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Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 10,569 total)
  • Sir! Keir! Starmer!
  • Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    There is no solvency issue for a sovereign government

    There is no truly 100% sovereign government, they run a country that does not exist in isolation, it must be able to trade and otherwise engage with other countries, the value of its currency is highly relevant for the health wealth and wellbeing of everyone that lives there.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    The minimum wage and putting large increases of funds into the NHS were fought hard by the Tories

    Labour’s 1997 manifesto committed them to Tory spending levels for at least two years. Entirely because they were frightened of challenging the status quo.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    He then wasted years by not standing down after his general election loss.

    This is a ridiculous statement. Lets rewind back to 2017, whilst he didn’t win the election he did massively better than anyone predicted, and even his critics at the time acknowledged that he deserved to stay in post. Back then literally no one, Binners included, thought he should step down. Now though, in a brazen revisionist re-writing of recent history, you criticise him for not being able to see the future.

    Here’s another view, following the 2017 election it would have been fairly easy for Corbyn to step aside for someone younger to take up the reigns, with his job of moving the party back to it’s soft left social democratic tradition complete. Any hopes of this were made impossible after labour MPs on the right of the party joined with tory critics to engineer the anti-semitism fiasco.

    The moment they called him a racist was the moment the draw bridges were pulled up and trenches dug deeper, and the next two years were spent with the left trying to defend Corbyn’s anti-racist reputation rather than fighting the tories. What happened in the 2019 election was the inevitable and deliberately intended result of the actions of a few labour MPs on the right of the party.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    This is a ridiculous statement.

    I absolutely stand by it. He should have stood aside for a new left wing leader to take a shot at the leadership. Wasted years. And to pretend that no one said so at the time ignores… well, all the Labour voices that said that he should.

    it would have been fairly easy for Corbyn to step aside for someone younger to take up the reign

    And he should have.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    TJ, you’re not listening to Daz… it’s just revisionism to suggest people thought Corbyn should go. Apparently. Well, apart from the Jews. And it’s their fault that he didn’t, or something.

    Premier Icon gauss1777
    Free Member

    I find it hard to believe that Corbyn wanted power for himself so much, that he would not stand aside for someone more suited to the role. However, I can believe that after so long on the back benches struggling to move the party further to the left, he would not want to risk a new, unknown leader, with a different agenda.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

     it’s just revisionism to suggest people thought Corbyn should go.

    Kelvin you know full well I’m talking about the period straight after the 2017 election before the anti-semitism stuff got going. That farmhouse plot was over a year later at the peak of the anti-semitism stuff when the civil war was fully under way. Hardly anyone ws calling for him to resign after the 2017 election. I’m not saying he would have stepped aside, but the anti-semitism disgrace made it completely impossible and set in motion an ustoppable chain of events which led to the election defeat.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    People were calling for Corbyn to go for years. You were moaning about those that were at the time. To pretend that people, include key Labour people, didn’t want Corbyn to stand aside is, well, deluded nonsense. If you think that he wasn’t already a sunk leader in the eyes of many, taking Labour down to the depths, before Jewish MPs and councillors started leaving party, then I can’t agree.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    4 words:

    Vote of no confidence

    What was the result of that one again? Remind me…

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    To pretend that people, include key Labour people, didn’t want Corbyn to stand aside is, well, deluded nonsense.

    Kelvin you’re flogging a defeated argument. You are saying that Corbyn should have stepped aside after he lost the 2017 election, and I’m pointing out that at the time virtually no one was asking him to (if you can find evidence go for it), and that the opportunity to do so later was removed because of the anti-semitism issue. It’s plainly absurd to criticise him for not being able to see the future, or for not doing somethig which hardly anyone at the time was asking him to do. If I remember right, even Tony Blair wasn’t calling for him to resign after the 2017 election.

    If you’re really going to carry on with this silly line of argument, then you should also be slating every single labour MP and media commentator (ie pretty much all of them) who said that the 2017 election result earnt him the right to continue as leader.

    Vote of no confidence

    Long before the 2017 election. You lot have very poor memories.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    (if you can find evidence go for it)

    I can’t be arsed. Didn’t TJ post examples of Labour MPs ‘undermining’ him? I’ll be honest, I didn’t click on the links.

    If your memory is that ‘virtually no one’ was calling for Corbyn to move aside back in 2017, then your blinkers are most impressive.

    As for Corbyn being someone locked into his post because of the ‘anti-semitism issue’… ahh what’s the point.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    If your memory is that ‘virtually no one’ was calling for Corbyn to move aside back in 2017, then your blinkers are most impressive.

    It’s not my memory, it’s a simple fact. Following his second victory in 2016 the calls for him to resign/step aside died down. There was still plenty criticism but not many telling him to step aside. Before the election there were even fewer doing so. After the election almost no one. Subsequent calls for him to resign didn’t happen until 2018 when the anti-semitism storm gathered momentum.

    As for Corbyn being someone locked into his post because of the ‘anti-semitism issue’

    Don’t be daft. If he’d resigned as a result of the anti-semitism smears he’d have basically been admitting they were true. It’s naive in the extreme to think that he would have done that given his lifelong reputation as an anti-racism campaigner, and the fact that the very people in the party doing the smearing were the same people who from the beginning swore to remove him.

    The main thing Corbyn was guilty of in that period was not being aggressive enough in countering his critics due to a desperate attempt to hold his party together. If he’d walked away the party would have exploded. The election result was a collective failure and an inevitable result of the schism between the membership and the PLP. I’m hoping Starmer understands that, because if he doesn’t he’ll go the same way as Corbyn.

    Premier Icon mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    you know chaps, we’ve got a whole ‘nother thread for corbyn…

    Premier Icon olddog
    Full Member

    So the result everyone has known for 3 months has been announced so time to guess for cabinet posts:

    To start it off with…

    Ashworth – Health
    Thornberry – Foreign
    Cooper home sec
    Long Bailey Environment
    Nandy communities
    Benn – international trade, development/brexit
    Junior shadow Cab post for Lammy

    I am struggling for a chancellor

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    I am struggling for a chancellor

    Rumour has it Rachel Reeves is favourite, which would be a terrible mistake. RLB is the most qualified but it won’t happen for obvious reasons. It’s needs someone who is a radical though, on both economic and climate change issues. Coronavirus has changed the game, and it needs someone willing to think about UBI, wealth taxes, MMP etc rather than a fiscal conservative like Reeves.

    And Cooper and Benn, along with the rest of the refuseniks who refused to serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet should be kept on the back benches where they belong.

    Premier Icon kiksy
    Free Member

    Allin-Khan for health secutary Shirley?

    Premier Icon olddog
    Full Member

    I’m not endorsing my guesses. Cooper and Benn chair committees and Labour are short of experienced senior politicians.

    Rachel Reeves is possible but I don’t think he’d have Reeves and Cooper in 2 of the big three – so it would be Reeves as Chancellor and someone else for HO if that was the case – but Reeves wouldn’t really be aligned with the Starmer’s stated intent on economic policy. Maybe Reeves for transport of other mid ranking

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    And Cooper and Benn, along with the rest of the refuseniks who refused to serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet should be kept on the back benches where they belong.

    This. I admired Starmer for serving in Corbyn’s shadow cabinet, regardless of their political differences.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Full Member

    RLB is the most qualified

    In what way?

    Premier Icon olddog
    Full Member

    Allin-Khan for health secutary Shirley?

    I really like but it would be difficult for a practicing medic to do health. Also a bit hard on Ashworth, unless he got DWP

    Premier Icon chestrockwell
    Full Member

    So not close after all with RLB soundly beaten and Burgon 3rd for dep.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    In what way?

    She has the economic policies most suited to the times and a willingness to do things differently. Before coronavirus she was the architect of labour’s best, most important and radical policy in the Green New Deal. She’s also an advocate of the policies which are going to be required in the wake of coronavirus such as UBI, more public ownership and redistributive fiscal policies. She’s a policy geek and a radical, which is exactly what’s needed now as the status quo no longer exists.

    Premier Icon boomerlives
    Free Member

    So long as Abbot is kicked as far into the long grass as possible, the rest is gravy.

    Premier Icon olddog
    Full Member

    As RLB was green new deal I reckon that’s why she will get Environment. Starmer will want a close ally as Shad Chancellor – it’s too powerful a post.

    Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    Nandy and RLB might get jobs but if they do they’ll be small ones. No chance of chancellor. I didn’t watch all the hustings but some were quite needly, don’t think they are all besties.

    Nobody was calling for JC to go after the 2017 election. I thought he should go tbh, lose an election and that’s your chance gone imo. Also hope YC doesn’t get a job!

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Agree with olddog.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Dazh, if the shadow cabinet is for ever more to only contain people who ‘got behind Corbyn’, then Keir is screwed from day one, and the party is staying where it currently is for the foreseeable.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    if the shadow cabinet is for ever more to only contain people who ‘got behind Corbyn’, then Keir is screwed from day one

    Because they did such a great job, didn’t they? Political Pygmies, the lot of them. They’ll hopefully be placed , to quote Malcolm Tucker: ‘So ****ing backbench, you’re out by the ****ing bins, where I put you”

    The front bench isn’t the main problem though. The main problem is the Marxist imbeciles that Grandad installed behind the scenes in important roles at the top of the Party machine. Hopefully they’ll all be handed their P45’s this afternoon. They were the ones calling the shots. Corbyns cabinet were just a bunch of nodding dogs

    Then they need to kidnap Len McClusky and lock him in a cellar, then put an armed guard on Corbyn’s allotment with orders to shoot him with a tranquiliser dart should he make any attempt to leave it

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Hopefully they’ll all be handed their P45’s this afternoon.

    Agreed. Although that will now be an expensive move due to the lovely new golden handcuff contracts they received, while those lower down all got shitty zero security ones.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Oh, they all knew the writing was on the wall alright. Which is why they handed themselves big fat salary increases with new gold-plated, ring-fenced permanent contracts that will have to be paid up to get rid of them all

    All very ‘socialist’ of them.

    It still absolutely staggers me how hard of thinking some people are that they still fail to see the true colours of the gang of self-serving charlatans around Corbyn.

    No matter what the cost though, the lot of them need to be gone. They should have been out of the door months ago

    Premier Icon olddog
    Full Member
      Starmer and Rayner have a pretty strong mandate across the board

    Premier Icon fadda
    Full Member

    And what comment do we have on momentum already saying that they’re looking forward to “holding the new leadership to account”?

    Sounds like the opposition, to me…

    Premier Icon willard
    Full Member

    Loving the way that the knives are out already for him by Unite with McClusky reminding him that he needs to continue being radical if he wants support.

    Good support there for the new guy.

    Premier Icon fadda
    Full Member

    Agree, willard – I guess this is the kind of division that needs healing…

    Premier Icon mehr
    Free Member

    And what comment do we have on momentum already saying that they’re looking forward to “holding the new leadership to account”?

    Sounds like the opposition, to me…

    I said in the old thread that the new leader wouldn’t be able to unite the party, let alone the country and judging by left wing Twitter today it’s already proven true.

    Premier Icon Philby
    Full Member

    With the result he has got he doesn’t need Lansman or McCluskey’s support – like the dinosaurs they are they will become extinct as the party moves forwards whilst they stand still. My suggestions for the Shadow Cabinet is as follows:
    Shadow Chancellor – Rachel Reeves (unlike RLB she has an economics and banking background)
    Shadow Foreign Secretary – Hilary Benn
    Shadow Home Secretary – Yvette Cooper
    Shadow Health Secretary – Jonathan Ashworth
    Shadow Environment Secretary – Rebecca Bailey-Long
    Shadow Secetary for Business etc – Clive Lewis
    Shadow Defence Secretary – Dan Jarvis
    Shadow Education Secretary – Lisa Nandy
    Shadow Secretary of State for Communities & Local Government – David Lammy
    Shadow Scottish Secretary – Ian Murray
    Shadow Secretary for Work & Pensions – Rosa Allin

    There’s a few more key roles, but I don’t know the potential candidates well enough, although I would hope my local MP Thangham Debbonaire, who was previously a Whip, would get a role as I have been extremely impressed by her performance in Parliament.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Len McClusky really is the most useful of idiots for the Tory’s

    You’d think that those results would give him pause to reflect and maybe, for everyone’s benefit, STFU for a while, but no…

    not that gobshite

    Premier Icon olddog
    Full Member

    Philby – you and I have similar thoughts, but I can’t see Cooper, Reeves and Benn getting the top three. My guess is that Thornberry stays with Foreign, Benn at International Trade, development and Brexit. Then either Reeves as Chancellor or Cooper as Home Sec.

    I also see Nandy as communities.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    If Benn and Cooper are in the cabinet then Starmer is less than I thought

    neither of those two are fit for high office given their behaviour. Couper for her arrogance and corruptness and Benn for his petulant continual attacks on Corbyn.

    Now is the time for a proper clearout. Not just the schoolboy leftists but also the right wing entryists and the brexiteers and those who made the most trouble against Corbyn that led to another tory government. Scottish Sec he has a real issue with Murray being a man who led the labour / tory pact that led to 10 tory MPS. Put it this way – Murray is a huge turn off to many scots voters. I’ll be not voting labour if he gets any position. the man is contemptible

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