Sir! Keir! Starmer!

Peter Mandelson is Jewish? Anyway McCluskey has been successful again at winding up his haters. Instead of talking about Mandelson’s money though he’d have been better off highlighting his links with Russian oligarchs and american paedophiles. A missed opportunity if ever there was one.

There is a strand of anti semitism in the left of the labour party, and it should have been rooted out much sooner, but it’s a shame that the labour centrists were more interested in weaponising it against Corbyn than they were in criticising a prime minister who calls black people grinning picanninies and Muslim women letterboxes.

Genuine anti semitism is to be reviled but there’s also a hefty campaign to conflate any even legitimate criticism of Israel as anti semitic. The difficulty is in the grey areas between the two.

Can we find something to say about him that isn’t a ‘trope’ or is he above criticism?

We can say his “contribution” in that Newsnight piece was as bad as anyone else’s. Again, not entirely his fault, but it couldn’t have happened without him being willing to throw useful rocks to be edited into the stoning. Historically… I hated his “comfortable with people getting filthy rich” line… and he long ago rowed back from it…

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/jan/26/mandelson-people-getting-filthy-rich

But the “counting your gold” comment is a very odd phrase to use. And I long ago stopped giving Len McCluskey the benefit of the doubt… I don’t think anyone should be by now. Backing him because you are on the left is entirely counterproductive. Labour needs rid of him.

Mandelson was an utter shit – a tory in the wrong party and did massive damage to labour

Well, Mandelson is one of the people that stopped me from voting Labour back then. Probably the key person. Now, the Left (I include my self there) need to acknowledge that McCluskey is keeping people away from Labour today. And how it can be any other way?!? Just listen to him! Stop taking sides… distance the party from him ASAP. Call him out for being the self serving game player and stirrer that he is.

Call him out for being the self serving game player and stirrer that he is.

Or just ignore him? Honestly most people haven’t got a clue who he is so why give him a platform?

Labour do need to disassociate themselves from his comments and actions. Many people rightly or wrongly still think of Carry On at Your Convenience when they think about Labour and Unions. It’s a myth kept alive by the right to good effect.

Or just ignore him?

I’ll pass that on to the media and press, and millions of voters.

Delete

Andy Burnham is doing a great job of taking on the Government.

Slaps down on the utter lameness of Starmer in this process. This is what an opposition should look like.

The government / BOE bought back £300 billion of bonds this year through Q/E. Covid has cost nothing in net terms. No tax increases needed. And that’s before the fact the money was simply paid out for covid – just like that.

They can absolutely afford it.

Absolute lying ideological ****.

He’s not bad that Burnham… shame that he had to leave the parliamentary party.

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 42% (+3)
LAB 36% (-3)
LDM: 8% (+1)

Via @SavantaComRes, 16-18 Oct.
Changes w/ 9-11 Oct.

— Election Maps UK (@ElectionMapsUK) October 21, 2020

Help.

Just where did the Tories get +3 from?

Did Starmer have good PMQs recently? I’m sure Jonathan Freedland said he did.

Maybe time to quit the long game – stop being forensic and start having a crack?

start having a crack?

Tune into politics occasionally, the opposition are attacking the government every day, in parliament and in the media. There’s a debate on in the commons right now that gives the public a clear dividing line… one that it is very easy for the public to step over the floor to Labour’s side… it’s almost a no brainer.

Always worth looking at a poll of polls to see trends…

https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/

What happened in April?

Just where did the Tories get +3 from?

Statistical noise.

Starmer shit at pmqs again. When will he start about Tory party corruption? Or if he’s scared to do that he could couch it as Tory’s wasting money on bad PPE deals.

This lot happened this week: ffs!

Russ (@RussInCheshire) Tweeted: 1. NHS staff were polled on whether, in recognition of their efforts to fight Covid 19, they would prefer to be given a badge or a snack box

2. It was reported 2 out of every 3 hospices will have to make redundancies. In a pandemic. https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1318525201282420736?s=20

Starmer shit at pmqs again. When will he start about Tory party corruption? Or if he’s scared to do that he could couch it as Tory’s wasting money on bad PPE deals.

The last opposition day debate was about exactly this, with strong contributions from across the Labour benches.

Maybe next week then?

It was last week.

Starmer shit at pmqs again

No, he wasn’t.
He is right to use his 6 questions in a very focussed way to expose johnson as incompetent.
Any questions about tory corruption will just be laughed off and batted away by johnson.
The same for PPE…we used the emergency provision in public sector procurement regulations to support the NHS and care homes.
Yes, I know that is bollocks but that is how johnson would respond.

PPE and other dodgy contract awards are, as you know, being challenged in the courts by the Good Law Project.

kelvin
Full Member
It was last week.

Why is he ignoring it then? Maybe there is a good reason?

The reason Boris is +3 is because Burnham was daft enough to put a figure on the rescue package. 65 million sounds a lot but is no where near enough to support the North during another lockdown and Boris knows this. He offers 60 million as a token gesture and the vast majority think he’s being reasonable even generous and Burnham is playing politics with COVID. I wish they’d sat down and realised the figure they would need would be too big to ask for in a lumper and instead negotiated an extra support package on an individual business basis.

Why is he ignoring it then?

He isn’t, you are.

The reason Boris is +3 is because Burnham was daft enough to put a figure on the rescue package. 65 million sounds a lot but is no where near enough to support the North during another lockdown and Boris knows this. He offers 60 million as a token gesture and the vast majority think he’s being reasonable even generous…

Check the period that poll was conducted over. I don’t think your narrative, even if it made sense, fits the timeline.

Keir hasn’t asked a question about it in pmqs. Why doesn’t he put Boris on the spot?

He’s probably waiting for the next calamity to occur

A week is a long time in Politics nowadays. Can you remember what we were discussing last week?

Keir hasn’t asked a question about it in pmqs. Why doesn’t he put Boris on the spot?

If you’re referring to PPE and other questionable contract awards, Starmer has 6 questions and he must use them as effectively as possible.
johnson knows there are legal actions being fronted by The Good Law Project; Starter knows the same and him weighing in now won’t add anything to the legal case(s) so he’s using his PMQ allocation judiciously to highlight johnson’s incompetence and inconsistency,
re-inforcing the message that johnson has lost control and doesn’t have a plan to regain it; that he is wilfully damaging the nation’s health and economy.
That is a far bigger issue than mis-use of public funds – and, yes, I know that the PPE scandal has caused deaths and is, in essence, a government approved fraud.
Starmer is, rightly, focussed on the bigger picture.

There is always another poll

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 40% (-1)
LAB: 40% (+1)
LDEM: 7% (-1)
GRN: 4% (-)

via @RedfieldWilton, 21 Oct
Chgs. w/ 07 Octhttps://t.co/4QV9FclMKI

— Britain Elects (@BritainElects) October 22, 2020

Is this part of the long term strategy?

Keir and cyclists

An interesting article by my former Labour MP, who lost his seat last December by 100 votes.

I was a red wall Labour MP – this is what Keir Starmer can learn from Andy Burnham

I think, like a lot of people (myself included), Starmer needs to start being a lot bolder and more visible and vocal in holding the government to account now. With the North in lockdown with no way out, the test and trace still a total shambles, and the debacle of free school meals, the Labour party need to be landing some blows now.

Any national unity and feeling of all being ‘in this together’ is long gone, so the labour party should start being a lot more vocal and pointing out the mess the government is making of all this. The reticence to be seen to ‘play politics’ surely no longer applies

Is this part of the long term strategy?

Keir and cyclists

Yeah I also just saw another news source and thought ‘when worlds collide’

BBC Kier collides with cyclist

Fortunately it sounds like a relatively minor incident.

Obviously trying to woo back the red wall Brexity Labour voters by tackling those pesky cyclists!

I’m very much with Binners on this now. Stop being reasoned. Put Boris on the rack* at PMQs and ask “what happened to the billions that hadn’t delivered the track and trace that you said was needed before schools could go back”, “when will we get a refund that will help pay for the furlough costs required because T&T didn’t deliver”, “could you have sorted the free school meals with that money you wasted”, “what is your plan to get us out of this mess that your incompetence has created before we risk deaths spiralling again you incompetent buffoon”

*I’m happy if he actually uses a proper rack btw

Absolutely. Now is the time for Starmer to kick De Pfeffel in the nads repeatedly and publicly.

This is a moment that will stick in the memories of your average voter. Emphasise the incompetence, the cronyism, repeatedly bring up Barnard Castle, repeatedly bring up the shonky PPE scandal, repeatedly bring up Dido Harding’s hopeless track record and current performance.

Now is also the time to make the Tories own the Brexit shitshow in the public perception. Try to paint the picture that better Brexits are/were available without ‘betraying the will of the people’ and not openly admitting that all Brexit variations are just a sliding scale of crapness. Avoid that big question and just keep banging on at what is actually unfolding and who is to blame.

Labour will never convince the true gammony nutters, but there are a lot of Leavers who now regret their vote. Glue that regret to what is going to happen in January.

He indicated left but turned right.

a proper rack

Which, incidentally, is one of the main reasons Jennifer Arcuri got all that public money gifted to her by Shagger Johnson.

He paid for servicing rendered.

Starmer also needs to start pointing out the obvious repetition of the same mistakes as this second wave strikes. Yes, first time around there “might” be a case that it was a new situation no one was ready for, but if he highlights all the warnings that were given in the run up to September, all the systems the government said had to be in place but aren’t, it firmly pins the blame on their blinkered refusal to learn from previous errors.

Stop being reasoned

Being reasoned is the best way to go at this time, because:

“what happened to the billions that hadn’t delivered the track and trace that you said was needed before schools could go back”, “when will we get a refund that will help pay for the furlough costs required because T&T didn’t deliver”, “could you have sorted the free school meals with that money you wasted”

Will be water off a ducks back to this lot, the public will either largely ignore it, or take the view that all Governments are corrupt…but this will ferment as we head further in to this Governments next four years and there will be more corruption. Some things you have to keep your powder dry for.

“what is your plan to get us out of this mess that your incompetence has created before we risk deaths spiralling again you incompetent buffoon”

Now this is fertile ground to hit them with, though do we want to get rid of Boris just yet?

Any national unity and feeling of all being ‘in this together’ is long gone, so the labour party should start being a lot more vocal and pointing out the mess the government is making of all this. The reticence to be seen to ‘play politics’ surely no longer applies

To all intents and purposes, the vote last week in Parliament was good..in a very bad way, the Tories would never support an opposition motion and Labour knew it, which was a devastating broadside into the Government, as this more than the above has really hit a raw nerve in the Country.

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BillMC
Full Member

He indicated left but turned right

Bravo!

+1
🙂

ElShalimo
Free Member

He’s probably waiting for the next calamity to occur

I think he is. But it doesn’t work when you’ve got this many disasters, because the newest one just pushes the oldest one out of the public eye prematurely. Just like covid, this government has managed to attain a state of constant sustainable disaster, and still sits fine in the polls. Disasters won’t cut it, that’s been obvious for a long time now. This is a government that was elected specifically to deliver a disaster ffs!

Just my opinion but I think Starmer’s approach of just pointing out when there’s a disaster ought to work, and in any sane political world would. But this isn’t a sane political world.