Sir! Keir! Starmer!

lol

lol

Very odd because unless you’re very rich, a large landowner or CEO/director of a large business then the tories are almost certainly the wrong party to represent your interests. The reason they win is becausee a significant proportion of the electorate are too stupid to identify what is in their best interests, or are too blinded by their prejudices to look beyond the dog whistle issues.

Or fooled by the constant propaganda

Yeh I get that a lot on this forum. Hope the superiority makes your Sunday better for you.

Thanks but it is not just Sunday, I care about the plight of others every day of the week. Something the tory doesn’t have to bother with.

Good answer kerley

Same as on the scottish thread – if you don’t care about others you do not see the good lefties do

The 2020 Tories represent virtually nothing that the 80s/90s/noughties Tories did.

They have been parasitised by a populist nationalist movement which is designed to appeal to the hard of thinking whilst actually enabling a last-chance heist on a country in long term decline.

The job of any responsible UK government was to arrest that decline as much as possible by selling off the family silver as slowly as possible for as high a price as possible. Unfortunately the 2016 barely disguised racist/xenophobic tantrum ‘referendum result’ ****ed all notions of sense and enabled these crooks to take their opportunity. And all the while they are laughing behind their hands and in private at the ordinary people who vote for them. It is a joke that really never wears thin for them.

Thanks but it is not just Sunday, I care about the plight of others every day of the week. Something the tory doesn’t have to bother with.

I really wished I could be arsed to list what I have done and continue to do for other people. Year in year out I’ve helped so many people selflessly it’s unreal.

But because I don’t follow the STW lefty rabid brigade I must be a heartless racist fat cat hahaha.

*smells rat, then realises that this thread seems to be another dog whistle for some people *

Very odd because unless you’re very rich, a large landowner or CEO/director of a large business then the tories are almost certainly the wrong party to represent your interests. The reason they win is becausee a significant proportion of the electorate are too stupid to identify what is in their best interests, or are too blinded by their prejudices to look beyond the dog whistle issues.

See, I find this amazing. Because the majority do not see things your way they must automatically be stupid, too stupid to know whats good for them, or are prejudiced.

That’s quite a complex.

I know plenty of Tory voters who give back more to society, especially the most needy, through their hardwork, time and effort than most people do. They just don’t see that we could all help others more by having a government that gives a shit like they do.

Can we get this back to Starmer? There’s no chance that he, or any other Labour politican, will be winning over Brads to vote for them any time soon… is there Brads?

But because I don’t follow the STW lefty rabid brigade I must be a heartless racist fat cat hahaha.

So if not a fat cat (and I don’t think anyone thought you were based on your contributions on here), what attracts you to the tories over labour? Presumably their competence? 🙂

voting tory makes you culpable in the tens of thousands of deaths they deliberately caused and the millions whose lives have been blighted

And yes – the deaths as a result of the cuts were deliberate in that they knew it would happen

Bevan is still appropriate today

“That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin”

The 2020 Tories represent virtually nothing that the 80s/90s/noughties Tories did.

Nah, I’m not having that. They’re no different, they’ve always been like this. They’re just more open/brazen nowadays.

There was nothing cuddly about Thatcher and her ilk!

Okey doke.

I will vote for whoever I think will do the job that needs done at that time. I’m not dyed in any wool.
There was no chance anyone with half a brain was voting for the 70’s throwback that was Corbyn and his ilk.
Imagine Abbot having a position in an actual government?. Doesn’t bear thinking about.

So in answer to the above there may well be plenty chance that the right person may sway me away from the Conservatives.
Not at the moment though.
I’m not some rich (ahem) playboy developer either and the majority of Tory voters aren’t.
I’m not a Xenophobe either. There are people I don’t like, for various reasons but I’m sure most folk are the same.

If it makes you all feel better, I hate the Mail, reading the Sun gives you cancer and I like Idles hahaha.

I’m not some rich (ahem) playboy developer either and the majority of Tory voters aren’t.

I think other people have made that point for you.

What would it take for a Labour leader to win you over?

There was no chance anyone with half a brain was voting for the 70’s throwback that was Corbyn and his ilk.
Imagine Abbot having a position in an actual government?. Doesn’t bear thinking about.

The vast majority of the country shared your opinion on that. Hence having a Tory government. Rather than any enthusiasm for Boris, the alternative just looked even less appealing. The choice we were offered at the last election was ‘would you like your huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread?’

Nah, I’m not having that. They’re no different, they’ve always been like this. They’re just more open/brazen nowadays.

There was nothing cuddly about Thatcher and her ilk!

Thatcher was terrible but at least you knew where you stood. You may not like it (I hated it!) but you knew what she was going to do and she was horribly proficient at doing it.

These lot are liars, swindlers and con artists. They say one thing then do the opposite. They obstruct democracy at every turn. Most of all they are utterly incompetent, morally bankrupt and completely Corrupt.

I honestly think that Thatcher would take one look at this lot and would be horrified that this is what the Tory party had become. I think she’d be appalled that someone like Boris Johnson could’ve PM, and I can imagine what she’d make of having someone like Dominic Cummings dictating policy

They are so much worse than she was, on so many levels. And that’s quite some benchmark

What would it take for a Labour leader to win you over?

Good question and one I would have to think about.

Edit to cut out a long spiel about the NHS

Not getting into it on this thread really, folk don’t want it to drift and I would be drifting it.

Not getting into it on this thread really, folk don’t want it to drift and I would be drifting it.

It’s a thread about the current Labour leader and the question is what would a Labour leader need to do to win you over, so it doesn’t seem much like thread drift to me.

It isn’t because you actually have no idea, is it? Or perhaps some of the reasons may not be politically correct?

It isn’t because you actually have no idea, is it? Or perhaps some of the reasons may not be politically correct?

See that ? Is that you just being rude, or ignorant or both ?

What part of your shitty attitude would encourage me to reply ?

What part of your shitty attitude would encourage me to reply ?

I thought goading might be worth a shot. Nothing else has actually made you enunciate what it is that you actually want. So I’m left speculating.

Oh, and the speed of your response after nearly an hour of trying to slip away from having to give an outline of your reasons makes me suspect you like a bit of provocation….

Yes very good.
You probably spend too much time on the internet I think.

I did type out a rather lengthy reply mainly about the poor way the NHS is run and what a leader could do about it , just as one example, but there have a been a couple of comments about keeping the thread on track so I edited it out.

You give me no inclination to retype it all.

What would it take for a Labour leader to win you over?

This is such a key question, and arguably what this whole thread revolves around.

Well put Kelvin.

Good question and one I would have to think about.

Please answer, and anyone else reading this thread that hasn’t/didn’t vote Labour.

The better we understand this the more bridges can be built

You give me no inclination to retype it all.

Yeah, right-o.

🥱

I used the NHs as one example.

It is an organisation rife with money wasting. Bad contracts, bad staff , bad management.

Labour have made it clear that their answer is to spend more, this is a total waste of time and money.
The NHS needs a boot up the hole. People need to be put in place that can actually run a business , negotiate contracts and hold people responsible for providing what they are paid for.
This goes right to the roots, not just the trust managers, but the kitchen staff as well.
I know an NHS manager and the tales are ridiculous.

The Tories aren’t doing it either but at least have the balls to say endless pits of money won’t solve it, even though they have increased NHS funding by enormous amounts (not enough for labour though eh?)
If a labour leader said they would re-organise and manage the NHS properly to correctly use the money it is given to ensure it was correctly funded, that that would be a policy I would admire.

But they won’t. They will pander to the masses who simply hate anything Tory and want the opposite done.

Yeah, right-o.

There you go. I retyped so you try being less of an arse. Fair swap?.

Enjoy checking this thread out every few weeks.

55 pages now. No ideas. No humour. No hope.

I love that the thought of Abbot having a cabinet position made you shit your pants and vote Tory…for what? The desire to have intellectual heavyweights like…
Dominic “Great Britain is an island? Eh?” Raab
Liz “The” Truss
Priti “it’s about having a deterrent…” Patel
Gavin “guns on tractors” Williamson
James “Clever”ley?

Yeah, I can see where you’re coming from brads.

To me, she seems like breathing and standing upright are a challenge.

she seems like breathing and standing upright are a challenge.

That pretty much sums up Boris. If he were a Labour politician the press would have totally eviscerated him by now. His totally absent grasp of facts and habitual lying have become the norm for the government.

If a labour leader said they would re-organise and manage the NHS properly to correctly use the money it is given to ensure it was correctly funded, that that would be a policy I would admire.

The NHS is one of the largest and most well-funded organisations in the world, with millions of employees operating across a huge number of disciplines serving people with a massive quantity and diversity of needs. It’s never going to be perfect, for obvious reasons. The scale of the problem of ‘managing the NHS’ is so huge it can’t be solved by a single policy, or a single government in a single parliamentary term.

Presumably you think it should be privatised, as that is the clear implication of your wish for it to be ‘properly managed’? Have you seen how that is working out for test and trace? Or the care industry? Or pretty much any other service or utility which has been privatised? 12 billion for test and trace and they use a spreadsheet. And yet you think these grasping idiots can run an organsiation with millions of staff and an annual budget of nearly half a trillion?

You might as well be asking labour to promise world peace and free unicorns for everyone.

There you go. I retyped so you try being less of an arse. Fair swap?.

I’ll try, but I can be a right arse.

Tell you what I will agree but only if I can point out the irony of:

You probably spend too much time on the internet I think.

Coming from someone who replied in about 30 seconds flat to a comment on his post that was nearly an hour old.

Pot. Kettle. Etc.

@dazh

Presumptions .
No I don’t want it privatised, just run properly. regardless of size.
As for the rest, I was asked and was under no illusions that the mob on here would ridicule any reply. But it wasn’t you I was replying to so hey ho.

Tell you what I will agree but only if I can point out the irony of

Yeh, you can have that one. I’d have pounced on it as well, 🙂

NHS needs a boot up the hole.

The Tories have been in power for 27 of the last 40 years so who is more likely to have put it there?

increased NHS funding by enormous amounts

Compared to when and on what basis? Pure £- inflation cancover that, doesn’t necessarily mean increased service/ treatments.

With a growing & ageing population then of course spend will increase.

I agree there are inefficiencies- I worked at a dental supplier- prices from region to region varied depending on how good the respective NHS trust buyers were.

But of course if it was centralised to use bulk buying then that would be seen as too much like communist like state control. I’ve worked for plenty of plcs and they can be just as inefficient.

My wife is patient-facing NHS and she has many a story to tell with regards to waste, blagging, failing upwards etc.

But the most egregious examples of waste most often include the likes of Serco and their contractors rinsing trusts and charging the earth for basic maintenance jobs. Jobs that are more often than not done to a substandard level and result in further expensive callouts.

Being economical with resources is very often essentially left to the conscience of the individual nhs staff members. Add to this the fact that many patients and relatives etc are a massive entitled pain the arse and waste is inevitable.

There have been two examples I can remember in the last few months where multiple members of staff have had to be present or do unnecessary cleaning up because patients have been selfish and/or totally unreasonable. And they have no security staff. These are only the examples I can remember her mentioning.

Edinburgh sick kids.

Nuff said.

Some should be lined up against the wall for that fiasco.

I get that there is no easy answer, but really, that’s just one example of why I haven’t voted labour.
As I have said, I am actually disappointed that Starmer hasn’t turned out as I hoped.
A proper robust opposition is a must have. We don’t have.

Brads

See, I find this amazing. Because the majority do not see things your way they must automatically be stupid, too stupid to know whats good for them, or are prejudiced.

Brads

There was no chance anyone with half a brain was voting for the 70’s throwback that was Corbyn and his ilk.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

the NHS especially in Scotland actually is one of the most efficient healthcare systems in the world with far lower management costs than almost any other.

Poor quality management is an issue but as for the mess its in – that is totally the tories fault

woking in the NHS as I have done for over 40 years I can tell yo that under labour when funding goes up it gets better and under the tories it gets worse dure to cuts adn stupid management. did you realise that in england 10% of all nhs budget goes on administering the fake internal market?

Its also incredibly cheap for what it does