Viewing 40 posts - 5,001 through 5,040 (of 5,243 total)
  • Sir! Keir! Starmer!
  • Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Can we have an Iraq thread?

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    Can we have an Iraq thread?

    There’s no need, we just need binners to stop bringing it up again and again. For as long as he does, some of us will feel obliged to respond rather than allow it to go unchallenged.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    Do you really think somebody who still enjoys great privilege as the result of something as abhorrent as racial apartheid, should be in a party that claims to be ‘inclusive’?

    Do I think Hodge’s profiteering from Stemcor’s involvement with the SA govt in the 70’s and 80’s was wrong? Absolutely. Do I think that chucking her out of a party for events she had little to do with over 40 years ago will solve anything wrong in the party now? No, I don’t think it will.

    Perhaps chucking her out of the party will make some folk who felt that her attacks on Corbyn were wrong, happy, but I doubt it’ll solve anything.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    a clear vision from Starmer could’ve enthused the membership

    Yes agreed. There is lots of wordy verbiage from him on the economy and routes to recovery out of Covid, and it’s all very worthy, but you’re right It’s not been distilled down to anything approaching “Starmer-ist” or something people can pin down to a set of beliefs. It’s disappointing.

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    He needs some 3 word slogans. Get to 4 words or above and you have lost 80% of the voters.

    The Labour party have just been trounced by the tory party, they need to learn from that and steal from it. Having high integrity or left wings ideals is not going to cut it.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Full Member

    Can you imagine the furore if we buy Israeli drones, the left will have a seizure

    Really? Care to back this up with evidence rather than blanket claims. Bonus points if you actually manage to deal with the minor detail there have already been some purchases. Its almost like you are projecting your simplistic prejudices onto a rather large and diverse group of people.

    As for getting Brits to manufacture American technology, fine by me.

    So you want to pay well over the odds for something we could have brought off the shelf? Although at least for the Apaches we did get them airborne in a reasonable timeframe unlike the SF chinooks.
    What is the value add you are seeing here?

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    Oh wow. Supposedly the ‘hard left’ are cosying up to the conservatives by having a poll done. These centrists are a bit fragile aren’t they, imagine what they’d say if people in their own party called them racists, anti-semites and terrorist sympathisers?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/08/labour-cries-foul-over-union-poll-showing-tories-on-track-to-take-hartlepool

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Full Member

    These centrists are a bit fragile aren’t they,

    I guess its one of those things they are borrowing from the tories. Projecting all their failings onto others.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Or… there really are some on the Left seeking to damage the Labour leader by all means possible. Whether he’s a “centrist” or not. Either way, we can all settle in for a few decades of Tory rule, while a series of Labour leaders get undermined by people who’d rather have Conservative governments than have their “enemies” lead the Labour party. The public won’t vote for this mess, and I see no way to fix it really. Labour needs to be more than one party, but FPTP success is all about unifying disparate groups to vote for one party… as Johnson understands and looks likely to reap the benefit of, as the UKIP/Brexit/Conservative supporters all back his candidate, and likely new MP.

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    Do I think Hodge’s profiteering from Stemcor’s involvement with the SA govt in the 70’s and 80’s was wrong? Absolutely. Do I think that chucking her out of a party for events she had little to do with over 40 years ago will solve anything wrong in the party now? No, I don’t think it will.

    Perhaps chucking her out of the party will make some folk who felt that her attacks on Corbyn were wrong, happy, but I doubt it’ll solve anything.

    Problem is (and it’s a pretty big one), Hodge owes her wealth and political influence purely down to such wrongness. She’s still happy to benefit from her familial ties to that same company, through the dividends from shares she owns. Accusing others of racism is a bit rich, when you’ve profited from actual racism yourself. And that’s before we even get to her inaction on sex abuse, when she was leader of Islington council. In short; she is not a fit and proper person to hold any kind of position in politics, much less be anywhere near power (as she was when a member of Blair’s government, happily voting to bomb the shit out of brown people). You see? Hodge is part of the problem with Labour, and people like that cannot be members of a party that claims to stand against racism, inequality and injustice.

    https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-11-20-dame-margaret-hodge-mp-a-very-british-apartheid-profiteer/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/past-hers-margaret-hodge-might-show-bit-more-humility-10098871.html

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Full Member

    Or… there really are some on the Left seeking to damage the Labour leader by all means possible.

    By the evil deed of, checks notes, publishing a survey? My god how evil. Best they get purged from the party as traitors to the glorious leader.
    Perhaps the “source” should be wondering why the poll went the way it did rather than stoking up internal battles?

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    Really? Care to back this up with evidence rather than blanket claims. Bonus points if you actually manage to deal with the minor detail there have already been some purchases. Its almost like you are projecting your simplistic prejudices onto a rather large and diverse group of people.

    Of course the left would have seizure on this, UK buying and using Israeli technology developed in part to use on Palestinians. They already campaign to boycott peaceful products, how would they react to the UK using the technology? You’d have labour constituency motions to scrap them the moment they came into power the week after the announcement to procure.

    So you want to pay well over the odds for something we could have brought off the shelf? Although at least for the Apaches we did get them airborne in a reasonable timeframe unlike the SF chinooks.
    What is the value add you are seeing here?

    As I understand it the UK longbow variant is different in its capabilities in terms of ISTAR

    These aren’t”off the shelf” products they are made to order together with the supporting kit to keep them airborne

    I personally would like to have the economic multiplier of production in the UK and the ability to keep them in the air from a UK manufacturing base. These aren’t cans of beans, they are complex systems which require a lot of support.

    As the UK (much to the lefts disgust) is a well respected arms exporter the policy might not be a stupid as you state

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    In short; she is not a fit and proper person to hold any kind of position in politics

    Again, she benefitted for something tat she no direct control over, some 30-40 years ago. Likewise How many politicians in places like Wakefield, Rochdale and so on failed to deal with pedophile rings properly, at the very least she’s apologised (multiple times) and given one of the victims £30,000.

    There are many who would accuse Corbyn of similar unfitness; inviting IRA members to house of Commons, actual terrorists and their supporters, just 5 weeks after an IRA bombing that had killed 5 people, only to have Gerry Adams decline to save everyone’s embarrassment.

    But then politics isn’t a knitting circle is it? My sense is that you feel Hodge should be expelled from the party for some sort of revenge for how she spoke about Corbyn. If I were Starmer looking at this, I’d rather have Hodge in the tent shouting out than the opposite.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    As the UK (much to the lefts disgust) is a well respected arms exporter

    “Respected” in what sense?

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    In that the stuff the UK makes is really, really good at killing people

    Stop talking Britain down, you communist!

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    at the very least she’s apologised (multiple times) and given one of the victims £30,000.

    Oh that’s alright then. An incredibly wealthy woman, giving away what amounts to less than half her annual commons salary (which is a fraction of her annual income), and less than the dividends she was receiving from her stake in a company that profited from racist apartheid. Absolves her of all sins. Obviously.

    There are many who would accuse Corbyn of similar unfitness

    Oh I’m sure there are. Your own misinformed post demonstrates that perfectly.

    If I were Starmer looking at this, I’d rather have Hodge in the tent shouting out than the opposite.

    You should let the BNP know. They might send you some flowers.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    You should let the BNP know. They might send you some flowers.

    haha, what a card you are, how the winter nights must fly by, what was that people were saying about how to attract people to the Labour Party?

    Oh yeah, insult them, that’ll work every time .

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Full Member

    Of course the left would have seizure on this

    No I am interested in actual facts rather than your speculation. That you struggle to distinguish between Labour and the left tends to indicate your speculation is going to be ill informed. I notice you failed to get the bonus points for dealing with the fact the UK already purchases varied specialist military equipment from Israel.

    As I understand it the UK longbow variant is different in its capabilities in terms of ISTAR

    Which is a case for a different outfitting and not building them from scratch at massive cost.

    These aren’t cans of beans, they are complex systems which require a lot of support.

    Thank you for explaining it to me in simple terms. Your expertise in the subject is greatly appreciated. Could you please continue sharing your expert knowledge in terms of maybe dry dog food with regards to what actually happened with Westland despite the massive amounts of cash thrown their way?

    As the UK (much to the lefts disgust) is a well respected arms exporter the policy might not be a stupid as you state

    If you cast your mind back you might note I asked what was the end goal and gave multiple scenarios? In terms of being well respected I am not quite so sure of that. There is some good gear being produced (AI for example) but there is also a ton of absolute shite which only gets sold thanks to massive bribes or only has the UK as a user. It is those which the value add is extremely unclear.

    Premier Icon bridges
    Free Member

    Oh, you missed the reference. Never mind.

    Premier Icon TheLittlestHobo
    Free Member

    Really want him to succeed. I haven’t voted for quite a while now based on the fact i feel like its like choosing from eating different flavors of turd.

    Anyhow, i must say i was very disappointed in his advertorial yesterday evening blowing smoke up the NHS arse. I dont want someone stood in front of a tv screen, talking all sincere about the good work the nurses are doing. We had the public clapping the NHS for weeks and then having street parties to celebrate for gods sake. How his mother was a nurse and his wife works in the NHS. How he values them and will give them everything they deserve. This is the kind of bullshit that gave us £250m per week if we vote for Brexit.

    I want to hear who is getting taxed more and how they are going to balance books based on brexit, covid and all the austerity we have had. False promises with no way of backing them up just makes him a liar. Looks like i am tearing up another voting slip 🙁

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    how they are going to balance books based on brexit, covid and all the austerity we have had

    Serious question, why do you want to balance the books?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    The problem with the shit sandwich analogy is that you still get one of the options even if you don’t choose one.

    Premier Icon grum
    Free Member

    Or… there really are some on the Left seeking to damage the Labour leader by all means possible.

    Seriously, commissioning a survation poll is now evidence of the left’s treachery?

    Rather than whining because the nasty poll didn’t say nice things why not use it as motivation to actually pull your bloody finger out and stop being so wet. Pathetic.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    It’s not just a poll. It’s constant attacks on the party leader on the eve of elections. It’s sitting Labour councillors rallying behind a joke party designed purely to damage the Labour Party and with a ‘till recently Labour MP as its candidate. The thing is, when Starmer goes, the next leader gets all this as well, no matter where they sit in the political spectrum of the party. Labour will never unite, will it.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Full Member

    It’s not just a poll. It’s constant attacks on the party leader on the eve of elections.

    Can you give examples of some of these other attacks? Stating that he isnt exactly making an impact isnt really an attack its a statement of fact.
    Are you wanting nothing but praise for the glorious leader? Seems a bit, well, cultish really.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Are you wanting nothing but praise for the glorious leader?

    Assuming you read what I post here, you’ll know otherwise.

    Premier Icon rone
    Free Member

    Seriously, commissioning a survation poll is now evidence of the left’s treachery?

    Yeah – ridiculous.

    The poll was commissioned to test the popularity of things that are hugely relevant to the electorate, and particularly how out of touch Labour are getting towards the working class.

    Something that the Tories will run away with if unchecked.

    Labour will not get anywhere without the Left. This is not going into heads of certain people.

    Premier Icon grum
    Free Member

    It’s constant attacks on the party leader on the eve of elections

    I’m not seeing that, what are these constant attacks?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    I’m not seeing that, what are these constant attacks?

    Really?!? Lucky you.

    Labour will not get anywhere without the Left.

    I agree 100%

    Keep that thought process unwinding…

    Premier Icon rone
    Free Member

    I want to hear who is getting taxed more and how they are going to balance books

    Balanced books are a nonsense from a governmental point of view. Government spends into the economy the private sector thrives.

    Government balances the books the economy contracts as money is taken out of circulation. (Providing inflation is not too high. We’re still at 0.7%. Target of 2%)

    The issue is the Tories will get away with spending but Labour will be slammed. This is why the narrative should be a balanced economy not balanced books. (I.e full employment, Job, guarantee, massive infrastructure spending etc).

    Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    binners
    Member
    your air of superiority

    Heal thyself!

    Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    Libya was just as much a **** up as Iraq but Cameron doesn’t get as much pelters for that – nor Obama.

    The left is self destructive and overly self critical.

    I’m not sticking up for Blair, that list of achievements bar a few is bolx and a list that the Tories could easily write about their time in power.

    Saying that I’d take Starmer over the Tories all day. I feel like leaving the country because of the corrupt, immoral shit show running the country.

    BUT I think Starmer won’t get anywhere by trying to out centre them, he needs to think out of the box a bit.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    The left is self destructive and overly self critical.

    Bollocks. The left didn’t call their centrist colleagues racists and terrorist sympathisers. The left never worked behind the scenes to lose an election. The left never declared that they wouldn’t support a labour govt if elected. The ‘left’ are not the problem.

    Premier Icon inkster
    Free Member

    This thread is just chewing the cud really. I can’t see what the Labour party can do until the covid situation recedes, damned if they do, damned if they don’t sort of thing.

    The political battle is going to be fought on the funeral pyre of Brexit. As much as it might be a disappointment to those on the left of the party, the best hope for Labour will be to be uber centralist. There’s going to be an enormous constituency of disgruntled business persons who, if engaged with will lend enormous credibility to the labour party and go some way towards flipping the script with regards percieved fiscal responsibility.

    The left’s best hope is to shut up for the meantime and let the Labour party fight on a centrist platform and hope that he delivers something more progressive once and if he gets into office. Kind of like what’s just happened in America.

    Trump wasn’t defeated by the progressive’s, he was defeated by the ultimate centrist. Now he is in the White House hes delivering an agende more in line with AOC and the like. Politics has never been about delivering on a manifesto, It has always been about getting into office then doing what you want.

    Although I do wish Starmer would take a leaf out of Biden’s book and hide in his basement. Every time I see him in front of the camera he manages to make thinks worse. I think he would be more effective as an invisible man meme, sometimes you say it beat when you say nothing at all. After all, hiding in a fridge never hurt Boris did it.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Full Member

    This thread is just chewing the cud really. I can’t see what the Labour party can do until the covid situation recedes, damned if they do, damned if they don’t sort of thing.

    100% this

    Johnson & Starmer are passengers at this point

    Johnsons lies over NI are biting him in the arse
    And this was the right thing for Starmer to say

    He needs to hammer that home

    Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    Bollocks. The left didn’t call their centrist colleagues racists and terrorist sympathisers. The left never worked behind the scenes to lose an election. The left never declared that they wouldn’t support a labour govt if elected. The ‘left’ are not the problem.

    The left as in left of the Tories.

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    Politics has never been about delivering on a manifesto, It has always been about getting into office then doing what you want.

    Exactly, a point that seems to be missed by the perfections in this thread.

    – Do whatever you need to to get into power, do whatever you want once in power.

    That is what the tories have done forever. Is anyone checking off against what they have delivered against their manifesto and then basing their vote on what % of stuff was achieved, No they haven’t.

    Premier Icon TheLittlestHobo
    Free Member

    singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/sir-kier-starmer/page/126/#post-11834721

    Because I have 2 kids and I want them to live in a U.K. which isn’t in such huge debt

    Serious question, why do you want us to be in debt? I remember the last time labour were in charge. They left a message saying coffers were empty, good luck! Different flavours of turd

    Premier Icon fadda
    Full Member

    They left a message saying coffers were empty, good luck!

    Did this actually happen?

    I always thought it was a Tory fabrication, to excuse what came next and blame it on someone else?

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    Did this actually happen?

    I always thought it was a Tory fabrication, to excuse what came next and blame it on someone else?

    Nope, the idiot actually wrote the note

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