Viewing 40 posts - 201 through 240 (of 21,619 total)
  • Sir! Keir! Starmer!
  • convert
    Full Member

    I have alway said politicians should only be allowed to stand for parliament after a substantial career doing something else first so we have a parliament full of experience across industries, careers and sectors. To that end he certainly fits the bill as someone qualified for the role.

    Quietly optimistic.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Why? Leaving the EU is unutterably stupid. Thats a sensible position -0 rule nothing in and rule nothing out

    kiksy
    Free Member

    Why? Leaving the EU is unutterably stupid.

    Totally agree.

    However, a large chunk of key marginal seats do not. They are the ones that matter.

    Falling into the most basic trap of “Starmer wants to reverse Brexit” will lead to instant failure.

    Labour HAS to win back Brexit voters.

    ransos
    Free Member

    You need to move on, and hope the new team can appeal to the country, not just you.

    You should be congratulated for shoehorning at least two false assumptions in one short sentence.

    boomerlives
    Free Member

    I have always said politicians should only be allowed to stand for parliament after a substantial career doing something else first

    Thatcher the Chemist? Blair the lawyer? Major the Insurance man?

    It’s not a great indication of quality really.

    Labour HAS to win back Brexit voters.

    Laboour has to appreciate that a majority of it’s support is from Brexit-ers. Corbyn couldn’t grasp that, but BoJo certainly did.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Laboour has to appreciate that a majority of it’s support is from Brexit-ers.

    Cite? My understanding is the opposite but the labor brexiteers are concentrated in a few constituencies and losing those votes was enough to lose the seats as a swing of 5 – 10% was enough

    kiksy
    Free Member

    Laboour has to appreciate that a majority of it’s support is from Brexit-ers.

    30% is the estimate of Labour Brexit voters, not the majority.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48039984

    However these Brexit voters are in the key marginals.

    Corbyn couldn’t grasp that, but BoJo certainly did.

    Corbyn was more pro Brexit until people (such as Starmer, Watson etc) pushed him towards a more remain stance. I’d say Corbyn did understand that, but buckled under the pressure eventually. My fear is that it’s those people who pushed will now see Starmer as an opportunity to reopen the debate

    boomerlives
    Free Member

    Corbyn was pro-Brexit, but couldn’t bear to politically distance himself from his own view, despite it being a major difference to the Tory policy. It cost him.

    Despite all his protestations, it was a binary GE in December, and he tried to appeal to both sides, and ended up alienating both instead.

    My understanding is the opposite

    All the “Labour Heartland” areas that went Tory for the first time in forever. Why, if not that?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Boomerlives – do you understand how FPTP actually works?

    gauss1777
    Free Member

    Tj:

    For me with Long Bailey its not about her capability, its about her knowledge and understanding. She just reminds me of the loony left from the 80s. All slogans and purity and stating what is wanted to be heard in the circles she lives in with zero knowledge of the real world

    Ah, count me in as an idiot too. I have just watched a couple of interviews with her and I probably stand to the left of her! (I loved Michael Foot). There’s nothing wrong with purity in my view. Perhaps you prefer Tory slogans like ‘protect the NHS’? There is no getting around, slogans are powerful. Something perhaps Corbyn was weak on, he tended to stick to the issue and not resort to trite soundbites. As to knowledge of the real world, that is likely due to perspective – maybe you’ve bought one to many Tory lies?!

    I’d give Sir Keir a 6/10 on the Marr show today. I like a lot of what he said, but it was difficult to tell what he really thought. In attempting to win over the ‘centre ground’, he may well lose my & others support. We’ll see.

    ginsterdrz
    Free Member

    I’m definitely centrist and KS has immediately inspired me to join the LP (barring my lame MP). I think the majority of the UK are liberal thinking centrists.

    PR will also encourage more people to be involved and vote if they think it will count.

    As a former blue voter it makes me sick to see people like Philip Green asking for bailouts after paying himself a £1.2billion dividend. Branson is in the same boat, sues NHS, billionaire but wants bailout. The list is long.

    We’ve gone too far right.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Guass – its that she spouts stuff that is obvious nonsense because its the “right” answer in her little circle of righteousness. Not that its the right answer in the real world.

    dissonance
    Full Member

    I think the majority of the UK are liberal thinking centrists.

    A cursory look at the Lib Dems shows this is clearly not the case.
    The centrists are the swing voters not the majority (this is also leaving aside the definition of centrist).
    The problem with chasing them is you leave large amounts of the country feeling unrepresented and looking for alternatives. You then end up with things like brexit where people vote for a change, any change, since they feel utterly unrepresented by the politicians.

    gauss1777
    Free Member

    Guass – its that she spouts stuff that is obvious nonsense because its the “right” answer in her little circle of righteousness. Not that its the right answer in the real world.

    Can you give me a couple of examples?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    When asked about Corbyns leadership she said 10/10.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Chasing ‘centrists’ means little really. It’s pretty empty. Unless you are one of those Labour people who thinks voters are either socialists or centrists that is. If it means chasing non-socialists, then that absolutely does need to happen. Getting people who don’t identify as socialists to vote for you is essential if you want to be in power again. How you do that is the hard bit. There seems to be some obvious things to avoid though.

    Oh, Corbyn got me voting Labour… the 2017 general election manifesto was much stronger than the previous effort. And yet Starmer doesn’t put me off, and I have no idea why he’d put any other left wing person off, and with the LibDems all but gone, there is the opportunity for the party to be the natural vote for everyone (in England at least) if and when they grow weary of the charlatans they voted into office in 2019.

    Starmer seems we’ll placed political to keep left wing voters, and attract other voters to Labour. But does he have the campaigning skills and ruthlessness that are needed to win an election? I fear not. I hope so.

    gauss1777
    Free Member

    When asked about Corbyns leadership she said 10/10.

    Seriously, you’d condemn her for that?

    kelvin
    Full Member

    It was a dumb thing to say, if you ever want to win over voters who Corbyn scared off.

    boomerlives
    Free Member

    spouts stuff that is obvious nonsense because its the “right” answer in her little circle of righteousness

    *spits tea over keyboard*

    dazh
    Full Member

    It was a dumb thing to say, if you ever want to win over voters who Corbyn scared off.

    You do realise that she wasn’t standing in a general election and trying to win over swing voters don’t you? She was standing in a labour leadership election trying to win voters who previously had overwhelmingly voted for Corbyn, so maybe not dumb at all?

    And yet Starmer doesn’t put me off, and I have no idea why he’d put any other left wing person off

    Agreed. Many leftwingers, myself included, voted for him on the basis that he has promised to maintain the radical progressive policy agenda. I suspect a lot of the suspicion from the minority on the left is a reaction to the assumption of those on the right that he is ‘their man’. I think the right of the party in time will be more disappointed than the left. My question if that happens is what they will do when they realise he’s not Blair 2.0?

    kelvin
    Full Member

    You do realise that she wasn’t standing in a general election and trying to win over swing voters don’t you?

    If the last few years should have taught Labour politicians anything, is it that things you say before you become leader do not magically vanish once you are leader. It was a dumb thing for her to say and let people hang around her neck if she had become leader. When you’re preaching to the converted, you need to remember everyone else can hear you.

    Anyway, I was standing up for her before, because more generally she impressed/surprised me during the leadership campaign, but I can’t think how anyone can defended that comment, even if it was off the cuff, or supposed to be jokey. It was politically naive in the extreme.

    convert
    Full Member

    Thatcher the Chemist? Blair the lawyer? Major the Insurance man?

    It’s not a great indication of quality really.

    Thatcher first stood for parliament at 25 and was an MP by 34.
    Blair first stood for parliament at 29 and was an MP by 30
    Major was a local councillor by 21 though admittedly was not an MP until 36.

    Starmer had a ‘proper’ job until the age of 52. That’s an entirely different situation.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    [Childish sniggering]

    [/Childish sniggering]

    kelvin
    Full Member

    (Old) Radio 4 interview with him on now is very interesting.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Gauss – yes because its a stupid thing to say. I liked Corbyn but his leadership skills were not great. Saying something so obviously false is daft. Contrast with how Starmer answered

    Same as when RLB was asked about using nukes she said of course she would – now thats not an answer to her circle – thats for the right wing press. Again contrast with how Sturgeon answered that.

    She just comes over to me terribly reminiscent of the leftist splitists of the 80s – who I spent a fair amount of time with. All mouth and no thought. too interested in how it sounds to her audience and not with what the truth is

    boomerlives
    Free Member

    Starmer had a ‘proper’ job until the age of 52. That’s an entirely different situation.

    Ah, I missed the bit where you said they had to be at it for 25+ years for your point to be valid

    tjagain
    Full Member

    As regards left and right labels – I would see Starmer as being properly centrist – thats centrist as in centre of the party not “centerist” as in the right of the party who really should be in other parties.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    He’s left wing. But also very capable. Not sure the public will prefer capable to fun and irreverent though (current PM). Please Britain, prove me wrong.

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    In attempting to win over the ‘centre ground’, he may well lose my & others support. We’ll see.

    To those with this view, do you think Labour have any prospect of power otherwise?

    And as for the calibre of non-career politicians, I’d say they were “better” than those in power for the last decade.

    convert
    Full Member

    Ah, I missed the bit where you said they had to be at it for 25+ years for your point to be valid

    I thought that was implicit and relatively obvious. Yes, for a clarity – a fulsome if not complete career. Be that a teacher, a merchant seaman, a scientist or in the military. That ability to bring a career’s worth of insight with enough time at it to be able take the long view. A paper round or a first job after graduation does not cut it.

    zippykona
    Full Member

    Will dumbojo have to call him Sir?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Kelvin. Left wing on a national scale but centre of the labour party the so called centrists or moderates in the labour party are right on the right wing edge of the party

    I also see him as a bit of a technocrat

    kelvin
    Full Member

    He’s left wing. And capable. The technocrat angle comes in because he has what it takes to run things, unlike his processor.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I didn’t say technocrat was a wrong thing to be.

    I see him as a very good choice. My only doubt is how well he can connect with the public at large.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I agree.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I suspect he will come over very well in debate with Johnson.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Still needs a voice coach.

    nicko74
    Full Member

    Honestly, Starmer is a ray of light in this godawful sh*tshow. 24 hours into the job and he’s already said more sensible things about coronavirus than the government or opposition have managed in 6 weeks…

    kimbers
    Full Member

    good interview with nick Robinson from 2 years ago (b4 he was leadership candidate) on radio 4 earlier

    Suspect he’d be more guarded in an interview now

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p060m3mz

    ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    I gather Gardiner and Lavery have both gone from the shadow cabinet, sounds like Gardiner was sacked.

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