Lara McNeill (@lara_eleanor) November 24, 2020

Today the entire left walked out of Labour’s NEC

We won’t stay silent on @Keir_Starmer’s factionalism any longer

Starmer personally lobbied to prevent the President of Fire Brigades Union becoming NEC Chair

The Union representing Grenfell Firefighers treated disgracefully

— Howard Beckett (@BeckettUnite) November 24, 2020

So.. what has Starmer done wrong…? Extra points for not mentioning he who we’re trying not to mention…

I see it’s groundhog day: scroll back to the first couple of pages and I was arguing that we would need to have some idea of Starmer’s vision in order to pass judgement. That’s still the case.

Today the entire left walked out of Labour’s NEC

What are the “entire Left” walking away from? Utterly depressing for those of us that want a proper left leaning government in our lifetime.

censored legitimate debate inside our Party

What has been censored?

I was arguing that we would need to have some idea of Starmer’s vision in order to pass judgement

I agree.

So what has Starmer done wrong up to now?

And then there’s this, which neatly sums up the situation. If Starmer’s aim was to replace Blair as the most unpopular leader among the membership then he seems to be succeeding. At least blair waited til he was PM before burning his bridges.

If you told Labour members that within months Keir Starmer would suspend Corbyn, drive every left winger out of shadow cabinet and split the NEC, he never would have won the leadership.

His personal approval ratings are tanking with Labour supporters because he lied to them.

— Ronan Burtenshaw (@ronanburtenshaw) November 24, 2020

It appears that ‘The left’ just staged a ‘walk out’ of a zoom call

Brilliant!! 😀

A Zoom walkout… bet that was an impressive statement

Keir Starmer would suspend Corbyn

Ah, so that is what Starmer has done wrong. I think I’ve got it now.

drive every left winger out of shadow cabinet

Oh, and Long-Bailey. I’d forgotten about that.

Have you put yourself on mute?

I think he must have lost his connection….

Hang on a minute… I’ve just read on Twitter that he’s apparently staged a walk out….

So what has Starmer done wrong up to now?

In terms of policy and vision he’s done nothing right or wrong, because he’s done nothing.

Managerially, he has mishandled the fallout from the ECHR report and is making a transparent power grab for the party machinery. From the posts above, the usual suspects here are content, but I’m pretty sure they were squealing when the boot was on the other foot.

What's the point of satirising the hard Left when Labour NEC had a 'virtual walkout' during an online away day.

— Geoff Norcott (@GeoffNorcott) November 24, 2020

I said that I thought he got it wrong as regards withdrawing the whip… but he had no good choices…

So, Corbyn screws up the Labour response to the ECHR… and then whichever of the bad options (support Corbyn, or suspend the whip) that leaves Starmer with results in the big pile of shit for him (and the party) to wade through… but the fact he can’t walk on that shit… is his fault?

So… what did Starmer get wrong? He had Corbyn’s inability to accept a report with legal findings to deal with. Is that it? If Corbyn had handled the publishing of the report as was required for the party, then at this point Starmer would have done no wrong? Do I have that right?

So… what did Starmer get wrong? He had Corbyn to deal with. Is that it?

I’ve answered your question so why are you repeating it?

So it’s not about any policy changes, it’s all about his handling as regards Corbyn, yes? To be clear?

I think the problem is the implication that Jeremy is fallible and therefore mortal.

So that can’t possibly be right. In fact, technically it’s heresy 😉

I was a staff member present at a Labour NEC meeting in the 1980’s held in the Boardroom at Walworth Road when Eric Heffer attempted to storm out. But instead of leaving the room he walked into the cupboard in the corner. Was there a digital equivalent in the NEC tantrum today ?

— Mike Gapes (@MikeGapes) November 24, 2020

it’s all about his handling as regards Corbyn

No it’s about him breaking the primary promise of his leadership bid to bring together both sides of the party. He’s manifestly failed to do that, his actions today in changing the NEC rules being the latest example. It’s not even really a left v right problem, it’s a membership vs PLP problem. You could take away the left/right political differences and you would still have a divided party.

He’s even attempted to ban members from talking about Corbyn’s suspension, which is ironic as it’s usually the left who are accused of acting like 20th century communist dictators.

Keir Starmer accused of threatening free expression with ban on discussing Corbyn suspension as left-wingers stage NEC walk-out https://t.co/g6ekwIR4dU

— Jon Stone (@joncstone) November 24, 2020

He’s manifestly failed to do that

I agree.

It’s not even really a left v right problem

I agree.

Is Mike Gapes seriously having a go at people walking out of something? 🙂