Viewing 40 posts - 20,041 through 20,080 (of 21,134 total)
  • Sir! Keir! Starmer!
  • kelvin
    Full Member

    The Isreal/Gaza thing is a complete red herring, as far as this thread is concerned. It’s the same people attacking Labour as it has been for years now.

    And if it gets as far as unseating Labour MPs, well that’s great if it means another independent voice, or someone with policies closer to their own in parliament… if it just means more Tory MPs… well… frustrating as that is… you have to let them get on with it. That’s UK politics. A divided opposition letting the Tories rule on minority support is one of the “joys” of our demographics and voting system. Where the Tories will take us next if given a chance… place your bets, if you can afford that gamble… many can not.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    reality is Netanyahu and Israel probably have no idea who Starmer is, let alone why him calling for a ceasefire would mean anything to them.

    So you don’t agree at all with Starmer when he claims that it is absolutely critical that Labour doesn’t call for a ceasefire?

    I can’t believe the level of criticism that Starmer gets on this thread, and from all sides.

    Btw I bet they also had no idea who the previous leader of the Labour Party was.

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    You’re right, seems pointless to vote labour in, you’ve already worked out what they’ll do over a 5 year term, might as well stick with Sunak, Cameron et al and just slowly go from centre right to further right

    I haven’t worked anything out.  I’ve just listened to what they’ve said they’re going to do (or more likely not do).

    The UK is going to go further right if people insist on only voting for centre right parties (like Labour) or far right parties (like the Tories and Reform).

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    The Isreal/Gaza thing is a complete red herring, as far as this thread is concerned.

    You do realise that a third of Labour MPs went against Starmer and vote for a ceasefire, don’t you?

    I doubt any of them post on this thread, or bother to read it.

    I am not sure why you want to dismiss the greatest rebellion and crises under Starmer’s leadership as a “red herring”.

    And who has just brought up this red herring onto this thread?

    argee
    Full Member

    The UK is going to go further right if people insist on only voting for centre right parties (like Labour) or far right parties (like the Tories and Reform).

    Ah right, so really it’s just centre right for labour, and now, centre right for the tories with the recent changes, does seem pointless even voting if the outcome is all but assured either way.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    You do realise that a third of Labour MPs went against Starmer and vote for a ceasefire, don’t you?

    I’ve listened to some of those MPs, and find myself agreeing with them. People with integrity, still working to defeat the Tories and wanting to start the long difficult process of changing the course the country is on.

    But this thread is just the same few people attacking Starmer and others in Labour over and over again… nothing new to add, just looking for an angle to attack Labour on. Not improve the governance of this country. Not improve the policies of the Labour Party. Not improve the lives of anyone in the UK currently struggling day to day, and in the longterm. Just moan about those who are the only ones who could be in a position to make a difference soon… labelling them as failures before they’ve had the chance of a single day in office as a UK government (something that still might not ever happen, if enough people can be convinced not to give them a chance).

    argee
    Full Member

    But this thread is just the same few people attacking Starmer and others in Labour over and over again… nothing new to add, just looking for an angle to attack Labour on.

    They do have an argument though, with labour being centre right now, would them coming into power benefit the country, or just cause more upheaval with more of the same?

    I’m also starting to think that Starmer needs to have a Bono moment, and maybe do a press conference calling for a ceasefire whilst clicking his fingers every few moments, what the middle east desperately need is more white saviours from around the world to come and fix their woes, from a safe distance of course.

    brownperson
    Free Member
    ernielynch

    Full Member

    A crushing defeat for Labour in Newham yesterday:

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1838491/Labour-London-vote-collapses-Palestine-Starmer#amp-readmore-target

    The crisis which the ongoing genocide in Gaza has caused Starmer now goes beyond the sole issue of calling for a ceasefire, the whole moral integrity of the Labour Party is now being questioned.

    The by-election material shown in the Express article also refers to social and financial justice. Starmer is losing grip of both the agenda and the narrative.

    In the last two to three weeks politics local to me changed very dramatically with two completely new organisations springing up.

    What happened in Newham is a repeat of what happened in Tower Hamlets, multiple times. A large swathe of the local electorate becoming disillusioned and feeling unrepresented by Labour, so exercising their democratic rights and showing their dissatisfaction at the ballot box. Many people in those boroughs have expressed deep concern about the situation in Gaza, as they did with the illegal wars waged by Tony Blair, yet their concerns have clearly fallen on deaf ears. Well, if you want people’s votes, it’s a good idea not to ignore them, or dismiss them as unimportant. See; one Gordon Brown.

    The Labour Party is meant to stand for things like peace, equality and freedom. It has within its own charter, a stated commitment to fight racism. But the truth is, that this is clearly not much of a concern for Starmer and the leadership; they have taken the brown vote for granted, and surprise surprise it’s now come back to bite them on the arse. But they haven’t learned their lesson; they were humiliated by George Galloway, who manipulated local anger toward Blair’s illegal wars (which many people in Tower Hamlets, myself included, saw as part of a wider move to demonise Islam and create a new enemy for right-wing populism to rail against), and lost not once, but twice, to Luthfur Rahman. If you can lose twice to someone of the utter ineptitude as Luthfur Rahman, then you must surely realise you are doing something wrong?

    My personal fear is that if Labour were somehow to lose the next GE, that the right of the party will scapegoat such minority communities, to deflect from their own failings. Which will further embolden the far right even more. I really do hope the tories are ousted as soon as possible, but I’m not going to hold my breath that much, if anything, will change. I just hope I, and millions of others, are wrong. So far, signs aren’t very good in that respect.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    But this thread is just the same few people attacking Starmer and others in Labour over and over again…

    And it’s the same few people moaning over and over and over again about how don’t like other people’s comments. If you disagree just make your point and move on, what is the point of constantly complaining when it obviously isn’t going to make any difference?

    You obviously believe that Starmer is above criticism, others don’t necessarily agree, and some people on stw won’t vote the same as you, shocking as that might be. Deal with it 💡

    BillMC
    Full Member

    Let’s tidy up at least one bit of nonsense, it’s Starmer who’s been attacking Labour.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Or, you know, vote for someone who will actually do what you ask.

    Crazy, I know, would never work.

    Apart from in Scotland of course but as we all know that doesn’t count.

    vazaha
    Full Member

    Do you, genuinely, think that a Labour led Government, under Starmer’s leadership, would be worse than five more years of this?
    Worse than, not ‘as bad as’?
    Things, dare i say, can probably get better…

    kerley
    Free Member

    Do you, genuinely, think that a Labour led Government, under Starmer’s leadership, would be worse than five more years of this?

    It would be better, not even worse. The problem people have, me included, is that Starmer is failng to actually be Labour which is very disappointing as he could have stayed with his more Labour like pledges and still be in the position he is now but has thrown that away to try and get those tory votes.

    The only hope is that his strategy gets him the tory votes in the key seats while not losing Labour votes in other seats which enables him to win the election and then have a bit of a change of heart and rather than do worse things than promised (tory party) do better things than promised. Does anyone really care (not pedantic political nerds) what was promised if any changes not mentioned in manifesto are generally seen as for the better

    rone
    Full Member

    The argument about Starmer only being slightly better than the Tories is not good enough.

    He’s allowing the country-wide drift to the right, and potentially encouraging even more deprivation over the long term by giving a signal to the Tories that their economic model (and other nasty concepts)  is the correct one.

    If you believe there is a benefit to  current Labour replacing current Tory – yep fine. But if you detest what the Tories have done then following the path of Conservatism just to get elected is utterly doomed because the policies are terrible, and you will come full circle.

    There are so many good arguments about fixing things that attract public support – why take his current path other than you want to encourage a conservative environment?

    Centrists will never see this until it’s on top of them. There is no push back from the effects of Thatchery ideas until we push back against them.

    So that leaves us with the idea that once he’s in power he will do some sort of left-wing gymnastics.

    Why would he?

    Not only this but Labour refuse to use the power of the state – because the Tories have shown them how to do things badly!

    That’s the current narrative, and it’s shockingly inept.

    zippykona
    Full Member

    The tories are worse for the country .
    Labour ( in reality Starmer’s version of the Labour Party ) will be worse for me personally.
    I really don’t want either.

    kerley
    Free Member

    Labour ( in reality Starmer’s version of the Labour Party ) will be worse for me personally.

    From the very few things he has given any clue about what things will be worse for you personally?

    johnx2
    Free Member

     what is the point of constantly complaining when it obviously isn’t going to make any difference?

    I dunno. Maybe it’s your idea of fun?  😁

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Do you, genuinely, think that a Labour led Government, under Starmer’s leadership, would be worse than five more years of this?

    But hoping that you get a reach around whilst you’re getting **** is a shit reason to vote for someone. Why not vote for someone that isn’t out to **** you in the first place?

    johnx2
    Free Member

    Why not vote for someone that isn’t out to **** you 

    Why not make the case for whoever you think that is?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    IN Scotland ( where squirrelking is) labour or tory will make little difference. Starmer thas committed to tory spending limits so no more money for Scotland and Starmer as ruled out as too expensive numerous things the Scots government have done on their limited and basically fixed budget.

    so here labour or tory will make little differnce. No return to the EU, No increase in spending and no increased democracy – the three key things to make the UK more prosperous

    Also Scotland will not return very many Tory MPs if any – so not voting labour does not let tories in.

    zippykona
    Full Member

    From the very few things he has given any clue about what things will be worse for you personally?

    We have recently won a battle against a housing development on local green belt land.
    No one wanted it except for a few corrupt councillors.
    Starmer has declared war on us nimbys.
    Our green spaces will be under attack.

    johnx2
    Free Member

    ^^^ yeah, the actual position: …

    Speeding up the planning for critically important infrastructure by updating all national policy statements – which set out what types of projects the country needs – within the first six months of a Labour government.

    Fast-tracking the planning process for priority growth areas of the economy, such as battery factories, laboratories, and 5G infrastructure

    ensuring local communities get something back by providing businesses and communities with a menu of potential incentives, which could include cheaper energy bills

    Tackling unnecessary, egregious, and time-consuming litigation by setting clearer national guidance for developers on the engagement and consultation expected with local communities.

    Strengthening public sector capacity to expedite planning decisions by raising the stamp duty surcharge on non-UK residents to appoint 300 new planning officers.

    Coyote
    Free Member

    We come under Saint Helens council which is Labour controlled and has been for as long as I can remember. They have a passion for throwing up warehousing on green belt which always fails to deliver the number of promised benefits. Our local councillor is a passionate advocate for the destruction of nature.

    rone
    Full Member

    Rawnsley in the Guardian being a being bit dim by acknowledging Labour are trapped by Tory finances but at the same time confused as to where money comes from to help fix the problem.

    “Then the pressures will begin to build on Sir Keir and Ms Reeves to find the money needed to renew Britain while not ramping up taxation even higher. The ultimate success or otherwise of a Labour government will be determined above all else by whether it can deliver a more vigorous economy. You could even call it Sir Keir’s holy grail. His government will fail if the quest for growth eludes him as dismally as it has the Tories.”

    The pressure to ‘find money. ‘ Totally self imposed – based on failed Tory doctrine.

    So many nutty Telegraph articles going on about the cost of servicing public debt. Lmfao. The Government’s very own central bank has the power to not make ‘debt’ as expensive. The ‘BoE’ – the  Telegraph encouraged to increase rates!

    Monetarists stuck in their own trap because of their fictional loop of how the economy works.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Greens win landslide byelection in Keir Starmer’s constituency with candidate who defected from Labour

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/green-party-keir-starmer-camden-council-labour-highgate-holborn-st-pancras-b1124233.html

    “Ms Russell increased her party’s vote share in the ward by 15 points, while Labour’s dropped 13 points.”

    That must hurt.

    🇵🇸

    kerley
    Free Member

    Caught Starmer getting a quick question on CH4 news last night. He started by saying we need to be very clear with the general public and was then asked would he reverse the recent tory fossil fuel licenses and he completely avoided the question and waffled about something else until they changed to next item.
    Just the sort of person we need…

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Hang on… that story of Ernie’s is… Green Party wins seat held by Green Party since 2014. I mean, good on them, but I’m not sure it’s very telling of what’s going to happen in Tory/Labour marginals up and down the country.

    As for oil and gas licenses… I thought Labour had already said that any issued by the current government will be honoured, but no new ones will be issued if they get to form the next government. Missed CH4 news last night, so no idea how slippery the reply was. He does often sound overly evasive though, especially in sound bite type interviews.

    EDIT: hang on… I did see CH4 news last night… I don’t remember Starmer being on at all… which doesn’t mean he wasn’t… 😉

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    I’m not sure it’s very telling of what’s going to happen in Tory/Labour marginals up and down the country.

    Who mentioned anything about up and down the country?

    This is a landslide byelection victory in Keir Starmer’s constituency, in which the Labour vote fell by 13% and the Green vote increased by 15%. To rub salt into the wound the Green candidate was a former Labour Party member.

    And to add further significance to the Green Party big increased share of the vote the previous Green councillor was a very high profile Green Party member having stood in the London Mayoral elections.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Greens hold seat the’ve held since 2014, under three different Labour leaders. Get a few hundred more votes. I mean good on them, but… 🤷🏻 …significance is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    I mean good on them

    Well you don’t sound particularly congratulatory.

    In fact I get the distinct impression that you resent me even providing a link to the story.

    What news have you got concerning the Leader of the Opposition? This thread had been dormant for 4 days, has nothing been happening which is of any concern to the Leader of the Labour Party?

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Well, Wednesday’s PMQs and Today’s Cop28 appearances are worth checking out by anyone considering who we need to have running the UK from the next General Election onwards. Not relevant to everyone here, admittedly, but it’s all Starmer’s going to be about for the next 12 months or so. I hope.

    rone
    Full Member

    What news have you got concerning the Leader of the Opposition? This thread had been dormant for 4 days, has nothing been happening which is of any concern to the Leader of the Labour Party?

    Hey where you been – Rachel Reeves is going to make sure communities have access to high street banks !!

    I mean there’s **** all to put in your account but don’t worry about that.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    No I didn’t hear that, but I did hear that Labour lost control of Norwich council this week, which with Burnley and Oxford now makes three councils that Labour has lost control of in the last month.

    Quite an achievement when you consider that there has been no nationwide local elections.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Why not make the case for whoever you think that is?


    @johnx2

    It doesn’t matter who I think that is, my point is that there is more choice than just Labour or the Tories and people simply have to vote for what they want rather than what they don’t.

    We did up here.

    wbo
    Free Member

    Yes, but if they vote for what they want, they may very well get exactly what they don’t.  FPTP remember…

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    So if they vote for what they don’t want they might get what they want?

    BillMC
    Full Member

    Reeves had her parliamentary credit card suspended so she knows all about hardship.

    argee
    Full Member

    Local council elections are always basket cases, through defections, scandals, whatever way the wind blows, etc, they will not be a very good barometer for parliamentary elections, which tend to be a lot more black and white.

    Anyway, worst case is labour have a proper blowout a la Kinnock or Corbyn at the election and we get 5 more years of the tories,

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Local council elections are always basket cases, through defections, scandals, whatever way the wind blows, etc,

    Ah, so it is perfectly normal for a political party to loose control of three completely unrelated local councils over a period of a month, without even any elections taking place?

    Well as long as you convince yourself of that I guess there is nothing to worry about.

    going by folk on here wouldn’t be a bad thing compared to the muslamist baby killing right winger that is Keir Starmer 🤣

    When you stop crying with laughter over your joke which references the over 5 thousand dead children in Gaza, you might ponder that Starmer’s problems reach beyond this thread. Nearly 60 Labour councillors have resigned from the Labour Party in the last month and a third of Labour MPs rebelled against a Labour three-line whip in parliament.

    billabong987
    Full Member

    Many things amaze me about UK politics but No.1 is how labour consistently manage to miss open goals

Viewing 40 posts - 20,041 through 20,080 (of 21,134 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.