The difference being Kennedy was his own man and was a good operator and speaker, the whisky was a terrible shame. Sir definitely looks a bit jowly, fearful and glassy-eyed on occasions. Anyone know what he drinks?

It’s safer that way. It means they don’t have to confront the real world.

Who’s “they”?

The only political party in the past 40 years which has made an attempt to confront ‘the real world’ was labour under Corbyn

Utter.

Horse.

Shit.

So Starmer diluting the 2017/19 policies will also be Corbyn’s fault?

The changes that Starmer is making for the most part seem to be that policies need to be agreed in advance, that they need to be affordable, and they need to be easy to understand, and directed by the shadow treasury team. One of the issues identified by the post election review was that the almost daily announcing of more and more spending (the spending plans for pensions missed by middle aged women was one such, designed on the hoof, with apparently the sole aim of dominating that days news agenda) didn’t ring true with the sorts of voters who need to be persuaded that the Labour party can be trusted with the purse books*.

* the fact that most post-war Labour govts have been on the whole more fiscally sane that most Tory govts is utterly irrelevant here, people need to have their tightly held opinions changed, not told that what they think is bollocks.

Labour going into the last election didn’t have a manifesto as such, more like policy Tourette’s

Like a 13 year old with ADHD, who just drunk 2 cans of Red Bull, blurting out the next thing that came into their head.

Compared with the the single “policy” from the tory party who got elected with a massive majority

Who’s “they”?

I was wondering that. As it’s a response to a specific question then I presume “they” refers to socialists. Does that mean there’s a significant number of non socialists in the new and improved labour party? Does the poster count themselves as a non socialist?

Labour going into the last election didn’t have a manifesto as such

Well, this is provably nonsense. But the “unveiling” of some key policy announcements late in the day did give the impression that there was always more coming… I think a lot of voters were turned away by this and were easily led to believe that post election Labour policies would just keep moving if they won. The other UK wide parties didn’t really have manifestos at all. What little was in the Conservative document has already been thrown out.

I was wondering that. As it’s a response to a specific question then I presume “they” refers to socialists. Does that mean there’s a significant number of non socialists in the new and improved labour party? Does the poster count themselves as a non socialist?

Nice try to kick my point into the long grass with a bit of sophistry.

The ‘they’ here are the navel-gazing grudge bearers who’d rather feel safe arguing amongst themselves over the finer points of socialist doctrine than looking around them at a country that rejected Labour in favour of…..

A bumbling, lying, vodka-soaked fraud who hides in a fridge to avoid scrutiny and a hideously self harming core policy.

But no, keep convening the PFJ extraordinary general meetings if that’s what makes you feel safe, folks. It won’t do any good, of course, but it allows the comfort blanket to stay in place.

And I voted Labour last time. I did it because it was the most effective way I could register my ‘anybody but the Tories’ sentiment. But millions of people out there, who would have voted for a more centrist/corporate/credible or plain old ‘just not so easy to ridicule’ Labour leader, didn’t.

And now we are left with this bunch of arseholes in government and the Labour old guard are still more determined to damage the new Labour leadership than their actual opposition.

It’s pathetic. And it isn’t so much about principle as plain old peevishness and sour grapes.

Talking of the PFJ cult members, they started their usual Twitter campaign (do they ever inhabit the real world?) this morning in nauseatingly grovelling praise of their Glorious messiah with the hashtag #jeremycorbyn40facts

It’s fair to say that it’s not gone as they would have hoped. It’s worth checking out. There are some absolute gems on there. I think this is my favourite 😂

Jeremy can balance five bananas on his forehead while pointing at his imaginary parrot. #jeremycorbyn40facts pic.twitter.com/EMcNY9lurn

— Shady Dog (@DogShady) November 22, 2020

The fawning sycophancy from the fam club is even funnier in the usual creepy way. It’s proper North Korea stuff

Apparently “Starmer must go”…

The first motion of ‘no confidence’ in Sir Keir Starmer passes vote https://t.co/bu1H87RIdp via @Labourheartland

— Laura Alvarez (@LauraAlvarezJC) November 21, 2020

Yes, that is who you think it is.

I found that thanks to the “Twitter storm” … and then reading back through her stream it is non-stop nonsense, of the type I thought only loosely connected supporters of Corbyn’s on the fringes were spreading. Starmer has no chance of “unifying” the party. None at all.

You can’t unify a cult.

If they were American they’d now be stockpiling weapons.

Unhinged, the lot of them

Kelvin, further to your post…

Jeremy Corbyn's wife just shared a blog attacking Keir Starmer.

The blog was written by Paul Knaggs. Paul Knaggs was suspended by the Labour Party after saying Jews and Muslims seek to "dominate politics"

You couldn't make this up. pic.twitter.com/Od20lU1q01

— Alastair Thompson (@AlastairJT) November 22, 2020

If they were American they’d now be stockpiling weapons.

The guy about to stockpile weapons is Boris Johnson, with SKS’ approval.

Maybe we can do a nice swap deal.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/27/british-arms-exports-israel-new-record

Kelvin, further to your post…

Well, that’s me depressed about it enough for this year then. I apologise for thinking Starmer was wrong to withdraw the whip… I was naive about the battle he has ahead of him. What a pile of shit.

If you want to know what’s ahead then just read ‘Things Can Only Get Better’ by John O’Farrell.

It’s actually a very funny book, if just putting a brave face on it, of the last time the Militant Tendency made the Labour Party unelectable

Looks like grandad and his followers are determined to beat the 18 years of Tory rule they facilitated their last time out

Boris must wake up every morning and thank the lord for Corbyn and his cultists

Well, that’s me depressed about it enough for this year then. I apologise for thinking Starmer was wrong to withdraw the whip

Because of something his wife posted on twitter. Seems reasonable.

There’s another post on that guy’s Twitter about how great Priti Patel is. Guess he’s just part of the ‘real world’ too.

EDIT: I’m out of this, ‘till it stops being another Corbyn thread. Once he’s gone, I’ll come back and see how Starmer is getting on, if he’s stuck it out that is.

I had a quick look but didn’t see anything too wacky. Which posts are you referring to?

Gotta love the Corbyn apologists!

Impressive contortions and doublethink.

Corbyn is a bitter old man and he’d rather damage the party he’s supposedly part of than knuckle under and accept that he got it wrong.

What a saddo.

Because of lots of things his wife has put on Twitter.

Should he have controlled his woman better?

Should he have controlled his woman better?

Trying to distract from the core issue with a straw man again?

Ok. As you were everyone.

The core issue is what someone’s wife posts on twitter?

The core issue is what someone’s wife posts on twitter?

You aren’t half as good as you think you are at this ‘pushing out clouds of ink’ to distract from the core issue.

The core issue is that Labour were unelectable under Corbyn. This was proved in the only poll that matters. A general election. He lost by 80 seats to a fly-tipped sofa. A shambles who ran from scrutiny.

Corbyn got the boot and now his supposed ‘principles’ are an excuse to petulantly damage his successor. Because he is a sore loser and can’t accept it. Boo ****ing hoo.

Meanwhile, just as Labour should be pointing at the Tories and saying “look at this bunch of crooks and liars, and just wait until you see what THEIR Brexit is going to do to you”, Starmer is getting dragged into a petty little sideshow.

The tory press are loving it.

It’s impressive how class politics can get completely derailed by ‘identities’ – useful to the far right as well as sections of the left. It leads people to beat up the wrong enemies and sometimes cathartically beat themselves up, all very entertaining when viewed from above.

all very entertaining when viewed from above.

In the past, when politics had a shred of decency left, it could be viewed as an amusing sideshow.

However, in a little over a month, Johnson and his cronies are going to willingly do (split infinitive soz) massive damage to our economy.

With much of the electorate having the attention span of a goldfish, Labour should have one priority. Shine the spotlight on the Tories and Brexit. Emphasise that the utter cluster**** that is going to transpire is entirely down to them.

Corbyn is just helping the Tories (again) by providing an irrelevant sideshow the Tory media can play up to distract from what is about to happen. The fool.

I think you’ll find it’s the right that are making a sideshow of Corbyn. Corbyn and the left, however that’s defined, gets more attention and aggression than does Johnson. Are people spewing at the government for re-imposing austerity, spending £12bn EXTRA on arms, £12bn handed over to Serco, chumocracy? No. They’re going on about grandad, allotments, cults, 6th forms, identities, so not to worry.

The core issue is that Labour were unelectable under Corbyn

They were certainly unelectable with half their MPs against him and some actively wanting to lose the election. But that’s in the past, so whatever.

The person in charge now is Starmer and this mess is as much his creation as Corbyn’s. At what point does he have to take some responsibility?

Corbyn and the left, however that’s defined, gets more attention and aggression than does Johnson

This. I think that sadly many of the Labour right have more in common with Johnson than they do Corbyn.

They were certainly unelectable with half their MPs against him and some actively wanting to lose the election

They were certainly unelectable with half their MPs against him and some actively wanting to lose the election. But that’s in the past, so whatever.

Care to expand on that?

Just give me a couple of minutes to get a cuppa….

Should he have controlled his woman better?

Absolutely. She doesn’t seem to understand that politicians wives are not allowed a mind of their own and are there only to provide a bit of eye-candy and be seen and not heard. He should give her a slap next time she steps out of line.

And while we’re on the subject of stroppy women speaking out of turn, Leanne Wood, former leader of Plaid Cymru doesn’t seem to have read the script either.

https://twitter.com/LeanneWood/status/1330389706987679744?s=20

I rate Wood very highly. I’ve already replied to her on twitter though. Any chance of this thread not being about Corbyn any time soon?

It’s currently about how SKS and how he’s dealt with Corbyn, because SKS hasn’t really done anything else of note (apart from supporting the government spending billions on ‘defence’ I guess).

Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn…. it’s all about Corbyn. The relief flowing through Tory rank and file must be palpable.

I did in and out of this thread so apologies if this has been answered.

When when the AS report came out did Corbyn not show some humility and just say sorry? He could have easily said, I apologise for my failures as Labour leader as are highlighted in this report. I will work with KS to do all we can to rid the Labour party of this cancerous issue.

If he had done this it would have been a non story and would have helped unite the party and they could have gotten on with the job in hand which is holding this government to account?

What he has done is turn it around to try and be seen as the victim and has just created a larger mess than needs be, it has helped to widen the factions in the party and has given the Tories more ammunition. Its like he and his supporters would rather keep the Tories in power rather than just let go of some of their ideologies or at the very least water them down which would increase the prospects of a Labour government. Once in power they could help slowly drag the party back to the left once the general voting public realise that most of their policies are not communist nonsense and that they would actually benefit from most of them.
As it stands it seems to be an all or nothing approach which will inevitably lead to more years or Tory rule which is in no doubt worse than a centrist labour government that with luck could move back to the left.
I had hope for JC back in 2017 but after that it became clear he was never going to become PM, he should have let go of some of his principles and moved aside, then we might not be in such a crappy place.

Any chance of this thread not being about Corbyn any time soon?

What would you like to discuss? Top trumps on which Corbyn policies Starmer will ditch first? Actually, seeing as we’re in spending review week, what I’d like to see is him talking truthfully about the government debt and about how much of it is a mirage. He could go a long way towards funding everything he wants to do, and changing the narrative on debt, deficits and austerity by exposing the lie at the heart of our economic system. He won’t though, because when it comes down to it, he’s as much in hock to the establishment as the tories are. How much would you like to bet?

There is an obsession that the national debt must be repaid. Assuming it is properly calculated (and I have real doubt about that) it’s coming on for £2,100 billion. Knowing what makes this up is really important. Then we can decide if we really want to repay it. Stay with me….

— Richard Murphy (@RichardJMurphy) November 23, 2020

Any chance of this thread not being about Corbyn any time soon?

Well I guess it depends on if Starmer actually starts doing anything useful.
I am not holding my breath to be honest since his main approach at the moment seems to be failing at PMQ since Johnson can just ignore him and waffle on.

he’s as much in hock to the establishment as the tories are

For god sake, we have years of this bullshit. I think Starmer is just going to have to embrace the idea of letting the party split… and then let someone else rebuild from a lower memembership/supporter base after the split. Some of you seem to think the options are Corbyn or Tory… and no new leader is going to be able to bridge that gap, and win 40% of a general election vote. He’ll just have to hope he can hold onto enough of us “left” voters who are interested in getting rid of the Tories to vote Labour under Starmer… or whoever replaces him… because I don’t see him making it to the next election now. He’s going to be removed… or give up.

Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn…. it’s all about Corbyn.

Looking through this page, most of the comments about Corbyn seem to be coming from his critics.

Anyway, Starmer: the pitch is sailing by and I’m not convinced he’s going to take a swing at it. The occasional news report of victory of PMQs gets the usual suspects rubbing their thighs, but is going to make eff all difference at the ballot box.

I was totally up for giving Starmer a chance and thought he might make a good moderate electable unifier but it’s not going well is it.

And the fact that he describes himself as a Zionist, took money from pro Israel lobby groups and didn’t declare it, has approved government spaffing massive amounts on defence… then this Corbyn omnishambles… He’s lost me already tbh