MSP – even if that were true its irrelevant to my point

Dazh said “Given the view of UK voters and Keir Starmer on immigration it would appear that your pro-immigration/free movement at all costs opinion isn’t shared.”

that pro immigration pro EU sentiment is followed by the two parties in coalition in Scotland and anti immigrant rhetoric holds almost no sway here. DazH is making the common mistake of England = UK

AS a man of english descent with a very english name and accent who has lived 40 years in Scotland I guess I have a slightly better view than you from one trip a decade ago

As for Dazh he been coming out with stuff which other posters have pointed out are “dog whistles” or “Daily Mail comments section”. Of course I’d understood his sarcasm but did an Ernie,

How the **** did I get dragged into your latest argument with someone Ed?

I haven’t made any comment on this thread since yesterday, let alone remarked on anything that Daz has said.

I am barely paying any attention to this thread as, yet again, all you want to do is talk about brexit. Despite the fact that there is a whole thread dedicated to brexit. Not a few references to brexit, page after page of nothing but brexit.

And what is this nonsense about:

if you read back over a few pages you’ll find a few of my light-hearted/vaguely amusing if you’ve got asense of humour being taken literally (mainly by Ernie). That the way he operates, he takes things which ever way enables him to attack his adversary, because that’s how he sees us – adversaries.

Posted 58 minutes ago

Thought you would take the opportunity to have a little dig at me whilst I wasn’t on the thread. Or hoping to kick things off again?

And for the record I don’t take anything you say seriously. Not even the stuff you now claim to be “light-hearted/vaguely amusing”, whatever that is.

It may have only been one trip a decade ago for MSP but my own experience of driving a car on foreign plates in England (but not Scotland) at various times over a quarter of a century says MSP has a point. I can drive almost anywhere in Europe and mostly feel transparent, in England I drive cautiously within the law to V signs, shaken fists, aggressive overtakes/braking, horn blowing… . If I step into a car on UK plates I become transparent again.

It goes through phases, the mad cow period had French haters behaving like stock car drivers, then things calmed down only to pick up in the approach to Brexit. I haven’t driven in the UK for a few years and frankly, I’m reluctant.

Thought you would take the opportunity to have a little dig at me whilst I wasn’t on the thread.

You’re always on the thread, Ernie. Read back and read your own posts with the same level of critical analysis and pickiness as you do everybody else’s.

There are people popping in to these threads to say they are hostile to any but the clique of fanatics and I’m pointing out why. They also rightly point out that most of it is bollocks.

I venture in knowing what to expect, STWers have been evloving these disingeneous tactics over decades now, they’re tried and tested. It’s a sort of intellectual sparing in which people push the moderation limits as far as they’ve learned they can being thoroughly odious with each other. It’s a disgrace.

I don’t have much to say about Brexit these days as I think there is a much bigger distorted economic picture to resolve – but I have picked up there are no easy answers currently.

No one seems to be interested in offering a solution. The debate on here highlights how fraught it all is.

Truth.

Now you’re definitely joining in with the bullying, Ransos

In other words, you can’t substantiate your claim so decided to make another personal attack rather than retract it. It really doesn’t reflect well on you.

We’ve both been around here for over a decade, Ransos, how many times have you butted into a thread to have a pop at me. Think very hard.

After a decade or so I know who’s likely to:

appear out of the blue if i’m posting on a thread
put words into my mouth
distort what I say
deliberately take it out of context
quote so as to misquote
play straw man
ask a never ending succession of dumb questions (sealioning)
make ad hominem attacks (I normally just say personal attacks coz it’s easier to spell)
going to be as racist/sexist/homphobic/xenophobic etc. as possible without being racist etc. but obviously is.
post some irrefutable stat or figure that misses the point completely
fail to see humour in other people’s posting then claim the Edimbourg defense
challenge other peoples’ credentials whilst having absolutely non themselves
join in with their bullying mates to try and get someone banned (you really didn’t deserve a ban but others did) or warned or just pissed off enough to hop ship

That’s the tactics that came to mind as I typed, I’d have to sit down and think for a more complete list so I’ll move on to:

The result: it’s an ever declining number of people prepared to stick their head above the parapet and ever more powerful clans/tribes. Given a list of members I can draw venn diagrams of both interests (positive) and allegiences in bullying (negative). Some subjects get a concensus, on some people contribute constructively but on some the battle lines were set down decades ago and the same people are still lobbing grenades at each other from the same miserable mud-filled trenches. This is one, it was mildly amusing for a few days, I’ll leave you all to rip each other to bits now unless you’ve got anything to say on the guitar thread… . 🙂

We’ve both been around here for over a decade, Ransos

Yep, which is why I know that you like to dish plenty out and play the victim the minute someone calls you out on it. It’s not very Edifying.

Now who have I learned that from? 🙂

I learned most of this nonsense as the victim before the ban and have so far survived with just one account since. Like some I others I’m not really sure how I survived or why I’m still here.

I’m pretty pholosphical about the whole thing, STW is one of the more pleasant, woke and positive places in the Anglo-Saxon Internet universe. If you look at the sum of my posting on sport, the environment, Covid, guitars, DIY… I think you’ll find it’s pretty constructive and positive. I’m no nihilist, if I didn’t think I was contributing positively I wouldn’t post.

So what I am doing in this thread? Showing people up for what they are maybe, giving them enough rope… . Look at the attitudes I’ve drawn out, the attitudes to immigrants and immigration, and to the UK’s (mainly Westminster’s) disfunctional relationship with it’s nearest neighbours.

Sir Keir Starmer has a problem because his natural supporters,the woke on this thread, don’t like him because he’s pandering to… .

Now who have I learned that from? 🙂

No idea: why don’t you tell us.

I thought you were leaving?

I learned most of this nonsense as the victim before the ban

There you go again.

So what I am doing in this thread?

Calling everyone a racist?

Look at the attitudes I’ve drawn out

Look mum! Look what I did! 😂

That was meant to be “before the great hack” rather than “before the ban”, Ransos.

I’ll find my coat soon. And the weather forecast is good enough to work on the roof tomorrow.

Time to start ignoring Dazh’s inaccurate and provocative nonsense. (no smiley)

That was meant to be “before the great hack” rather than “before the ban”, Ransos.

Still here then.

It’s interesting you assert victimhood that coincidentally no-one has any way of verifying.

“picky picky doing thier best to irritate and provoke”. Another one for my list of “who’s likely to” up there.

Another one: “keep going all night to have the last word”.

Over and out. 🙂

So, that Keir Starmer eh!?

Another one: “keep going all night to have the last word”.

Self awareness isn’t a strength of yours, is it?

Tell you what, seeing as a) you’re incapable of doing what you say and b) will relentlessly construct a false narrative to play the victim when you’re caught out, I’ll be the bigger person and leave you to have the last word. Ta ta!

I dip in and out of this thread. Never really contribute, but having just seen the past couple of pages, it’s pretty pathetic, this goading and point-scoring between a few regulars.

So what I am doing in this thread?

Calling everyone a racist?

Not quite. Apparently to tell us Kier Starmer is worse than the leader of the French far-right National Rally Party Marine Le Pen, who is widely considered to be a bigot and a racist.

She is goody two shoes in comparison to Starmer, we are told.

Is it really 2 years to the next G.E? FML

Yep it is that long. 2 years too long and 2 years for the tories to try and sort themselves out a bit, people to forget what a bunch of **** they are, be lied to etc,. etc,.
If Starmer wins it won’t be by anything like the amount the current polls are suggesting.

I am not worried about the torries sorting themselves out, they are clearly showing that they have nothing to offer other than more austerity. I am worried about the damage 2 more years of turbocharged austerity is going to have on so many lives.

Yup, it’s terrifying.

One you can say about the Conservatives is that they are the masters of spin & PR. Coupled with an absolute lack of shame they have proven time and time again that they know how to win an election. This should be causing any opposition to worry. If we’ve learnt anything over the past few months, 2 year is a long time in politics and despite the last 12 years they could still pull it off & win again.

I am worried about the damage 2 more years of turbocharged austerity is going to have on so many lives.

That and how much of the remaining assets they can sell off cheap to mates/create ruinous long term contracts.

One you can say about the Conservatives is that they are the masters of spin & PR.

Yes and no. It only works so long as they are dancing to the right wing press moguls desires. Just see how quickly Cameron came unstuck when he thought he was the PR master of his legend (as opposed to a couple of years working for a friend of his mums as a break from politics) and so went for the brexit referendum.

I dip in and out of this thread. Never really contribute

You could have just left it that way. Another ‘I’m too sexy for this thread’ post. 🙄

Or you know, you could just post what you think about the subject. You might raise the tone from Ed’s everyone but me is a racist obsession.

Prime Ministers don’t tend to become more popular after two years in office. Rishi Sunak is currently enjoying his honeymoon period with voters.

When Sunak became leader Tory support was in the low twenties, with a cunning mini budget and the perceived impression of post-Johnson/Truss competence, he has managed to lift Tory support into the high twenties.

Labour support has gone from approx 50-55% when Truss was PM to approx 45-48% under Sunak.

That is absolutely catastrophic for the Tories but there is absolutely nothing they can do about the situation because every PM until the next general is hamstrung by the fact that they are Tory.

They can’t get a magic wand out and simply magic away the fact that they have been in power 12 years and that the economy and the country is in crisis.

The difference that 2 years will make will be that they will have been in government for 14-15 years and the country will be in a worse crisis than it is right now.

A simple fact that is now widely accepted by Tory MPs :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/25/tory-mps-ponder-life-after-parliament-deadline-declare-intention

I am worried about the damage 2 more years of turbocharged austerity is going to have on so many lives.

Two more years? I wasn’t aware they were doing turbocharged austerity yet, let alone another two years of it. All the cuts are scheduled to occur in two years time. If Starmer and Reeves don’t change their tune it’ll be labour austerity you have to worry about, not the tories.

Prime Ministers don’t tend to become more popular after two years in office.

thatcher

“tend”

Edit: Thatcher was actually less popular two years into her premiership

thatcher

Thatcher was enormously unpopular until the Argies bailed her out with their ill-advised invasion. The UK had just endured the most crushing recession in history which was a deliberate result of Thatchers scorched earth economic policy. If not for the falklands, and the SDP she’d have lost the 83 election.

Yes I think a patriotic war might save Rishi Sunak’s premiership.

Perhaps he can give the Spanish a green light to invade Gibraltar?

Thatcher was enormously unpopular until

events. They do happen

Yes they do. But Thatcher is not an example of a PM who got more popular in her first two years after being elected. The opposite was true.

Thatcher was enormously unpopular until the Argies bailed her out with their ill-advised invasion

Which was in large part due to her governments incompetence when cutting back on defence. They were warned it was likely to be seen as a green light but ignored it in order to save a few quid. Doubly lucky the Argies didnt wait another year or so at which point a bunch of really useful assets would have been sold off/scrapped.
She also had the advantage of all that North Sea oil and gas to use up plus giving away a bunch of housing cheap.

Since she has burned through those assets though harder for Sunak to try.

Thatcher was perhaps the luckiest PM, with Blair not far behind. Sunak is not looking very lucky at all. Starmer on the other hand looks like he could be the luckiest opposition leader in history.

Something to look forward to – two more years of pointless posts from the usual suspects until the next election.
Deep joy.

PM who got more popular in her first two years

PMs sometimes get more popular and a few months either way really isn’t the issue.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/political-monitor-satisfaction-ratings-1977-1987

We don’t know what’s going to happen over the next two years. With Russia most obviously.

With Russia most obviously.

Wildly off-topic but I reckon we’ll see a negotiated settlement once the Germans have had enough of blackouts and recession. In the probably unlikely event that happens, energy prices will take time to return to normal, if at all, and even if they do consumer prices will lag far behind. So even if Ukraine is resolved in the next two years it won’t do much to help Sunak.

two more years of pointless posts from the usual suspects until the next election.

And another one. 🙄 #imtoosexyforthisthread

Wildly off-topic but I reckon we’ll see a negotiated settlement…

Should we file that with all your other frighteningly accurate predictions on the Ukraine thread?