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  • Sir! Keir! Starmer!
  • Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    The fact that Dawn Butler is punished for stating the obvious, while Johnson continues to spout lie after lie with total impunity just demonstrates how ****ed our political system is

    It stands as a metaphor for the UK in 2021

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    The fact that Dawn Butler is punished for stating the obvious, while Johnson continues to spout lie after lie with total impunity just demonstrates how ****ed our political system is

    It stands as a metaphor for the UK in 2021

    Dawn Butler could have said the same thing in different words and not been punished. She did it for the activists, I imagine they loved it. No representation in parliament for her constituency for a few days

    Metaphor for labour in 2021

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    Why not put your money where your mouth is, and do something useful, instead of spouting ignorant deluded shite on here every. single. day?

    The ironing…..

    Rod Liddle; red wine and mustard stains on his shirt…

    Is this some form of code? Is it a 50 cent army thing, do you have a man crush?

    Premier Icon nickc
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    No representation in parliament for her constituency for a few days

    It’s Summer recess, is it not? So timed to that I’d imagine.

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    It’s Summer recess, is it not? So timed to that I’d imagine.

    Good point, at least the timing is smart. Is she on manoeuvres for the leadership?

    Premier Icon nickc
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     Is she on manoeuvres for the leadership?

    On the basis that she can probably walk and chew at the same time? Probably should be

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    doesn’t have Brexit, nor the tirade of character assassinations

    Well, he does. No excuses though, he’s still doing even worse than I feared he would.

    Is she on manoeuvres for the leadership?

    Presumably she’ll stand to be deputy leader again, if the current deputy stands to be leader. I’m not looking for any cynical motivations for what she did yesterday though. More should call Johnson out on the parliamentary record, as he keeps lying to parliament and not facing any consequences to do so. Her LBC interview was spot on as regards pointing out why truth still matters, and why acting as if it no longer does is so dangerous. Worth a listen.

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    The ironing…..

    Coming from someone who keeps trolling with accusations of people using ‘tropes’ (and even admits it’s all made up). Are you an Alanis Morisette fan? xD

    do you have a man crush?

    Veiled attempt at some sort of homophobic slur? An explanation would be good.

    Premier Icon nickc
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    I’m not looking for any cynical motivations for what she did yesterday though

    Nope me neither, just looked like it was borne of frustration.

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    Dawn Butler could have said the same thing in different words and not been punished. She did it for the activists, I imagine they loved it. No representation in parliament for her constituency for a few days

    The Deputy Speaker then ordered Ms Butler to withdraw from the Commons for the rest of the day’s sitting.

    Don’t let facts spoil your rhetoric, eh?

    Challenging the archaic and outdated ‘rules’ of Parliament takes courage. Shame Armrest hasn’t got any.

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    More should call Johnson out on the parliamentary record, as he keeps lying to parliament and not facing any consequences to do so.

    There could be a tactic for Starmer here, a bit sixth form politics but could get traction. Simply put a MP up every day to call out a lie. Bound to get on the news and the lie gets discussed.

    Juvenile but maybe where he needs to go

    An explanation would be good.

    you are the one who keeps mentioning Rod Liddell and what he is wearing or eating and drinking, as for a slur I’ve no idea what gender you are and in the context of this place half of STW have a man crush on Cav which I’m sure doesn’t involve anything sexual.

    If it’s not that, is it a secret code or 50 cent army thing?

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    If it’s not that, is it a secret code or 50 cent army thing?

    You don’t need to worry yourself about that.

    as for a slur I’ve no idea what gender you are

    Or sexuality, or indeed anything else. So why not refrain from ad hominems? You could just as easily have said ‘are you a fan of Rod Liddle’s? Instead, you used the term ‘man crush’. Why?

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    What could have been really powerful, would have been if all the other Labour MPs present got up and walked out too, in solidarity with their colleague. Whilst chanting ‘Liar!’ at Boris. That would have been very powerful. But, alas, Butler is on the ‘wrong’ side….

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    No excuses though, he’s still doing even worse than I feared he would.

    Yes, we can all see he is doing dreadfully. I thought it was worth a try when he became leader as a bit of a change, potential different approach but it became clear after a few months that he was not good and never will be. That is the issue here, everyone know he is not doing well at the job (probably including himself) but he continues anyway until when, another few years?

    The lack of anyone obvious who would be great is not really relevant, they should at least be given a chance at doing a better job than him.

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    So why not refrain from ad hominems?

    More ironing….

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    More ironing….

    Ok Balders. XD

    Have a nice weekend.

    Premier Icon Klunk
    Free Member

    Dawn Butler could have said the same thing in different words and not been punished. She did it for the activists, I imagine they loved it. No representation in parliament for her constituency for a few days

    Metaphor for labour in 2021

    yet she managed to get more column inches in one act than Starmer has managed in 6 months.

    Premier Icon grum
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    The loony left are at it again with their crazy nationalisation schemes. Oh wait…

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/28/sheffield-forgemasters-nationalised-after-takeover-ministry-of-defence

    Anyone believe Starmer would have had the balls to do something like this? Me neither.

    Premier Icon BillMC
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    If they were any good with the spyware he could have argued for nationalisation before the deal went public. Alternatively, he could argue for the privatisation of the Royal Yacht. Nope, thought not.

    Premier Icon ernielynch
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    The loony left are at it again with their crazy nationalisation schemes.

    The Guardian article leaves out an important detail :

    “The MOD has already started working closely with the company to implement best practice governance that will ensure appropriate financial oversight to secure the company’s future success, with the aim eventually to return the business to the private sector.”

    That paragraph is from the government’s website:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-to-acquire-sheffield-forgemasters-international-limited

    So the British people will pay to buy the company, pump £400million investment into it, and then at some point, presumably when it is making a nice healthy profit, it will be privatised again.

    A strategy which appears to be enthusiastically supported by Starmer’s shadow business secretary Ed Miliband.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    So the British people will pay to buy the company, pump £400million investment into it, and then at some point, presumably when it is making a nice healthy profit, it will be privatised again.

    It is very odd isn’t it that the public/labour party seem to have accepted the government’s role as the debt relief vehicle of dysfunctional businesses, but can’t make the next logical leap of faith to support the continued ownership of those companies by the state. There’s an (old) idea for labour here, which should be that any company or business which accepts government rescue money must be legally bound to limit executive pay and suspend shareholder dividends and pay a living wage etc. They won’t though, because they don’t have the media skills to present such a policy without being branded as communist nationalisers.

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    It is very odd isn’t it that the public/labour party seem to have accepted the government’s role as the debt relief vehicle of dysfunctional businesses, but can’t make the next logical leap of faith to support the continued ownership of those companies by the state.

    I’d arms length it into a sovereign wealth fund. Civil Servants don’t have a good record running businesses.

    Obviously we would need to create a sovereign wealth fund….

    Usefully would stop the sale of other stuff to American PE funds

    Open goal for Starmer based on the pharma pricing fines rolling through at the moment

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    Open goal for Starmer

    Not his strong point, he seems to be facing the wrong way most of the time.

    Premier Icon nickc
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    So the British people will pay to buy the company, pump £400million investment into it, and then at some point, presumably when it is making a nice healthy profit, it will be privatised again.

    Well, it’s the Tories having to put right at greater expenses a restructure that was cancelled by Cameron as part of austerity. I genuinely doubt it makes “a healthy profit” but does have genuine strategic importance to country; it makes top secret bits for submarines,  I’d imagine that probably reduces Forgemaster’s ability to raise capital from foreign investors. This way 600 people get to keep their jobs (presumably you’re happy about that) we still retain the capability to make the pressure vessel bits for subs (that’s an arguable point admittedly) but it wants to grow into making large scale windfarms for the Dogger bank, so at least the investment made now will reap benefits in the longer term for out carbon emissions

    Premier Icon BillMC
    Full Member

    Post-war nationalisations were not aimed at delivering some sort of socialised economy but rather to subsidise and support the regeneration of private businesses. Nothing new here. The labour theory of value applies in the same way to nationalised as in private businesses but I suppose it’s preferable for surplus value to accrue to, ultimately, the taxpayer rather than the shareholder. The idea that nationalised industries are run by civil servants is straight out of the DM, as if private ‘enterprise’ provides the superior supply of pharmaceuticals or public transport, ludicrous and laughable.

    Premier Icon ernielynch
    Free Member

    Civil Servants don’t have a good record running businesses.

    So you are assuming that since the private sector has failed to ran SFIL as a successful business nationalisation will be an even greater failure, and it will never again make a profit?

    Why did the private sector buy a failing business from the government in the first place?

    According to the government website :

    The MOD also intends to invest up to £400 million for defence critical plant, equipment and infrastructure into SFIL over the next 10 years to support defence outputs. The acquisition has been assessed as the best value for money for the tax payer due to the unique capabilities and circumstances.

    So it would appear that the present Tory government, of all people, has a reasonable degree of confidence in the business abilities of civil servants. Especially if they visualise SFIL eventually being profitably enough to be returned to the private sector.

    Btw since Tory sympathisers have effectively been purged from stw political threads but some LibDem supporters remain, it’s worth noting that when Vince Cable was the coalition government’s business secretary he reversed the previous Labour government’s decision to provide Sheffield Forgemasters with a £80m loan.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-11545188

    What made the LibDem business secretary’s decision particularly interesting of course was that the LibDem leader, Nick Clegg, represented Sheffield in parliament.

    The LibDems did partially backtrack a year later when they decided to provide SFIL with less than half the original loan.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/31/sheffield-forgemasters-nick-clegg-jobs.

    The LibDems contempt for the people who voted for them did have consequences however and in 2017 Nick Clegg lost his seat to a Corbyn led Labour Party.

    Premier Icon ernielynch
    Free Member

    The idea that nationalised industries are run by civil servants is straight out of the DM

    That was one of the arguments used by the Tories against the creation of the NHS, ie doctors would become “civil servants”.

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    since Tory sympathisers have effectively been purged from stw political threads

    Who has the power to purge people? Or do you mean people ask awkward questions?

    Premier Icon ernielynch
    Free Member

    Yeah I mean there used to be Tory sympathisers on stw political threads but there isn’t any more. I’ll let you figure out how that came about.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Hasn’t everyone to the right of Dennis Skinner given up on the political threads now?

    Blairite/centrist/Tory bastards!

    Now its just a Corbynite circle-jerk. The sense of pious, righteous, permanently-affronted sanctimony is now so large its developed its own gravitational pull

    Premier Icon BillMC
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    It’d be truly fascinating to hear from tory sympathisers explaining and justifying recent events. I Keep seeing this word ‘sanctimonious’, is the opposite of that understood as a virtue?

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    That was one of the arguments used by the Tories against the creation of the NHS, ie doctors would become “civil servants”.

    And doctors at the time, GPs are private partnerships as are dentists. The NHS has had a mixed delivery model since it’s inception

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    So you are assuming that since the private sector has failed to ran SFIL as a successful business nationalisation will be an even greater failure, and it will never again make a profit?

    More an after feeling after being in a Morris Ital as a kid

    My point is that we should have a sovereign wealth fund for stuff like this rather than having a divestment strategy

    Premier Icon ernielynch
    Free Member

    Now its just a Corbynite circle-jerk. The sense of pious, righteous, permanently-affronted sanctimony is now so large its developed its own gravitational pull

    “The sense of pious, righteous, permanently-affronted sanctimony” sounds very much like the Ramsbottom Flouncer to me binners. Who do you think you are talking about?

    And who are all these Corbyn supporters on stw political threads that you think are sufficient to form a circle?

    Premier Icon ernielynch
    Free Member

    More an after feeling after being in a Morris Ital as a kid

    You mean the Morris Ital designed by the private sector and not UK government civil servants?

    The clue is in “Ital”. Yes it refers to Italy, not the UK government.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    sufficient to form a circle?

    More like a triangle. Maybe a quadrilateral.

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    Whereas the Blairites/’centrists’/tories on here form a sort of Human centipede…

    the Ramsbottom Flouncer

    😀 Lol!

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    You mean the Morris Ital designed by the private sector and not UK government civil servants?

    Built by?

    It took its name from Giorgetto Giugiaro’s Italdesign studio, which had been employed by BL to manage the re-engineering of the Morris Marina, which had been produced by the company since 1971. Although BL’s advertising emphasised the car’s connection with the Italian design house, Italdesign did not have a direct role in the styling of the new car, which had been handled in-house by Harris Mann. Italdesign had been involved in a consultancy role, to help design new tooling and assembly methods, and work out how to integrate the altered parts of the new car into the existing Marina production chain. That is why, despite bearing the studio’s name, the Ital is absent from lists of styling jobs handled by the firm.

    Premier Icon ernielynch
    Free Member

    Harris Mann was not a civil servant. He was already working for BL when it was part-nationalised 4 years after Morris Marina production started. The level of involvement of Italdesign in the design of the Ital variant doesn’t in any way provide evidence that it was a car designed by civil servants.

    I’m sure there must be better examples of a badly run nationalised company than that of a company which was part- nationalised for about 11 years due the catastrophic private sector failure, and which most of its nationalised existence was under the control of a woman who despised nationalised industries, except bizarrely the NHS and the Royal Mail.

    Premier Icon dazh
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    Came across the McLibel documentary this evening which amazingly I’ve not seen before despite being invoved in the anti-McDonalds campaign back in the 90s and it’s striking to see the involvement of Starmer. It’s the main reason I voted for him as leader thinking no one who was involved in that epic david vs goliath campaign could be pro-establishment but I guess I was very naive. It’s tragic really.

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