From richest party in the uk to near bankruptcy in two years. Nice one Keir.

The Labour Party is on the verge of bankruptcy

They need a general election. That’s when people get involved in helping better fund the party.

They need a general election. That’s when people get involved in helping better fund the party.

It depends whether you want normal members who would generally pay up anyway or you are wanting big sponsors who will be wanting a quid pro quo after you get elected.

The big sponsors would like a bankrupted party, it gives them even more leverage. Mass membership is not Sir’s thing anyway, more spying and expelling.

“Normal members” are absolutely key, do a lot of fundraising, and donating directly, themselves. They don’t only contribute via their fees. But ultimately, Labour funds are boosted in general election years, when party politics is more to the front of everyone’s priorities, “normal members” or not. Expecting as much engagement (and funds) at this point of the election cycle as when an election is imminent just isn’t realistic.

Interesting that Starmer’s approval ratings are tanking along with Johnson’s. His lack of opposition and tacit support for the tories coming back to bite him? Also interesting seeing Rayner stand in for him whilst he’s been isolating. This morning on Sky news she unequivocally said Johnson is a liar and should resign. I hope we see the same clarity and opposition from Starmer at PMQs.

🚨 NEW: Starmer's favourability falls to -24.

✅ Favourable: 30% (-3)
❌ Unfavourable: 54% (+6)

Via @YouGov, 6-7 Jan (+/- since 19-20 Dec) pic.twitter.com/1YJuMLNnMK

— Stats for Lefties 🍉🏳️‍⚧️ (@LeftieStats) January 11, 2022

This morning on Sky news she unequivocally said Johnson is a liar and should resign. I hope we see the same clarity and opposition from Starmer at PMQs.

I was hoping that he still had Covid. Rayner would’ve brought some passion to proceedings, in stark contrast to the bloodless Starmer.

Rayner and Miliband have been doing a great job in the media so far this year… more of them please. The Labour front bench need to look like a team ready to take over. This is doubly true with such a non-entity of a leader. Nandy has been doing a good job in parliament as well. Lammy has been less visible in his new role than I expected, but perhaps a focus on domestic issues is the right approach for Labour right now.

Lammy has been less visible in his new role than I expected

He’s been a bit busy fighting Starmer/Mandelson’s factional war against anyone who calls themselves left wing.

OK Dazh. If you say so.

I was hoping that he still had Covid. Rayner would’ve brought some passion to proceedings, in stark contrast to the bloodless Starmer.

@Ransos – Theres not many times me and you agree on anything, but I was hoping exactly the same.

Boris clearly absolutely hates having to face Angela Rayner. She’s everything he can’t cope with… working class and female.

With Starmer he juts bats away any questions, ignores what he asked and then rambles on about vaccinations, whereas Rayner seems to completely scramble his radar. She looks like she knows this full well and is enjoying every second of his obvious discomfort

Starmer needs to call for his resignatioon. Nothing else will do now. I’m not holding my breath.

Wow. He’s finally found a backbone.

Yeah Starmer is actually putting the boot in properly rather than trying to treat Johnson like another lawyer in court.
I did like how he got in calling him a liar under the what the people think line.

This appears to be when you really need an experienced lawyer

Loved the way he worded his ‘lying through his teeth’ accusation to get around parliamentary rules

He’s playing a blinder here

Edit – wrong thread.

Boris clearly absolutely hates having to face Angela Rayner. She’s everything he can’t cope with… working class and female.

Exactly. I don’t suppose he’s had to deal with many people like her in his life.

Yeah Starmer is actually putting the boot in properly rather than trying to treat Johnson like another lawyer in court.

I listened to it. I thought he said all the right things, but the way he said them came across to me as another dusty legal argument.

I thought he said all the right things, but the way he said them came across to me as another dusty legal argument.

As always.

So many of the front bench would have made it resonate far better. Including Rayner.

Still, at this point those others in the top team need to be working together to make sure the public prefer them to their opposite numbers on the government benches. Time to make sure it is “Labour need to be given the reins, take them away from the Conservatives”… and not just a “Starmer is better than Johnson” feeling that needs to take hold in the hearts and minds of the public. As Johnson flails and fails, it is vital that he isn’t allowed to make it all about the people who lead the parties… as that isn’t fixed come the next general election.

So many of the front be bench would have made it resonate far better.

Nah, he was as good as he could be, and I doubt anyone could have done better. The only disappointment is that he doesn’t show that anger every week.

If you say so. I think Rayner, Miliband and a number of others could have made this a more memorable exchange for voters if he’d not been able to attend today.

I thought Starmer played that well

maybe just my expectations being low ? but this was bang on

“Is [the PM] going to do the decent thing and resign?”

Labour leader Keir Starmer says Boris Johnson is a “pathetic spectacle of a man who ran out of road”

The PM says “I have apologised” for attending No 10 party, "I thought it was a work event"#PMQs https://t.co/cXM9HUgeXn pic.twitter.com/Z3x8cXNGIi

— BBC News (UK) (@BBCNews) January 12, 2022

If you say so.

I don’t ‘say so’, it’s just an opinion. There’s no problem if you don’t share it. I’m usually rather quick to criticise Starmer (you may have noticed), but on this occasion he hit the nail on the head. He couldn’t have done much else to be fair, but he still pulled it off perfectly. I fear if Rayner had been doing it she would have lamped him, and Miliband often comes across as if he’s trying to hard to be angry.

Anyway, they need to hammer home the point now. Starmer should be all over the news channels for the next 24 hours, and he should be widening it to ask what the rest of the cabinet and party were doing defending Johnson and making excuses for him.

Chris Bryant was good too

https://twitter.com/kvdzii/status/1481247418566180864

kelvin
Full Member

If you say so. I think Rayner, Miliband and a number of others could have made this a more memorable exchange for voters if he’d not been able to attend today.

The stories in the press would have been about Starmer not being able to do his own dirty work then.

I think SKS lacks charisma in general, but did pretty well today, and it’s even generated some decent comments on the DM (spits) comments.

Fair enough. Still feel like the right words delivered with the wrong voice, in the wrong style, to me. Neutering a hard hitting line. Even he couldn’t neutralise it completely, but it’s hardly a moment that’ll play again again in the minds of voters. “Didn’t miss open goal” isn’t inspirational enough stuff.

Your “widening” point is key there Dazh, and I agree. As/if Johnson blows up, Labour need to make sure the mess is spread across his successors as much as possible in the eyes of the public.

And I’ll make my point again, the Labour front bench need to step up to the plate and get the public considering them as a strong replacement government… Starmer isn’t going to get them into office… it’s down to them.

EDIT: Bryant doing well there. My point doesn’t just apply to front benchers, does it.

I am very conflicted about Raynor – as you say she is a doing a good job sticking the boot in ( a bit like Prescots role) but I find her so untrustworthy and personally unlikable.  I do not see her as a vote winner.

Just me?

She is Marmite. But is often found likeable by those who find Starmer insipid. If they can get their act together, they could be a very good campaigning team.

EDIT: Your Prescott comment there says a lot actually.

Just me?

No not just you, but she’s the best of a bad bunch. Unfortunately she has damaged her credibility with her Damascene conversion from Corbyn to Starmer. If she doesn’t make it to leader after Starmer this will be why. Much like Burnham she worries too much about how people see her rather than sticking to her principles and maintaining her integrity.

Some of the rw media seem to agree that Rayner can definitely put the boot in at the right time.

I think she’s got more reach that I’ve given her credit for.

Trouble is with Starmer is no one’s really talking about him, even after this well time resignation call.

she’s the best of a bad bunch

perhaps trues.  I am not following politics nearly as closely a I used to but she makes me uneasy whereas Cooper and Nandy I simply loathe and Burham is vile.  Lammy?  dunno really . seems to at least have some principles

seems a faint tang of sexism here.  I shall go away and ponder

“I’m John Prescott in a skirt, me!”

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/im-john-prescott-skirt-labour-25733844

When asked whether she could be a future Prime Minister, Rayner again explodes with laughter.

She said: “Do you think the United Kingdom is ready for that”, before adding: “Try before you buy. Put Keir in as PM and me as Deputy, then see how good I am. I reckon I will be good at it. If people are happy then maybe I’ll have a go after him.”

That’s a politically smart answer, isn’t it.

“Shower of shenanigans” is very good

That link to the record has this which I find very patronising from Raynor

I understand the frustration of Scottish voters because I’m from a red wall seat in the north of England.

“Once you’ve lost that trust, it’s really difficult to get it back and we need to do that by showing we are a government in waiting for Scotland and the UK.

Anyone else hear A Rayner on Today this morning?

I am a fan, but she kept saying ‘was you there?’ (referring to BJ).

Sir JP had some rough edges and mangled (and indeed created) words, but even his basic grammar was on point when it concerned such critical, key arguments. And he had dyslexia.

Before she becomes PM, she needs to enhance her grammar 🙂

FWIW SKS did a good job in my view. Not hysterical, and no hyperbole. But Chris Bryant was better.

Just me?

Not just you. I find her irritatingly patronising.

Why I put that quote up is anyone with half an ounce of political nous will know that labours problems in Scotland and in the north of england are two very different issues.

North of england losses were mainly down to brexit and the party not being “strong enough” on immigration – in Scotland its allying themselves with the tories and being too rightwing and having nothing positive to say

She’d make a good second in command, I think. A rotweiller you can set on the opposition at careful strategic intervals.

I really don’t get all the ‘anti Kier’ stuff, and I’ve never voted labour – I want a boring, measured, non-knee jerk, balanced and considered PM.

They can have the charisma of an HP printer for all I care, that’s not an important quality to me in a PM.

Not just you. I find her irritatingly patronising.

I’m sure she’s reading this thread right now learning oh-so-much from a bunch of middle-aged men 😆

Yup- i quite agree and I am going to ponder my views on her.