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  • Sir! Keir! Starmer!
  • Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    I have always accepted racism is in the majority (in all countries) to some degree.
    Seems to be in most peoples nature and part of being a tribal species. I think it was kept bottled up for 20 years in the UK as was seen as unacceptable so only mentioned in private but social media and populist politicians have opened it up over the last decade and people now feel it is more acceptable that it has been for a while.

    Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    You’d think the BNP would get more votes.

    Even Ukip only got 10-12% didn’t they?

    Premier Icon johnx2
    Free Member

    I also said that Tony Blair is an arch-blairite Labour politician, which apparently was an issue for johnx2

    Tautology is always an issue for me. Capitalising Blair but not Blairite I can more or less overlook.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    And so we are where we are. Who’s Labour leader is largely academic

    I see we’ve transitioned from “everything is Corbyn’s fault” to “there’s nothing anyone can do”.

    Premier Icon sobriety
    Free Member

    Both can be true if the mess left from his stint as leader is too big to fix in one election cycle.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    We do need to remember that Corbyn also inherited “a mess”.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    “there’s nothing anyone can do”

    That’s Starmer entire MO isn’t it? Expect to see it on the side of a bus very soon. And people wonder why his poll ratings are plummeting.

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    You’d think the BNP would get more votes.

    Even Ukip only got 10-12% didn’t they?

    Not really, which is why I said “racism is in the majority (in all countries) to some degree

    Only the racists who put it above all else would vote BNP or UKIP. That doesn’t mean that people who vote Labour or Tory are not racist to some degree, however small.

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    I see we’ve transitioned from “everything is Corbyn’s fault” to “there’s nothing anyone can do”.

    I don’t think their is anything anyone can do at the moment, especially looking at who could technically be Labour leader, i.e. a current MP.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Why vote BNP when the Tories make such a good show of making “others” feel unwelcome here?

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    That’s Starmer entire MO isn’t it? Expect to see it on the side of a bus very soon. And people wonder why his poll ratings are plummeting.

    Quite. We’ll not know if there’s something to be done unless he decides to saddle up. I’m not holding my breath.

    Premier Icon rone
    Free Member

    After the Batley and Spen by-election could be make or break for Starmer.

    But there will be an even more useless to-the-right option if he does step down, that I’m sure.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    I don’t think their is anything anyone can do at the moment

    Do you struggle to get out of bed in the morning? This is just defeatist nonsense. There’s tons that can be done, but it needs someone – anyone – with some energy and motivation to do it. As I’ve said many times, not only does Starmer lack that energy, I strongly suspect he has no interest in doing anything because he’s focused on internal matters rather than opposing the tories.

    Premier Icon rone
    Free Member

    I don’t think their is anything anyone can do at the moment, especially looking at who could technically be Labour leader, i.e. a current MP.

    Certainly a challenge, but things do change quickly in politics and there’s always something brewing.

    And Starmer for my money was never a good choice. (You can check my thoughts from ages ago.) Some people thought he was. Didn’t make it so.

    However I didn’t think he would be this awful, and frankly this incompetent.

    Premier Icon rone
    Free Member

    Do you struggle to get out of bed in the morning? This is just defeatist nonsense.

    Yep. It’s like saying my choice hasn’t worked out so there can’t possibly be another solution.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    But there will be an even more useless to-the-right option

    Almost certainly Rachel Reeves. There’s not been a more tory labour MP in a senior position since Blair. It’ll probably be a 3-way fight between her, Rayner and Miliband, with Lewis as the token lefty. Jess Philips’ rampant ego will probably stick it’s oar in too, with the same success as last time.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Certainly a challenge, but things do change quickly in politics and there’s always something brewing.

    Who then Rone? If he goes now, who steps forward to take on the challenge…?

    There’s not been a more tory labour MP in a senior position since Blair.

    “Tory”, in what way? Can we not get to the point where Labour people we don’t align with aren’t branded “tories”? What is that lazy shorthand for in this case? Pushing for more private company involvement in providing public services?

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    Rayner. Unless Burnham is willing to give up his mayorship, she’s the only one who can fight the culture war.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    She’s put herself in a great position to be favourite (and I think she is). I think she’d get a short bounce, due to coming across as more passionate, straight talking, and “fresh” than Starmer (who isn’t?!). Don’t see it leading to anything other than a big tory lead by the next election though. She’d be taken apart after a very shot welcoming period of favourable talking up from all “sides”.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    Don’t see it leading to anything other than a big tory lead

    They already have a big lead so there’s nothing to lose. She’ll appeal to both the northern working classes and the metropolitan lefties. The posh chattering classes will hate her due to outright snobbery, but it’s not them the labour party needs to win over. TBH I’d like to see her as leader just so she can lose her temper at PMQs and call Boris a c***. 😄

    Premier Icon Coyote
    Free Member

    I’d like to see her as leader just so she can lose her temper at PMQs and call Boris a c***.

    Yes please!!! 😆

    Premier Icon mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    Are we doing obituaries for Starmer’s career as Leader of Opposition then? I thought it was customary to allow at least one catastrophic election defeat first.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    Are we doing obituaries for Starmer’s career as Leader of Opposition then?

    He should be in the green party TBH, given the sterling job he’s doing at increasing their support.

    Premier Icon ernielynch
    Free Member

    Why vote BNP when the Tories make such a good show of making “others” feel unwelcome here?

    Because the Tory Cabinet is “stuffed” with Black and Asian Cabinet Ministers.

    If you want to equate the Tory Party with a far-right neo-nazi party then you are either a political illiterate, an idiot, or someone who’s taking the piss.

    Still, you won’t be the first on here to make that ridiculous comparison. That’s the problem with an echo chamber which has driven out political diversity, unchecked those that remain make ever more fantastic and ridiculous assertions.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    If you want to equate the Tory Party with a far-right neo-nazi party then you are either a political illiterate, an idiot

    The bar isn’t set very high for nazi comparison in this place. Not that I like to go on about it ( 😂  ) but it wasn’t long ago I was called a nazi appeaser/sympathiser for saying we should probably respect the brexit referendum result.

    Premier Icon ernielynch
    Free Member

    It is very much the equivalent of Trump supporters claiming that anyone who doesn’t agree with them is a communist.

    Somewhere a Trump supporter is probably asking ” why vote communist when you can vote for Joe Biden?”

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    The bar isn’t set very high for nazi comparison in this place. Not that I like to go on about it ( 😂 ) but it wasn’t long ago I was called a nazi appeaser/sympathiser for saying we should probably respect the brexit referendum result.

    And I was accused as being ‘anti-Semitic’ for daring to suggest that Starmer ceded to his (corporate, non-culturally specific) ‘puppeteers’. People will throw slurs around when there is a counter-argument to their own, that they cannot effectively reply to. Paucity of argument leads to such behaviour. Which is why the Labour right could only throw such smears and slander at Corbyn; they had no real effective argument against any of his actual policies, this much is painfully apparent.

    “Tory”, in what way? Can we not get to the point where Labour people we don’t align with aren’t branded “tories”? What is that lazy shorthand for in this case? Pushing for more private company involvement in providing public services?

    Well, basically pushing for pretty much the same kind of policies and political ideologies as held by many in the Conservative party, at a guess. So yes, that would be stuff like privatising public services, making education only accessible to those with money, not paying attention to worker’s unions, not heeding the needs of working people, especially the more vulnerable members of society, and voting for wars with nations that aren’t threatening us at all, under a pretext of lies and deceit, in order to secure oil and weapons sales revenues.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    an idiot

    I didn’t make the claim that you put in your strawman, so I’ll assume that insult was aimed at someone else.

    Paucity of argument leads to such behaviour.

    Oh, FFS. There was too much making of the argument, not too little. Too much explaining what shouldn’t have needed explaining. I should have raised my concerns and then just told you to get knotted as you kept digging deeper. Just leave it.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    And I was accused as being ‘anti-Semitic’ for daring to suggest that Starmer ceded to his (corporate, non-culturally specific) ‘puppeteers’.

    My recollection is that you used a term that is used by some people to invoke an anti-semitic trope. Which isn’t quite the same thing.

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    My recollection is that you used a term that is used by some people to invoke an anti-semitic trope. Which isn’t quite the same thing.

    Well, someone imagined that I did, yet when it was clarified that I didn’t, persisted with the insinuations. So I’ll just see that as an ‘accusation’, because that’s what it is.

    Just leave it.

    I did try, but well, you just couldn’t let it lie, could you? I have no problem with you arguing against my point of view; I won’t have you or anyone insinuating or accusing me of something so abhorrent. As for ‘digging deeper’ the only people doing that is you and Kerley. When all you had to do was acknowledge your mistake, apologise, and move on. And we’d all live happily ever after. But hey. We are where we are.

    Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour Party in 2015. He received a total of £512,417 in donations from that point up to the time of writing.Starmer received few significant political donations prior to this year. However, it is notable that Starmer received a greater amount in donations in 2020 (£708,605) than Corbyn received in five years at the forefront of Labour.Lord Waheed Alli and Robert Latham donated £100,000 to Starmer.Martin Taylor donated £95,000. Lord Clive Hollick and Sir Trevor Chinn donated £50,000.The majority of Starmer’s funding is accounted for by personal donations of this type.In contrast, the majority of the funding Corbyn received since 2015 came from trade unions.Corbyn’s three largest donors were: Unite (£141,618); National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (£50,000); and the Communication Workers Union (£50,249).The largest donation Corbyn received from an individual was £7,000.

    I have no idea of the cultures/religious beliefs those who donated such large sums to Labour under Starmer. But the fact they donated significantly more in just one year alone, than Corbyn got in 5, suggests Starmer has a vested interest in courting those with wealth. I’m going out a limb here, but I’d hazard a guess that Lord Waheed Ali possibly isn’t Jewish…

    Premier Icon ernielynch
    Free Member

    Labour right could only throw such smears and slander at Corbyn

    It’s the new McCarthy style witch-hunt, except instead of accusing everyone you don’t agree with of being communist you accuse them of being racist.

    Everyone is assumed to be racist unless they prove otherwise. Obviously you don’t accept any proof they provide and you just keep repeating the allegation.

    According to stw the ponderance of racism in the UK grows with every new day. The latest breaking news suggests that we are now stuffed with racists. Presumably if this thread is allowed to run its course we will eventually reach a point where everyone in the UK is a racist.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    I did try, but well, you just couldn’t let it lie, could you?

    YOU keep bringing it up. And not just in this thread. Just leave me alone! You managed to shoehorn it into a Pride thread. I mean… what the…!?!

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    Funny isn’t it that so little has happened this week in the world of Starmer that we’ve resorted to discussing discussions we had only a couple of weeks ago. It pretty much says all we need to know about his leadership. Anyone for another round of Rose and Crown-gate? 😄

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    Well, someone imagined that I did, yet when it was clarified that I didn’t, persisted with the insinuations. So I’ll just see that as an ‘accusation’, because that’s what it is.

    Your repeated attempts at playing the victim aren’t very convincing.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Anyone for another round of Rose and Crown-gate?

    Don’t go there, man. It’s like ‘Nam’ on that bowling green

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    YOU keep bringing it up. And not just in this thread. Just leave me alone! You managed to shoehorn it into a Pride thread. I mean… what the…!?!

    YOU keep persisting with the insinuation. All you have to do, is accept your mistake, apologise to me, and we can all move on. Very simple. And you’d gain more respect in the process. What’s not to like?

    Your repeated attempts at playing the victim aren’t very convincing.

    I’m not a victim. If people are too bone-headed to admit they were wrong, then what can I do? And please explain why I need to ‘convince’ you of anything? If you can’t see the facts in front of you, again, what can I do? Maybe it’s easier to hide inside an imagined scenario, than admit the truth.

    I had requested that the moderators of this forum deal with posts I found personally offensive. As no action seems to have been taken, I’ll deal with it on here. I have every right to answer false accusations and insinuations against me. More than happy to discuss the nuances involved in how people can have differing perceptions of things, but so far, no-one has done so. So I’ll just consider this the usual ‘smear those you disagree with’ bullshit, and file it under ‘cowardice’. Because that’s what it is.

    Anyone who does what to discuss this further, can PM me. Happy to do that as well. Anyway; git Shabbos und gei gezunt.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    I’m not a victim. If people are too bone-headed to admit they were wrong, then what can I do? And please explain why I need to ‘convince’ you of anything? If you can’t see the facts in front of you, again, what can I do? Maybe it’s easier to hide inside an imagined scenario, than admit the truth.

    If you keep saying the same thing on a public forum, then it would seem fairly obvious that you are trying to convince others of your point of view.

    As for the rest of it, you are presenting your opinion as fact. It isn’t.

    In my opinion, you are wrong for the reasons already set out, so it’s a pity that you continue to be so “bone-headed”, as you put it.

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    Presumably if this thread is allowed to run its course we will eventually reach a point where everyone in the UK is a racist.

    Except Jeremy

    Presumably Bridges wouldn’t need to travel to find racists in the pub to shout at in that scenario

    Premier Icon ernielynch
    Free Member

    Don’t go there, man.

    If the Rose and Crown wasn’t such a long drive I would be there this evening.

    I yearn to sit transfixed listening to a wise elderly regular recall the Strange Tale of the Ramsbottom Flouncer.

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