Isn’t the whole point of privatisation that the government doesn’t interfere?

No. It has to regulate them. It has to set the standards that the companies meet, and has to make sure that they meet them. You can’t dismiss privatisation by pointing at one administration (especially one that shirks it’s responsibilities as badly as this one does) and say “See, it doesn’t work”

It’s like giving a 4 year the ingredients for making pizza and being disappointed that you don’t get New York’s finest at the end

You can’t have a “hands off” energy sector. The government has to be involved. Might as well be honest about it and include public ownership in the mix.

Drops in favourability once again for both Johnson and Starmer, but Starmer remains ahead of Johnson on the 'Best PM' metric for the 6th month in a row.

Net Favourability
Johnson -30
Starmer -10

Best PM
Johnson 34
Starmer 36 pic.twitter.com/lpLZKuM1Bm

— Savanta ComRes (@SavantaComRes) May 19, 2022

There’s just so much more going to happen before the next election, I’m still not confident either boris or keir will be leading their parties at the next election anyway!

🚨BREAKING🚨

Our new polling with @Survation shows that Red Wall voters OVERWHELMINGLY support public ownership.

🚊 Rail: 68%
💧 Water: 70%
💡 Energy: 68%
🏥 NHS: 80%
📮 Royal Mail: 68%
🚍 Buses: 67% https://t.co/iG9LMGyDfM

— We Own It (@We_OwnIt) May 20, 2022

Who’d have thought it?

And Starmer thinks he needs to lean right to bring back the red wall.

Don’t think so.

When your economy fails your pocket people take notice.

Labour need to attack the Tories on this. What are they scared of? Not getting donations from big business?

Also to me it is massively unpatriotic to sell off our infrastructure to foreign countries. The Tories are unpatriotic ffs not Labour.

All this “the Tories might sell the NHS” would cut through more if it was put with “like they sold the water, energy, Royal Mail, railways etc”

Who’d have thought it?

Most political analysts.

I don’t think it’s ever been a secret that most people have always favoured (re)nationalisation of public utilities /services.

The problem seems to be the disconnect between people admitting that it’s what they want and accepting that it’s socialism.

It’s not just renationalisation…..

Vox Pop

And Starmer thinks he needs to lean right to bring back the red wall.

Starmer’s been pro public ownership throughout, as trailmonkey says, not many people in the country think that public ownership isn’t a good idea, but how it would be implemented, costed and assessed is all pretty much unknown.

On another note, i do see a lot of companies now offering up savings and specials to help some areas with the cost of living, it’s sad that we’re still seeing the government fannying about regarding windfall taxes, and having those companies suddenly making record profits due to inflation and price rises having to do stuff just because of public opinion, maybe some through guilt.

State ownership is not socialism, it’s state capitalism. Post war nationalisation was not to deliver socialism but to restore capitalism and provide a healthy, literate and numerate workforce. It’s not as though if you’re a civil servant or local government officer you live in a socialist utopia, often pay and conditions are worse than in the private sector.

That’s a timely reminder Bill, thanks. Labour need to avoid the word “socialism” if they want to win over enough of the public. Many Brits think of Bill’s idea of socialism when they hear the word, the end of capitalism in all its forms, and deeply distrust those using the word… even when the policies offered are in their interest, and taken individually have high levels of support amongst the voting public.

Most political analysts.

Yep. It’s been like that for a long time. The public support public ownership. Not enough of them are prepared to vote for a party that puts nationalisation front and centre in their manifesto though.

Back to energy… is Bulb now a nationalised energy supplier? In some other kind of public ownership? I can’t find anything definitive on it.

According to today’s Observer, Labour not looking to form any sort of coalition with the SNP as this could alienate potential ex-red wall voters in the south. That’s fine, they can continue to cosy up with former Orange Lodge members and Tories in certain areas and look forward to a further term of political impotence north of the border by pandering to flag-shagging Brexiteers. Never has the term “Westminster Branch Office” been more appropriate.

Although a coalition with SNP would be short lived as a Scottish referendum would be part of the deal. Still better than having a tory government for the 5 years though.

OTOH a referendum held while the Tories are out of power might show less support for independence. It’s weird that nobody minds the idea of separate political parties, often in coalition, for NI but can’t see that as a model for Scotland.

Stating they will go into a coalition with the SNP will cost labour votes. Probably enough to make the whole point moot. I expect the SNP would support labour on most issues even outside a coalition anyway.

Stating they will go into a coalition with the SNP will cost labour votes.

Why though? Especially as

the SNP would support labour on most issues even outside a coalition anyway.

I was thinking about this last weekend, while looking at all the George, Union (and Ukraine) flags flying in the more affordable areas in the North East. Labour should seriously consider splitting (formally or informally) into “Scottish Labour” (already exists) and “English Labour” (no, I haven’t forgotten Wales)… on a ticket of a referendum on a federal UK. Also offering NI more independence from Westminster without having to grasp the Irish Unification nettle. Decentralising in a way truly that changes but keeps the Union. Has to appeal in all the nations though… including in the “Red Wall”… hence “English Labour”.

Actually, I think I’ve worked it out …

I’d always questioned why anyone at all left-leaning would rather have a Tory government over a Lab/SNP one but that was missing an obvious point. It’s the right-leaning Labour voters that are driving the decision.

ex-red wall voters in the south

It is strange just how quickly the definitions of political metaphors can change, which can make it hard to keep up.

Here is the original comment by the man who coined the phrase only 3 years ago:

The first is a huge “red wall” stretching from N Wales into Merseyside, Warrington, Wigan, Manchester, Oldham, Barnsley, Nottingham and Doncaster. When you talk about cultural barriers to voting Tory – this is where it is.

Back to energy… is Bulb now a nationalised energy supplier? In some other kind of public ownership? I can’t find anything definitive on it.

Bulb was given loan to run the company.

The biggest effective bail-out. But not ownership.

It’s the usual thing, don’t go anywhere near nationalisation but chuck money at it.

It’s a ridiculous clash of ideology.

Effectively the market should collapse if it can’t do its job.

But I think Bulb were one of the biggest if not the biggest to ‘survive.’

Too big to fail. But it looked like it was on borrowed time to me.

It’s not complex here in the heart of the red wall. They’re socially conservative and economically liberal.

It maybe isn’t that clean cut – but I dare bet if you raise the state of the economy up here you might loosen the attitude socially too.

Wallers got conned though. That’s the sad truth – they were buying into levelling up as well as Brexit. (And a misdirected anti-Corbyn sentiment from the likes of their own John Mann.)

They thought loads of money was coming back.

This is why it’s important for Labour to rewire their fiscal prudence policy and take on board that a government doesn’t need to balance the books. Balanced books are of no use to an economy or deprived areas.

It’s actually not that difficult to correct but Labour have gone in the totally wrong direction.

It is strange just how quickly the definitions of political metaphors can change

No, the definition hasn’t changed, it’s just that we’re not all in London. Someone in Scotland would describe “the Red Wall” as being in the south, especially when comparing it with seats in Scotland.

It’s the right-leaning Labour voters that are driving the decision.

It’s the “Union before all else” voters driving that decision. Whether they are right-leaning is debatable… in the main they may well be, but not exclusively. A federal solution really needs pushing by Labour… otherwise Scottish independence will come. It’ll be when, not if… unless a major party south of the border can push an alternative that isn’t just “shut up and keep the Union as it is”.

100% agree.

A new federal Britain should be Labour’s number one policy. It would keep the Union together and give more power to the regions who have been **** over for decades. A vote winner I reckon?

Stating they will go into a coalition with the SNP will cost labour votes. Probably enough to make the whole point moot. I expect the SNP would support labour on most issues even outside a coalition anyway.

Think there’s mixed reports going on, which may stem from the Scottish issues, more than national, from most sources, after a UK election Labour haven’t said yay or nay to a coalition, as it’s not really something to plan yet, the rest comes from the previous coalition in a Scottish government, which isn’t happening anyway.

As Scotroutes says, the SNP naturally back against the tories, without the need to give the tories more fuel to burn labour with, like the way they lambasted Milliband with potential links to the SNP back in 2015.

Personally, i think the SNP have enough to work out and plan without thinking of a UK coalition as well, there’s a lot going on up in Scotland and a lot of fighting ahead for them as well, they’re getting tarred as much as Labour are just now!

“I’m told that hindsight is a wonderful thing”

👏🏼

Concentrating on the cost of living crisis, while setting out the immediate measures the government could and should be taking, while also pricking at the empty phrases of the PM at PMQs.

“he said that fears about inflation were unfounded”

The part time PM has been asleep at the wheel all along. Repeated charges of “doing the country down” and “captain hindsight” thrown at the LotO to deflect away from questions about poor governance by a floundering government could be about to hit the end of the line at last.

“He talks about doing this country down, he is running this country down”

👏🏼

Johnson is back on “got Brexit done”… very obviously on the back foot. All noise.

“I’m told that hindsight is a wonderful thing”

Nice to see Starmer indulging in jocular knockabout and looking very pleased with himself while millions suffer. He’s laughing and joking when he should be raging with anger. He just doesn’t get it.

He just doesn’t get it.

Yes, he does. That he puts forward measures to help people, now, and clearly makes the case why Johnson is a poor PM, without getting red faced and loud, is the foil to Johnson’s fake passion and empty noise.

Here comes Blackford to land the next blow…

That he puts forward measures to help people, and clearly makes the case why Johnson is poor PM, without getting red faced and loud

The measures Labour are proposing don’t go anywhere near to redressing the increases in energy bills and the cost of living. He was laughing when delivering that line about hindsight. To the watching voters paying double what they were last year for their utility bills it looks like nothing more than another westminster debating contest which will do nothing to actually help them.

They help get people through the next twelve months. That is all. They are what the government could and should do RIGHT NOW. They are not a manifesto for a future Labour government, or a roadmap for how energy supply should be handled long term. Using the windfall tax to offset energy prices is just part of a short term fix. That the government should apply, or rather should have already applied. Along with increasing benefits already aimed at those that most need help.

Unrelated, but it really pisses me off when you can hear members of the front bench (shadow and otherwise) jeering and shouting comments during PMQs. STFU and at least let people talk. Angela Rayner is particularly bad at this and I heard her talking over Starmer repeatedly today.

Agreed. But why pick Angela Rayner, not Peter Bone (who actually caused the speaker to stop proceedings to shut him up)?

Agreed. But why pick Angela Rayner, not Peter Bone (who actually caused the speaker to stop proceedings to shut him up)?

If she’s not flashing her pins to put the men off their work she’s shouting down everyone, bloody northerners 😂

Agreed. But why pick Angela Rayner, not Peter Bone (who actually caused the speaker to stop proceedings to shut him up)?

Because Peter Bone is an imbecile. Angela Rayner is normally far more professional.

Windfall tax is a bare minimum of nothing in the grand scheme of things.

The fact the Tories are looking at it tells you that.

Starmer could push back so much harder. Talk of manifesto promises are largely irrelevant now given the fact that lots of people are about to go through hell.

But I guess he’s busy doing battle with who can win the whole covid rule busting thing. He will never win that one either.

Cost of living is natural Labour territory – but then again this damp squib of uselessness is barely worthy of the name Labour.

Starmer is worse than I ever imagined he could be. But more desperate than that the captain of lack of substance (apart from the NUS) – Junior Blairite Wes Streeting is being dropped in and out of conversation.

Someone who has built his political career out of nothing more than media training.

& Boris is getting away with it all because the polls are so close. His party would have him out if Labour were ahead by 20 points (as any decent opposition would be)

& Boris is getting away with it all because the polls are so close. His party would have him out if Labour were ahead by 20 points (as any decent opposition would be)

Absolutely.

You can’t tackle an opponent who doesn’t care about the rules by pointing out the rules.

You’ve got to go for the jugular. The population should be getting to know by now that they’ve been fleeced.

Sell it to them with some solutions.

this damp squib of uselessness is barely worthy of the name Labour.

To be fair this is not uniquely a Labour Party thing, if it was then the LibDems would be making massive inroads.

British politics has been hijacked by self-serving professionals who have no connection with ordinary voters and are clearly determined to maintain the status quo.

Nick Clegg castrated the LibDems and now Keir Starmer is castrating Labour.

The result is no radical alternative to the vision offered by the Tories. Just the promise that it will be delivered with greater integrity. Although like millions of ordinary voters I’m not necessarily convinced – the LibDem enthusiasm for austerity when in government appeared every bit as great as the Tories.

Starmer could push back so much harder.

How exactly, labour aren’t in power?

His party would have him out if Labour were ahead by 20 points (as any decent opposition would be)

So how exactly do labour get ahead by 20 points in a country that has a high percentage of lifetime voting tories, right wingers and now a near enough independent Scottish vote?

The last time labour had close to that they had most of the Scottish seats and a Tory party that were more disjointed than labour have been over the last few years!

Well there you go …. it’s all the fault of voters.

But only since Keir Starmer became Leader.

The SNP will not go into coalition. They rightly want no part of governing England. They might do supply and confidece

They would not vote fown a labour government but they might well abstain

Labour doing anti SNPdeals with tories in Scotland stinks. They have forgotten who the enemy is