Viewing 40 posts - 9,361 through 9,400 (of 10,592 total)
  • Sir! Keir! Starmer!
  • Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Doesn’t really answer the question, does it?

    So which policy commitments has he abandoned then?

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    Someone already provided an exhaustive list binners, do keep up.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    An exhaustive list?

    Did they?

    When?

    From memory it’s another one of those questions thats been asked repeatedly and never been properly answered. Like the one about what he’s apparently done to ‘wage war on the left’?

    I’ve heard a load of vague tinfoil-helmet nonsense but nothing specific of any substance.

    Given whats come out over the last couple of days regarding policy commitments it seems very much along the same lines as before.

    Is it because he’s not got a beard?

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    ‘from memory’ = I’ve just made it up based on what I want to believe

    https://evolvepolitics.com/fact-check-yes-keir-starmer-has-broken-or-rowed-back-on-a-large-proportion-of-his-labour-leadership-pledges-already/

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Evolve Politics?

    What a lot of utter guff that link is.

    That’s just a lazy opinion piece consisting entirely of idle speculation by a bunch of lefties on Twitter

    You’ll have to do better than that twoddle, I’m afraid. Tinfoil-helmeted nonsense, the lot of it

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    ‘no one’s posted a list’
    ‘well yes they have but I don’t like it I’m not listening la la la’

    What a lot of utter guff that link is.

    You’re the expert.

    Here’s a less generous version.

    https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/keir-starmers-10-socialist-pledges-forensic-gaslighting/

    It’s again very telling that the supposed Labour member uses the word lefties as an insult. Spoken like a true UKIPer.

    It’s quite funny how you’re getting all belligerent again now that Starmer has had one or two not completely terrible poll results and actually mentioned a policy.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    There’s nothing that’s been said yet that rows back on the 2017 manifesto… you’d hope they were looking to build on, update and improve on that. I don’t think anyone expects them to stick to the 2019 manifesto. Some of the green reforms that didn’t even make it into the 2019 promises because they scared off some (not just the GMB) should hopefully bubble up again and be pushed forward during COP26. That’s what I’d like to see. Go further than Labour did in ‘17 & ‘19 as regards climate change, quality of life, and green jobs.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Oh great! Another opinion piece of idle speculation from another bunch of sub-Canary level lefties on their Twitter echo chamber, except this time they’re Jewish?

    More tinfoil-helmet nonsense

    Do feel feee to post up anything remotely credible if you manage to find it

    Good luck with that

    Handy tip: best not to rely on some graduate with a Twitter account, sat in his bedroom at his mums house as a source of ‘news’

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    Could you point out the specific parts you think are innaccurate binners? Did you even read it? Of course you didn’t – that would require effort.

    You haven’t posted a Monty Python picture for a while, maybe do that again. It never gets old.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    It really doesn’t matter which “policy commitments” he has or hasn’t publicly put the knife to yet… the election will not feature a rewarming of the policy platform of 2019, by any party, or any of the leaders.

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    True, just pointing out that binners is posting angry ‘guff’ and ‘twoddle’ as usual.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Maybe I should set up a Twitter account, develop a keen sense of righteous self-importance and start passing my guff and twoddle off as news?

    I reckon I could come up with a decent logo.

    Seems like there’s a receptive audience for it

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    develop a keen sense of righteous self-importance

    Yeah maybe don’t need to concentrate too much on developing this part.

    Your belligerent, fact-light style would be perfect for Twitter actually.

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    Oh great! Another opinion piece of idle speculation from another bunch of sub-Canary level lefties on their Twitter echo chamber, except this time they’re Jewish?

    Wow. Reported.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Looks like I’ve got myself a new job then comrade.

    I’ll be sure to name-check you upon my first broadcast and again when I pick up my first broadcasting award

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    Doesn’t really answer the question, does it?

    So which policy commitments has he abandoned then?

    We’ve been here before. You called me a liar, I posted the evidence, and you refused to apologise. Confirming your lack of class.

    It’s all in this thread for those who can be bothered. Not binners, obviously.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    What you’ve posted is nothing but the idle, Twitter level musings of some sixth former sat in their bedroom

    You’re seriously posting that bobbins up as a source of ‘news’ to be quoted?

    Premier Icon olddog
    Full Member

    This thread is as much fun as ever

    In terms of policy:

    (a) 2019 manifesto is still policy until replaced
    (b) clearly the manifesto going into the next election will be different – but this is why there is a perceived policy vacuum

    But…

    (c) Senior labour politicians are beginning to reaffirm 2019 labour policy. Like Miliband restating that nationalisation of energy, transport and water is policy. Lammy on abolition of zero hours, £10 minimum wage etc. Burnham pushing wealth tax. Rayner not pulling her punches on Tory sleaze and lies. Hardly the hard left of the party. I think the centerists may need to get used to there being more socialiism in Labour policy than they are comfortable with

    Clearly this is partly positioning before conference, but I’m also getting a vibe that the senior labour team are fed up with Starmer’s approach and think we should be steaming into the Tories whilst they are staggered in the polls.

    Premier Icon dannyh
    Full Member

    I’m totally sure Labour can win back the Red Wall Racists with ‘socialism’.

    🤭

    Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    Binners’ surely you want Keir to denounce Corbyn’s policies? Or are you turning into a lefty after all?

    Premier Icon olddog
    Full Member

    Labour will not win an election unless we change the national political narrative away from the selfish, small minded, little Britain, anti-society, mindless nationalism the Tories have been pushing.

    Pandering through messaging or policies to these views will never work because it’s playing the game by the tory’s rules and it’s inconsistent with Labour’s values (including those under new labour) – so it comes across as insincere and voters know it

    We need to be hammering home the point that Tories are screwing over the poor for the benefit of the rich. And simultaneously socialising the ideas that fairer, flatter society benefits everyone.

    No easy answers, but if we can’t shift the argument we are screwed.

    The constant factional circle jerk, as ably demonstrated on this thread is a real impediment to doing this

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Binners’ surely you want Keir to denounce Corbyn’s policies? Or are you turning into a lefty after all?

    I don’t know how many times I’ve had to say that I’ve never had a problem with most of Grandad’s policies, apart from the really daft ones

    My problem with him was that he was absolutely clueless, without an ounce of political nous, who had spent 3 decades as a completely anonymous backbencher for very good reason. He was punching above his weight even then. And on becoming leader he surrounded himself with muppets on a similar level like Richard Burgon

    He had a unique ability to repel voters and was just all the Tory’s birthdays and Christmases come at once

    And on a personal level: pious, sanctimonious, po-faced, utterly joyless and self-righteous, qualities he shared with a lot of those who weirdly worship him like some Waco style cult leader. I’ve not much time for virtue-signallers

    Premier Icon olddog
    Full Member

    … and yes we can win back the redwall with left wing policy – the cuts to UC and increases to NI will have an impact and we need to be pushing our alternative – jobs, fair pay good services etc

    I grew up in the redwall mining communities of North Derbyshire, and my family still lives there- the nationalist populism is pretty shallow really. It was just a way of expressing discontent thats more to do with the communities being ignored as the investment went into big cities. This should be ready territory for Labour to make some big promises that will benefit peoples lives

    Premier Icon dannyh
    Full Member

    those who weirdly worship him like some Waco style cult leader

    It’s easier to lose and keep your ideological purity than win and have to compromise.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Yep. Never happier than when booing and hissing powerlessly from the sidelines, while wallowing in your own righteousness

    No interest in the messy business of power and the inevitable compromises that entails

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Full Member
    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Bloody hell! Is this reality making a welcome appearance in the Labour Party? That’s progress.

    Depressing that less than half the CLP’s see the obvious advantage to Labour of PR. Especially with the upcoming boundary changes

    Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    PR yes please.

    As for the utter utter bollocks that preceded kimbers post- I am absolutely sure Corbyn tried to win both the 2017 and 2019 elections.

    And as for booing and hissing form the sidelines- **** me! When Corbyn got in the centrists threw a hissy fit x1000 bigger than anything from the left of the party since Keir has been in. Yvette Cooper willing to compromise? Chuka? NO CHANCE!

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    What you’ve posted is nothing but the idle, Twitter level musings of some sixth former sat in their bedroom

    Interesting description of an interview Starmer gave to the Guardian. But you knew that.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    It’s easier to lose and keep your ideological purity than win and have to compromise.

    Quite so. Those Labour members who worked so hard to undermine Corbyn have much to answer for.

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    Oh great! Another opinion piece of idle speculation from another bunch of sub-Canary level lefties on their Twitter echo chamber, except this time they’re Jewish?

    More tinfoil-helmet nonsense

    So; I reported this post last night, then decided to sleep on it. Because I found it extremely offensive. Because I felt that Binners was dismissing the opinions of Jewish people, who have as much right to have their voices heard as anyone, and hurling abuse at those whom he sees as having different opinions to his own. But why it’s particularly offensive, is that many of the members of Jewish Voice for Labour are in fact very intelligent, well educated and knowledgable people, not the ‘tinfoil helmet’ brigade Binners likes to portray them as. Such people have been long term, even lifelong members of the Labour Party, and have fought and campaigned tirelessly against racism and injustice in our society, and for greater equality, improved Human rights, etc etc. They, as much as anyone, want to see the end to tory rule.

    I find the level of abuse directed towards such groups, and ‘lefties’ in general, by Binners, to be utterly abhorrent; such people have done more to further the cause against division and inequality in our society, than pretty much anyone in the current PLP. The kind of grassroots campaigners and activists we need in order to create any semblance of opposition to tory rule. People who have as much right to be in the Labour Party as anyone else. The current drive by Starmer to eject such people, simply for not accepting his right-wing neoliberal view, is very worrying, and in the case of JVL members, moves towards actual, real anti-Semitism. The ‘wrong type’ of Jews. By insulting and abusing such people, Binners is aiding and abetting such dictatorial moves, which should be of concern to anyone who is truly committed to democracy and equality.

    So Binners; I will politely, and as respectfully as I can, ask you to stop with all the slurs and abuse of ‘lefties’. There’s no need for it. Nobody else on here has been as vitriolic and hateful as you, towards people who you should be seeing as your allies, even though you might not agree with them. Or just leave the thread altogether.

    I don’t know how many times I’ve had to say that I’ve never had a problem with most of Grandad’s policies, apart from the really daft ones

    My problem with him was that he was absolutely clueless, without an ounce of political nous, who had spent 3 decades as a completely anonymous backbencher for very good reason. He was punching above his weight even then. And on becoming leader he surrounded himself with muppets on a similar level like Richard Burgon

    He had a unique ability to repel voters and was just all the Tory’s birthdays and Christmases come at once

    And on a personal level: pious, sanctimonious, po-faced, utterly joyless and self-righteous, qualities he shared with a lot of those who weirdly worship him like some Waco style cult leader. I’ve not much time for virtue-signallers

    So; if you don’t have a problem with Corbyn’s actual policies, then just drop the abuse. All it does is detract form what should be the real goal; to bring the party back together again under a common purpose. All that is achieved with such partisan behaviour, is further division, which really does make things much easier for the tories. As has been explained time and again; it’s really not the ‘lefties’ that have created the toxic divisions we’re now seeing in the party.

    This thread is about Kier Starmer, and how he is failing to unite the party and be able to form any sort of viable opposition tot he tories. Let’s try to stay on topic.

    Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    Lets see how the conference goes. I’m more optimistic than I was last week & I think I’m more optimistic than most. I still think Keir could win.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    Nobody else on here has been as vitriolic and hateful as you

    Apart from your good self…Your tactic appears to be 1. Use an Ad-hom attack, than when you get a reply in a similar way, complain about Ad-hom attacks, or 2, use subtle anti Semitic remarks and then protest loudly and vociferously when many folks call you out for doing so, using it to repeatedly exclaim your innocence and accusing others of Ad-hom attacks and being anti-Semitic (again) It’s tedious and derails the thread.

    If you’re asking Binners to calm down, then apply the same critique to yourself.

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    Apart from your good self…Your tactic appears to be 1. Use an Ad-hom attack, than when you get a reply in a similar way, complain about Ad-hom attacks, or 2, use subtle anti Semitic remarks and then protest loudly and vociferously when many folks call you out for doing so, using it to repeatedly exclaim your innocence and accusing others of Ad-hom attacks and being anti-Semitic (again) It’s tedious and derails the thread.

    Please do point out where I’ve actually been ‘anti-Semitic’. Oh now wait; you can’t, because that’s never happened, and you don’t actually know what Anti-Semitism really is, besides knowing nothing about me, or my cultural background, life, experiences etc. Look; I know you want to have something to attack me for, but making shit up only makes you look like a ****. and I’m sure you don’t want to look like a ****. And anyway; this was directed towards Binners, I’m sure he’s more than capable of looking after himself, and doesn’t need anyone speaking for him. Thanks.

    This thread is about Kier Starmer, and how he is failing to unite the party and be able to form any sort of viable opposition to the tories. Let’s try to stay on topic.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    That went as well as I expected

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    That went as well as I expected

    So; you expected me to ask you to prove your offensive and completely false claims? That you’re totally unable to substantiate? Blimey. Kind of strange that you’d post something knowing you’d end up looking a bit stupid. But hey.

    This thread is about Kier Starmer, and how he is failing to unite the party and be able to form any sort of viable opposition to the tories. Let’s try to stay on topic.

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    That went as well as I expected

    Your post was basically whataboutery though. There was a specific complaint about the abusive dismissal of JVL, who are themselves the target of masses of anti Semitic abuse (they are the wrong type of Jews, self-hating Jews etc) and have found their (Jewish) members being ejected on mass for anti-semitism, merely for supporting Corbyn’s contention that AS was weaponised against the left.

    It’s a crazy situation and anyone who claims to care about the Labour party should be up in arms about it, rather than abusing them further.

    The daughter of a Holocaust survivor who is a lifelong labour and anti-racist activist has been called a nazi concentration camp collaborator and kicked out of the Labour party for anti-semitism. Along with dozens of other Jewish labour members. Let that sink in for a moment.

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    Bridges, you are one of the people on this thread who come across very badly, over reacting, jumping on things that were not intended, insulting etc,. And that is on what is probably the worst thread on this forum for nasty bickering so quite an an achievement. I think many people should take a look at how they are coming across on this thread as it certainly isn’t nice.

    By the way I didn’t read Binners comment as dismissing the opinions of Jewish people he was just pointing out that it is just more opinions (rather than facts) but this time from a Jewish angle, i.e. more of the same.

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    JVL said the scale of disciplinary action from Labour meant over four times more Jewish than non-Jewish Labour Party members have faced actioned complaints of anti-semitism.

    Well, there’s at least one example of Starmer rowing back on a promise; in this instance to ‘tackle anti-Semitism’. He’s gone and done the opposite; expelled Jewish people from the party instead. Way to go, Keir.

    By the way I didn’t read Binners comment as dismissing the opinions of Jewish people

    I did. And I reported it as such. Look how we can have very different opinions about something? Isn’t that wonderful? Sir Keir doesn’t agree with me though, sadly. 🙁

    Bridges, you are one of the people on this thread who come across very badly, over reacting, jumping on things that were not intended, insulting etc

    Wow. Lack of self-awareness, much?

    Kerley; you’ve already apologised to me for your mistakes, so, perhaps maybe go and think about that a bit? Thanks.

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    By the way I didn’t read Binners comment as dismissing the opinions of Jewish people

    He wasn’t dismissing them because they are Jewish but he absolutely was dismissing the opinions of Jewish people. Lifelong Jewish labour members/activists no longer welcome in the party, being heaped with further abuse, supposedly because of their anti-Semitism. It’s really not a good look.

    Of course they are opinions re the pledges, but they are a informed opinions with specific references to the pledges, and statements by shadow ministers and SKS. What else could there be?

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