Do really think as many people are saying “I’m not voting Labour because it’s full of organisations which I have never heard of such as Socialist Appeal” as are saying “I’m not voting Labour because I haven’t got a clue what they stand for and their leader doesn’t inspire me”?

There are many people who are utterly turned off by a Labour Party always at war with itself, mostly over issues that concern them not one jot. Starmer has failed to change that image of the Party. Campaign groups that are designed to damage the party, and run by people outside it, are part of the problem as well.

The second issue is also true, people are not inspired by Starmer… as I predicted in 2019. They never will be.

I very much doubt that you do and your comment was just simply a need to have a dig at the left.

No, a dig at each and every one of those campaign groups listed as likely to be proscribed. Not a dig at “the left” more generally… which in my opinion is 80% plus of Labour members, and a good 40% of its voters.

Labour is already run by people outside the party wanting to damage it. They say jump, Armrest requests information on altitude. He is fulfilling his role perfectly. He just doesn’t know it. Yet.

The Unions? They essentially funded the 2019 GE campaign.

I know the right wingers on here desperately to want to blame ‘lefties’, but I think even they are starting to slowly wake up to the reality that the game all along was to reduce Labour to nothing more than a political irrelevance, and no threat to global corporate interests.

Whose game?

Most politicians of any colour agree on the need for an effective opposition for parliamentary democracy to work.

So Google, apple, Starbucks, etc in the tax dodging global entities.

Sovereign wealth funds?

Or other “forces”

Dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig…..

Dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig…..

Clearly some reference beyond me.

Is it a 50 cent army thing?

When unions are putting in £5m of a 2019 £5.4m GE spend for JC I can see why he’s so beholden to other donations…. not

The £4m of individual donations to the Brexit party was a good scam for them

The Unions? They essentially funded the 2019 GE campaign.

I take it you know that each union member can choose whether or not to donate to Labour?

If only those he is fighting with also put more effort into fighting the Tories than the Labour party leader.

This is one of the most ridiculous things you’ve ever posted, and there is healthy competition on that front.

are just as much part of the problem as Starmer. And run by people outside the party wanting to damage it.

Oh wait there’s this too.

I take it you know that each union member can choose whether or not to donate to Labour?

As I understand it they agree to contribute to the political fund.
I did for 30 years.

Union then distributes or uses it to pay libel awards

As I understand it they agree to contribute to the political fund.

Absolutely no obligation to do so.

I’m a union member and had to opt in to donate to Labour.

The second issue is also true, people are not inspired by Starmer… as I predicted in 2019. They never will be.

Who can inspire who is a sitting labour MP?

One aspect of this could be that the policy vacuum is due to the risk that Boris will steal all the best ideas. Boris doesn’t have any principles but does have an eye for things that go down well with the electorate and will happily jump on any bandwagon.

Or conference is the big reveal, remember he hasn’t had one yet as leader

Go on then Grum, pick one of those campaign groups named in the Guardian that you support think should not be excluded, and we can discus their stated motivations and who runs them.

remember he hasn’t had one yet as leader

Yep, and it’s probably far too late now to use one to build up his momentum. His opportunity has gone (if he was ever going to have one). He’ll be gone by the next election.

I’m a union member and had to opt in to donate to Labour.

Your point is?

Unions are still massively important to labour GE campaigns, they also have an influence on policy. It’s not a surprise, they dwarf other contributors.

Which is why allegations that Starmer has been bought for lose change seems odd. Or the sort of thing you would say if you were undermining him. I imagine Starmer was spending a lot of time on zoom calls with Union leaders to ensure the taps didn’t get turned off.

Yep, and it’s probably far too late now to use one to build up his momentum. His opportunity has gone (if he was ever going to have one). He’ll be gone by the next election.

There’s a chance, it gets full coverage, something barnstorming might cut through.

It shouldn’t be all about him though, if the front bench are missing the target then the mountain gets higher

Your point is?

Unions are still massively important to labour GE campaigns, they also have an influence on policy. It’s not a surprise, they dwarf other contributors.

Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

“Union” donations are in fact individual decisions by individual members. Which is one reason why it’s a heck of a lot more democratic than corporate donations.

Miliband at his worst, the union funding issue. Over and over Cameron threw “you’re funded by unions!” at him and he just went sorry, sorry, yes, I know, sorry. Literally 2 things he had to say:

Union donations are actually donations made by union members, I’ve no problem receiving donations from everyday working people. You’re funded by millionaires, you bought-and-paid-for hypocrite.

80% of Tory donations for the last election came from the Leader’s Group which has a minimum £50000 donation and literally buys you dinner meetings with the PM at Downing Street and Chequers and direct access to cabinet ministers. Just 15 donors provided £4.4m. 20% of the Leaders’ Group have received an Honour after their donation (as of 2019). And as the Leader’s Group donations have gone up and up, they’ve broken David Cameron’s pledge on openness and stopped publishing the details of who is donating. Oh, 97% of the people at the dinners and meetings are male.

But boo unions!

To be fair it was Tony Blair who popularised the idea that any close relationship with the trade unions was toxic for Labour.

Blair made it much easier for David Cameron to exploit that theme. And Ed Miliband was a naive party apparatchik out of his depth.

Buying Sir Kim for loose change is a vile trope.

Who can inspire who is a sitting labour MP?

One aspect of this could be that the policy vacuum is due to the risk that Boris will steal all the best ideas. Boris doesn’t have any principles but does have an eye for things that go down well with the electorate and will happily jump on any bandwagon.

That is the problem they have, get rid of Starmer and replace with?
Their strategy should be to first find someone who will be a popular front man for the voters and get them into a safe seat and then make them leader. That would be pretty much impossible within the current process of leadership though.

As for stealing ideas, that is where Starmer is most useless. He doesn’t know how to play politics. NHS pay rise was an easy one. Should have said Labour would give 15%, Tories end up giving 3% boo but actually said they would give 2.1%, Tories give 3.1%, hooray

Buying Sir Kim for loose change is a vile trope.

I agree, anyone saying the labour leader has been bought should take a long look at themselves

As for policies there are some easy wins that would be unpalatable for Boris. Favourite on here is nationalising water, except what you do is do it only for the failing companies such as Southern and only after you have inspected them to demonstrate the issues to negate any value or payment to shareholders (asset underinvestment would be significant and a lot of kit they claim is operational won’t be, add in future liabilities and you should get there. Same for the power companies if they are playing the same game.

Green and pleasant land, grip and fund EA and NE, enable prosecution, stiffen penalties demand performance from the regulators. Tie in with investment in land management to also get a massive carbon and flood management benefit.

Green steel, solve the coking coal problem by making UK steel green, strategic investment in West Cumbria to offset the lost mine opportunity

Etc

Apparently he is going for crime as the next initiative

It is not quite as catchy as “tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime”, but Keir Starmer’s pledge “to drive down crime, tackle its root causes and ensure that criminals are brought to justice” will be an important part of the period between now and the next election.

He really needs someone who can create a snappy, catchy phrase for these things

Arguably it’s a good place to stand for him, but GMP and Burnham’s weaknesses provide a soft under belly. He can tear into Grayling’s legacy, talk about justice denied, a system paralyzed, ungoverned spaces, police and agencies morale at rock bottom, prison reform neglected.

Can he do it all via zoom?

Forget Burnham. He’s just a Poundshop Starmer.

agree, anyone saying the labour leader has been bought should take a long look at themselves

Lol! Do you not know how politics actually works? Have you forgotten Tony Blair? The only Labour leader who hasn’t been bought, is Corbyn. It was principles, and his refusal to be bought by corporate and capitalist interests, the led to his demise. Starmer’s been for sale for ages; it’s just that nobody’s all that interested in a stale, boring product.

It was principles, and his refusal to be bought by corporate and capitalist interests, the led to his demise

Other interpretations are available for the less deluded/non cult members/people who’ve finished their A levels

It was actually the fact that he was absolutely ****ing hopeless and lost two consecutive elections that led to his demise

Speaking of stale and tired products… 😀 Like a moth to a flame.

Have you paid that tenner to that charity yet?

Rod Liddle; spitting crisps all over himself…

You seem to be unfamiliar with the basic concept of betting.

Let me explain: When you offer up a bet, the other party has to accept it

Simple, isn’t it?

Maybe you better reconsider that career as a bookie?

Anyway: all STW bets are in the currency of Greggs vouchers. Everybody knows that

Let me explain: When you offer up a bet, the other party has to accept it

The TnCs are up there in black and white. Why not put your money where your mouth is, and do something useful, instead of spouting ignorant deluded shite on here every. single. day?

I’ll go a bit further. For every week that you stay off this thread, I’ll pay £25 to that charity. Or maybe you don’t have the balls to face up to such a challenge?

Balls?

Challenge?

What on earth are you blathering on about?

Why do you even care whether I post on a thread or not? What conceivable difference does it make to anyone?

You’re off your ****ing napper

So; you could actually make some positive difference in society, but your need for attention means you’ll just continue to spout shite instead. Because that’s obviously more important to you. At least we have now firmly established that.

Rod Liddle; little bit of vomit comes out as he rants…

Ooh look! It’s learned to post gifs now! Isn’t it clever? Bless.

No but seriously. £25. Per week.

Rod Liddle; bit of mayonnaise on his vest…

I can’t comprehend why you even care?

You know that I’m not real, right? I’m a leftie-baiting bot in a server farm in Murmansk? And that arguing on an interweb forum is effectively shouting into a shipping container?

£25. Per week.

Rod Liddle; burps Chow Mein all over himself…

I’d miss you too much. Admit it, you’d miss me too, wouldn’t you hun? X

£25. Per Week.

Rod Liddle; red wine and mustard stains on his shirt…

It was actually the fact that he was absolutely ****ing hopeless and lost two consecutive elections that led to his demise

Okay so your guy appears to be doing worse, and yet doesn’t have Brexit, nor the tirade of character assassinations. Neither does he have Tom Watson, Austin or Mann to deal with.

But he has your support. So let’s talk about his work shall we?

How do you think Starmer is doing?

I wouldn’t expect any form of coherent answer, Rone. That would be a major break from tradition…

How do you think Starmer is doing?

I think he’s doing absolutely terribly, to be honest.

Along with pretty much everyone else, I’m absolutely mystified as to why he’s being so consistently timid and refusing to engage with the Torys, when he’s had countless opportunities that have just gone begging

With Corbyn, when faced with an open net he’d always spoon it into Row Z, With Starmer he won’t even shoot. God only knows why.

The silence from the labour front bench when faced with the rolling car crash of the last 12 months is absolutely inexplicable and unforgivable.

I’ve all but given up hope of ever seeing a labour government, and that is unbelievably depressing

Can’t see the point in the rant then😄

A nice little recap of why and how we can pay more wages to the NHS workers or any function of the state.

The government gave some staff in the NHS a pay rise yesterday, and then said that the cost must come out of existing NHS budgets. It refused a pay rise to the police. It’s as if they’re saying there is a shortage of money. There isn’t. A thread’s needed to explain that…..

— Richard Murphy (@RichardJMurphy) July 23, 2021

Thread it out.

My favourite pick.

Understanding this is vital to appreciating what is going on in modern politics. It is also key to understanding the biggest lie (I use the word appropriately) told by politicians of almost all parties which is ‘there is no money to do what people want’.

— Richard Murphy (@RichardJMurphy) July 23, 2021

To reiterate: the government spends its own money. It does not spend money that taxpayers have given to it.

— Richard Murphy (@RichardJMurphy) July 23, 2021

With Corbyn, when faced with an open net he’d always spoon it into Row Z, With Starmer he won’t even shoot. God only knows why

Corbyn was always stuck in a zero sum game. Starmer doesn’t really have that.

Fair comments.

I think it’s important to see this once more:

I’m just hoping the rumours are true (IIRC it was in the Guardian) that the first thing Kier Starmer is going to do is have a night of the long knives to clear out every last one of the utterly useless Corbynites, both on the front bench and behind the scenes, and actually appoint some people who are capable of finding their own arses using both hands.

I’m also hoping that involves firing Richard Burgon into the sun.

There needs to be a Kinnock/Militant style purge to even think dragging the labour party back from its Corbynite political irrelevence, where its presently languishing in its own delusional ‘we won the argument’ bullshit

Then, finally, when pushed on how that’s actually working out:

I think he’s doing absolutely terribly, to be honest.

😀 Lol! You don’t need any A-Levels to work that out! It must sting, that. Try a bit of Germolene.

Good to see Dawn Butler sticking to her principles, and refusing to retract her comments about Boris being a liar. If only Armrest had such courage…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57927398

Dawn Butler was just on LBC and she just said we are in a system that defends the liars, as we move to a Trumpian stage.

She said she was sick of the amount of lies.

I like this basic passion in an MP.